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Should Votes to No Lim at Evens be Standardised in Normals?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:25 pm
by Not_Mafia
Personally, I think yes, players should have clear expectations of when a hammer will occur ahead of time, without having to wait for mod confirmation.

50% should be the standard, it's impossible for an elimination to occur if half the players are against it, having 50%+1 is unnecessary and simply doesn't make sense

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:59 pm
by TemporalLich
50% should be standard - after all, if there are 50% of people voting No Elim, the day should end in No Elim because with the current votes an elim will not happen.

50%+1 makes sense in plurality - though 50% should be standard for any elim decision in a plurality vote game

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:09 pm
by T3
If it were 50% of people voting that would basically be voting for a no no elim.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:03 pm
by Kerset
edited

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:54 pm
by TemporalLich
considering the alternative is a deadlock, having No Elim be called at 50% in evens is an anti-frustration feature

If half of the alive players are voting No Elim, an elim is not going to happen 90% of the time. The other 10% can be accounted for by making it standard to call No Elim at 50%, because the alternative is very unfun - if it is standardized No Elim can get the proper E-1 warning to avoid quickhammer.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:38 pm
by Ythan
Agreed.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:28 am
by Mizzytastic
Definitely. I had a game I ran be impacted by running it as 50%+1 without knowing 50% was more usual, and it quite likely impacted the outcome of the game. I would have much preferred being told "no, it should be 50%" at the review stage

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:39 am
by Gypyx
50% rounded down i assume?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:39 am
by Mizzytastic
4 players, 3 v sk who had up to that point played a strong game. Requiring 3 for no elim instead of 2 definitely lead the direction for the next day.

I don't mind that it did because those are the rules I played with and it was a normal game so it got checked - I'll be changing them in future games. But it bothered me that the first time I found out that was a weird rule was people mentioning it in the dead thread.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:43 am
by TemporalLich
In post 7, Gypyx wrote:50% rounded down i assume?
50% rounded up, as opposed to 50% rounded down plus 1 for elimination.

If there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 to eliminate, and 7 to no eliminate.

If there are 12 players alive, it takes 7 to eliminate, and 6 to no eliminate.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:06 am
by KittyTacky
Yeah, better than sitting there and waiting it out if the no-lim voters are determined to no-lim so you can't convince them otherwise and nobody else wants to hammer the NL.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:23 pm
by MathBlade
I think No elim should be hammered the moment a elim cannot be obtained regardless of normal or theme.
Anytime an elimination cannot be done then the day should immediately end barring a theme mechanic that has to play out.

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:02 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
What if the players would, with the day not ending, realize that player X is scum, and would thus cause player X to be executed?

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:19 pm
by Ythan
I don't understand how your theoretical situation comes up could you explain how it would be different with town?

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:21 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
Could you rephrase your question? I don't understand how my theoretical had to do with town, unless you meant that the players realize that Player X is town, in which case.. the players still wouldn't vote them..

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:23 pm
by Ythan
In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:What if the players would, with the day not ending, realize that player X is scum, and would thus cause player X to be executed?

What hypothetical situation are you responding to here?

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:27 pm
by Not_Mafia
In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:What if the players would, with the day not ending, realize that player X is scum, and would thus cause player X to be executed?


What if after a town aligned player Y is hammered, the other players realise that player X is scum and would thus eliminate player X instead?

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:25 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
In post 16, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:What if the players would, with the day not ending, realize that player X is scum, and would thus cause player X to be executed?


What if after a town aligned player Y is hammered, the other players realise that player X is scum and would thus eliminate player X instead?


Then they execute player x tomorrow. They don't get to un-execute player y just because it was bad.

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:25 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
In post 15, Ythan wrote:
In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:What if the players would, with the day not ending, realize that player X is scum, and would thus cause player X to be executed?

What hypothetical situation are you responding to here?


The situation in which the players have voted for, with a majority, to no-execute.

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:27 pm
by Ythan
In post 18, Jake The Wolfie wrote:
In post 15, Ythan wrote:
In post 12, Jake The Wolfie wrote:What if the players would, with the day not ending, realize that player X is scum, and would thus cause player X to be executed?

What hypothetical situation are you responding to here?


The situation in which the players have voted for, with a majority, to no-execute.

Why would the day not end??

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:33 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
Because a majoirty voting to no-execute now might later want to vote player x, and we cannot be sure of whether or not they want the day to end.

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:55 pm
by Ythan
Uh, no? Am I crazy? Or is it just no here?

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:56 pm
by Ythan
A majority voting to execute might also change their minds but since when do we stop to double check with everyone voting for a hammered wagon?

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:03 pm
by Jake The Wolfie
We can't be sure whether they're voting no execute because they want the day to end, or because they genuinely want no one to die today, because the alternatives aren't good for them.

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:14 pm
by Ythan
Well I don't follow but if you're being serious hopefully someone else will chime in.