Do gendered role names make sense?
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Do gendered role names make sense?
I am mostly talking about King and Prince here, though Mailman, Strongman, and Godfather technically count as well.
Prince was my hasty term replacement for L-wordproof (which was taken from One Night Ultimate Werewolf), and I don't feel it's a good role name.
King is a very established role in the Kingmaker variant.
Gender does not matter (and should not matter - otherwise the mod is both sexist and a bad mod) in rands, does it follow that it should not matter in role cards or is the player/character barrier strong enough for this to be a non-issue?
For King the gender-neutral term is Monarch. For Prince the gender-neutral term is Heir. For Mailman we have Courier. Strongman and Godfather don't really have good gender-neutral name equivalents however.time will end- joqiza
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Strongarm to me means to use physical force for coercion.
yeah Godfather is kinda a movie name.In post 2, Infinity 324 wrote:These are good suggestions, godfather probably has to stay as is
I think Mafia Boss (Don actually would not work for this purpose believe it or not) could work if Godfather tends to be seen as misgendering however.Last edited by TemporalLich on Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.time will end- Infinity 324
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Lots of board games assign genders to different abilities in a haphazard way with no clear pattern and I think that's fine. You can roleplay outside of your own gender a little bit.
However, the way gender is assigned to mafia roles seems kind of patterned and is hard not to view as having some patriarchal undertones.
It's unfortunate if godfather seems like the one that absolutely can't change since it's an extremely powerful role and that makes it kind of a glass ceiling."Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- TemporalLich
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We could use Eliminateproof for the former L-wordproof if you want something ending in -proof instead of a elimination term agnostic name
Godfather is the one that does have a literal gender-neutral version (Godparent) but it will ruin the movie reference and honestly Mafia Boss makes more sense (or if it doesn't need to be seen as the big leader of it all, Caporegime). I would not consider Godfather absolutely locked into the current name especially considering Godfather was deNormalized.
And yeah it kinda feels patriarchal but I'm more considering removing gendered role names to avoid the likelihood of people feeling misgendered by their Role PM.time will end- Ircher
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eliminationproof
It's a rare role it can be long"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"- TemporalLich
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all I know is that I really do want to want to revisit the L-word term replacements but that's a topic for another thread.
Eliminationproof is the "proper" term replacement of L-wordproof but I'm not sure how many elimination terms are Normal and it would result in potentially having roles named Exileproof, Yeetproof, Fadeproof, Executionproof, and Blastproof in Themes at leasttime will end- joqiza
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Call it the Babbacombe
"John Babbacombe Lee was an Englishman famous for surviving three attempts to hang him for murder." ... "He became popularly known as 'the man they couldn't hang.'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Babbacombe_Lee- Jingle
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i'm p sure i've *only* seen mailman as mailman, and ahve never (or at least rarely) seen messengerShowHiatus once more.
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viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79835 like this oneShowHiatus once more.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
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For Strongman I feel a good solution is to modifierize it into Strong (basically Strong-Willed but not interfering with redirections - for all purposes in a Normal game Strong and Strong-Willed are the same modifier), though you'd have a Strong Goon for the 1:1 replacement (as you're modifying the factional kill).time will end- Ircher
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Honestly, do we need to distinguish between Strongman and strong-willed? I find it very confusing that we have two terms for two very similar but slightly different roles/modifier.- TemporalLich
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Strongman is a role and Strong-Willed is a modifier but I can see Strong-Willed prevaling as Strongman is in the same boat as SD-Bomber, both might need term replacement but both can be expressed with modifiers. Though Strong-Willed Goon is kinda a Themey use of modifiers to modify the factional kill.In post 19, Ircher wrote:Honestly, do we need to distinguish between Strongman and strong-willed? I find it very confusing that we have two terms for two very similar but slightly different roles/modifier.
We do need a 1:1 term replacement as I highly doubt the NRG is going to let us modify the factional kill in Normal games, so Strong-Willed Goon might not be Normal anyways.time will end- KittyTacky
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Isn't Ninja normal? How is it not modifying the factional kill?In post 20, TemporalLich wrote:
Strongman is a role and Strong-Willed is a modifier but I can see Strong-Willed prevaling.In post 19, Ircher wrote:Honestly, do we need to distinguish between Strongman and strong-willed? I find it very confusing that we have two terms for two very similar but slightly different roles/modifier.
We do need a 1:1 term replacement as I highly doubt the NRG is going to let us modify the factional kill in Normal games, so Strong-Willed Goon might not be Normal anyways.- Jingle
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Yes... and it does modify the factional kill but that's an intended feature rather than using a loophole to modify the factional kill in ways that the NRG doesn't expect.In post 21, KittyTacky wrote:Isn't Ninja normal? How is it not modifying the factional kill?
I know Strong-Willed as aIn post 22, Jingle wrote:Strong willed actually has a functional difference as well, and is weaker as a modifier.
As a 1:1 you could just take the vig strongman term of Juggernaut.strongerversion of Strongman - unlike Strongman, Strong-Willed prevents redirects as well.
and yeah Juggernaut is a perfect term for Strongman - in fact it's already an alias of that role.time will end- Jingle
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Strong willed explicitly doesn't stop doctor saves, which is arguably more common than redirects. The salient point is that they are in fact different roles.In post 23, TemporalLich wrote:I know Strong-Willed as a stronger version of Strongman - unlike Strongman, Strong-Willed prevents redirects as well.This is a Parachute. - Jingle
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