Term Replacement: "Sanity"

[TemporalLich]

If Naive is okay (which I feel it is), we can have Cynical and Naive under the new reliabilities system, making the new reliabilities Reliable, Inverse, Cynical, Naive, and Random.

[DrippingGoofball]

Could Corrupt work for "Inverse?"

[TemporalLich]

Could Corrupt work for "Inverse?"

I mean sure but Inverse gets the point across better.

Corrupt is more flavorful, while Inverse is more clear.

[Psyche]

i like corrupt but i have to agree that it's insufficiently clear

[TemporalLich]

The current terms for Reliabilities:

Reliable - works as normal
Inverse - opposite result or opposite effect
Cynical - incriminating result or excessive effect
Naive - clearing result or no effect
Random - random result or random effect
Unreliable - 50% reliable, 50% inverse (used for Doctor as a holdover from the first Reliabilities system)

[Psyche]

actually corrupt works just fine there i think

[vonflare]

this is just pathetic

[vonflare]

if someone brings Betrayal at the House on the Hill to a scummeet would you insist on calling the sanity mechanic Reliability? and people don't go insane, they go Unreliable? lmao

[Ythan]

I do love Betrayal.

[Psyche]

is that game really so popular that you can reference it like that

[vonflare]

I do love Betrayal.

ya its a great game if frequently imbalanced due to reasons outside the players' control
works best with a large group of people with varying degrees of experience with the game

[Psyche]

but how does anyone engage with your reactionary whining if they don't already know about the game

[Ythan]

I do love Betrayal.

ya its a great game if frequently imbalanced due to reasons outside the players' control
works best with a large group of people with varying degrees of experience with the game

I think we'd call it swingy rather than fully imbalanced, unless you mean the characters, which imo is somewhat better.

[vonflare]

but how does anyone engage with your reactionary whining if they don't already know about the game

People can do whatever they want
I dont care if they engage with my reactionary whining

@ythan
My first instinct was ‘I dont find the characters that unbalanced’ but now that I think about it the red guy is definitely op
It’s just that the game is so swingy it doesn’t feel like the character choice has an overwhelming impact, at least not more so than the chosen Haunt
But that’s fine since betrayal is more of a story game than a hardcore strategy experience

[Cheetory6]

if someone brings Betrayal at the House on the Hill to a scummeet would you insist on calling the sanity mechanic Reliability? and people don't go insane, they go Unreliable? lmao

there have been critiques of the horror genre's over-reliance on mental illness as an evil thing being at least a little problematic but then you're just going to post a meme and say "lol agree to disagree" while bemoaning why people aren't engaging civilly with you so one may wonder "keely why are you making this post at all"
to which one may respond "yeah fair enough sorry nvm".

[TemporalLich]

but how does anyone engage with your reactionary whining if they don't already know about the game

Betrayal at the House on the Hill is not the only game with a Sanity mechanic. I am not familiar with that game however.

Pretty much anything related to the Cthulhu Mythos will have Sanity referenced in some way, an example I will list of this is Call of Cthulhu.

Tangentially related would be World of Darkness's Derangements, where losing your Humanity will cause mental illness.

The main argument that would keep the aforementioned Sanity systems as non-problematic but also say that Mafia's Sanity system is problematic is that the aforementioned systems are much more ingrained in mental health while Mafia's Sanities can be replaced with a Reliabilities system without undercutting the underlying Crunch meaning (the Fluff of "you're not thinking straight" was cut out but that's not a good take). Also I don't think Derangements are unproblematic, especially considering it has the unfortunate implication that mentally ill people are morally bad people (I am pretty sure everyone can agree that is a bad take).

and if we got rid of the entire concept of Sanity we'd undercut the entire subgenre of Psychological Horror.

[Ythan]

Do we find horror based in the creator's fear of their own tenuous sanity more acceptable than insanity used as a plot device solely for its narrative convenience? Has a bearing on at least one of the properties under discussion.

[Cheetory6]

I personally don't feel an imperative to change the flavouring of the roles in mafia, but I'm not going to knock someone who does feel that way or is trying to be proactive in case someone may be uncomfortable with them.
Also wouldn't personally advocate for removing those tropes from horror, but it is probably valuable to at least know about them and be able to critically understand how the media we consumes tends towards otherizing people with disabilities/mental health problems.

I just think the attitude of coming in here and shitting on people who are trying to be helpful is garbage and toxic.

[Ythan]

Yeah.

[TemporalLich]

So yeah, the main reason Mafia's Sanity system is problematic are the implications known as "you're not thinking straight" and "people with poor mental health will do self-destructive or counterproductive acts".

The Reliabilities system keeps the Crunch intact (Inverse is still "opposite of expected" but no longer Insane).

Criticism is important but I think vonflare is bordering on concern trolling in 107.

[Nero Cain]

Echoing what others have said I don't think Paranoid or Naive are really mental health terms.

I'm not sure why we just don't use experienced/inexperienced to replace sane/insane. I also thought about vet/rookie but we'd have to change the other vet role that does ???? As an alternative to vet we could also use some other form of police rank.

Maybe a "corrupted cop" gets inno on scum/guilty on town.

[TemporalLich]

Echoing what others have said I don't think Paranoid or Naive are really mental health terms.

I'm not sure why we just don't use experienced/inexperienced to replace sane/insane. I also thought about vet/rookie but we'd have to change the other vet role that does ???? As an alternative to vet we could also use some other form of police rank.

Maybe a "corrupted cop" gets inno on scum/guilty on town.

I'm not beholden to "Paranoid" and in fact Paranoid Gun Owner (which I would want Sentry to be the term and is just a Reflexive Vigilante anyway) is the main impetus for me to have a distaste for Paranoid specifically.

Rookie sounds a lot like Novice and Veteran is kinda already used as a PGO alias (though that's

more

problematic than PGO).

I don't really like experienced/inexperienced as the term, and I think inexperienced cop makes a lot more sense for a Parity Cop (the one that can't tell which result corresponds to a positive or negative result - in Reliability terms this would be a Cop that knows they are either Reliable or Inverse) than an Inverse Cop.

Corrupt is more flavorful and less clear than Inverse. A Corrupt Cop could also be seen as a Combined Cop Vigilante that thinks they are a Cop, for example.

[Nero Cain]

I feel like there are so many new roles since I started playing or maybe we just used very basic ones when we started.

[Cheetory6]

what about clumsy cop?

[TemporalLich]

what about clumsy cop?

no thanks

you'd have to justify how a clumsy doctor is a doctor who kills their patients