Is it banned to record yourself in a YouTube video talking about the game and to link to that? Afaik that would be allowed so any rule change re: vocaroos should also address that imo
on EM basically i think we just had some umbrella term for outside media like that and eventually we got to the point where the rules basically had 3 tiers:
1. anything goes wrt vocaroos and such
2. "memeing only" (basically <1 min time restrictions)
3. text only
the time restrictions helped with keeping vocaroos from taking over the game but it's worth noting people still found a way to use them to do serious content, one of our players basically came up with this thing where you have everyone ask a bunch of questions in real-time and then you rapidfire responses on a vocaroo in 1 min and post it instantly. we were wild lmao
also no one on EM could actually parse vocaroos in terms of AI for shit, i think they probably misled ppl on alignments more than if we'd just ignored them. but we did have one actual VC mafia player stop by once and she instantly nailed a wolf on his youtube video, so i'm not sure if it's that our vocaroos weren't AI and more that we had no idea what we were doing
In post 25, Menalque wrote:Is it banned to record yourself in a YouTube video talking about the game and to link to that? Afaik that would be allowed so any rule change re: vocaroos should also address that imo
I’d support some form of memeing-only rule I guess
Although I feel you might lose out on certain moments of comedy gold (weren’t the Enter is not upset video/the mastina god of scumplay videos over a minute?)
In post 28, Menalque wrote:I’d support some form of memeing-only rule I guess
Although I feel you might lose out on certain moments of comedy gold (weren’t the Enter is not upset video/the mastina god of scumplay videos over a minute?)
were those inside or outside mafia games?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 28, Menalque wrote:I’d support some form of memeing-only rule I guess
Although I feel you might lose out on certain moments of comedy gold (weren’t the Enter is not upset video/the mastina god of scumplay videos over a minute?)
were those inside or outside mafia games?
Oh in fairness enter is not upset was definitely outside
But I think the mastina one was within a game? It might’ve been after the game I guess, let me check
memeing-only / no ai content seems like a fine rule, kinda like with posting gifs i guess
though i often make readslist in an image format so not sure how much i get to talk here / decide where the line should be drawn
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
another thing you can do as a host is just send out an anonymous questionnaire before the game starts and if anyone says they're not comfortable with vocaroo-content you just axe it. that way they're only allowed if everyone's cool with them.
it's sort of more work on the modding side but when i hosted on EM i liked sending out surveys before game anyway so i could get preferences on how long day/night phases should last
images shouldn't be restricted if they are embed and dont have cryptography/are used to crumb imo.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
I guess I’m coming at this from a perspective of “i think multimedia makes mafia a more fun experience not less, and the solution here is to allow as much as possible while preventing anything game breaking” whereas I feel like others are coming at it more from a perspective of “multimedia inherently challenges the legitimacy of a text-based game and we need to minimise the influence it might have”
For instance, I think GIFs can be AI and should still be allowed and I think using images to crumb should also be permitted
this is strictly about the voice based media that has accessibility issues
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
the base assumption is if you're playing forum mafia, you don't have major issues with sight(i.e. being able to read a lot of posts in a reasonable amount of time).
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
i think the hesitation some have with vocaroos (using vocaroos as a catch-all term for this kind of multimedia content here) is actually not so much about the way it changes the nature of the text-based game but rather the discomfort ppl have with feeling like they have to record and share their voice in games
like i mentioned earlier it's sort of a non-issue here atm but i think koba's coming from it having played on EM where they were much more widespread
like i can attest as someone who played and hosted there that occasionally games would just turn into vocaroo-fests and there was sort of a thing where people were like "cmon post a vocaroo! we wanna hear you!" and i had multiple people express to me privately that it was an aspect of the game that was too personal for them
That seems like a flawed assumption given the existence of text-to-speech programs
But even if we do make that assumption I think that now the issue has come up it should be addressing any other uses of sound in games like YouTube videos/songs etc. Idk, I’m not trying to derail this but I feel like if we wanna change the rules for inclusivity we should take into account other forms of media that could cause problems for people. Or if we’re not gonna do that then I don’t see how just time-limiting the vocaroos and/or requiring a transcript for them doesn’t solve the problem
Pedit: i also think it should probably be prohibited to put pressure on people to make a post which is like, revelatory of their personal identity
to be clear i'm not trying to propose that i know the best way to handle them just trying to share my relevant experience on the issue
Mena this may have been EM-specific but I think it was a thing where even where there wasn't direct pressure to post a vocaroo there was a bit of indirect pressure to "fit in" basically. I'll PM you
In post 40, Menalque wrote:That seems like a flawed assumption given the existence of text-to-speech programs
But even if we do make that assumption I think that now the issue has come up it should be addressing any other uses of sound in games like YouTube videos/songs etc. Idk, I’m not trying to derail this but I feel like if we wanna change the rules for inclusivity we should take into account other forms of media that could cause problems for people. Or if we’re not gonna do that then I don’t see how just time-limiting the vocaroos and/or requiring a transcript for them doesn’t solve the problem
Pedit: i also think it should probably be prohibited to put pressure on people to make a post which is like, revelatory of their personal identity
text to speech is a wildly inefficient way to play forum mafia when the games get huge. a Light game could surely have these kind of restrictions but we should not be looking at text to speech as a solution to Normal/Normal-Adjacent games that get extremely large.
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
Sorry, may have been unclear, my point was that we may already have people who play using text-to-speech programs or if they wanted to join and had a program already then images/videos would be non-inclusive for those users
I wasn’t suggesting that we try to implement our own text-to-speech program via the site, but that maybe we should start including descriptive square bracket text when posting images/gifs/videos
I think images/vocaroos/other types of files that might be less accessible than text should be left for memeing or other non-serious posts - I'd say discourage them from being used to give reads or be used in strongly AI ways. I like memey images in posts but "MS Paint" Mafia is themey.
And if they are on something that is time-limited, consider that a violation of the editing/deleting messages in Mafia games rule.
External files also technically break the discussion of ongoing games rule - image hosting sites and youtube links should be fine for meme purposes.
Alt text can easily be abused to use cryptography.
tl;dr vocaroos and images are good for memes, not when they're heavily AI and not something you can comment out - also making vocaroos about ongoing games is discussing ongoing games and is not okay.
In post 45, TemporalLich wrote:I think images/vocaroos/other types of files that might be less accessible than text should be left for memeing or other non-serious posts - I'd say discourage them from being used to give reads or be used in strongly AI ways. I like memey images in posts but "MS Paint" Mafia is themey.
And if they are on something that is time-limited, consider that a violation of the editing/deleting messages in Mafia games rule.
External files also technically break the discussion of ongoing games rule - image hosting sites and youtube links should be fine for meme purposes.
Alt text can easily be abused to use cryptography.
tl;dr vocaroos and images are good for memes, not when they're heavily AI and not something you can comment out - also making vocaroos about ongoing games is discussing ongoing games and is not okay.
info graphs and funny meme diagrams are positive aspects of the forums. Do you want to take that away from Bingle?
retired
"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
"Koba doesn't really have a scumrange/townrange, Koba will kill your pet cat to win a game" ~Pooky
