Why is the Mini Theme Queue unpopular?

[MURDERCAT]

The list mods usually back each other up if one goes VLA

[skitter30]

I feel like this is a recurring problem for this queue, there's delays like this fairly often

[Gamma Emerald]

There was a time where iirc Lilith was the designated “backup list mod” on top of each queue having one

[zoraster]

singer used to be the backup listmod. I'm looking into this, thanks everyone. in the meantime I'll get one of the other listmods to launch the game.

[Lukewarm]

Welp - Turns out I was wrong, and the game that I was checking back for was not even next in line :/

As someone with no experience, there are a couple things that I would suggest trying, to see if they could help the queue run more smoothly:

Like we already mentioned, making sure that games are launched in a timely manner - a 6 day wait for a game to launch seems egregious - I know that the listmods have lives, but if the list mod is going to be AWOL that long, they should be required to let another mod know they need someone to look after their queue

Secondly, I think that having a "games in queue" list would help from a sign up perspective. This is a very selfish request based off of this most recent experience, but not having it clearly laid out certainly made my personal attempts at using the queue not very user friendly :/

Finally, I think that the queue might benefit from having two separate slots that have different requirements, similar to the way it is done in the open queue, so basically, games that are more likely to fill quickly can go through the second slot. I am unsure what the exact qualifications should be for that slot, but possibly something along the lines of a game having the maximum number of pre-ins could work.

That could address a few things that I have seen mentioned by other people in the the thread. It would incentivize people who want to mod mini theme games to make more detailed posts about their game in the "Upcoming Game Advertisements" page, helping address the "lack of information" issue Something_Smart mentioned in post 1

The more detailed information would also help people decide if it is a set-up they are interested in, helping drum up a bit of anticipation for their game - which in turn gets them more pre-ins, and as a result lets the game use the faster slot and helps their game avoid getting behind two games that both take a month+ to fill, like Skitter mentioned in 34

And I think that a game starting with 6 preins is almost certainly going to launch more quickly anyways - but it will also give the queue a niche that other people mentioned this queue lacking. . The queue being a place where a game starts off half filled already would give it a niche to help draw people to it. Maybe this makes me part of the problem, but I personally don't like signing up for games that are less then half full already. A game that is half full already allows me to gauge how I feel about a lobby before I sign up, and a change like this would give this queue something that would draw me personally to it in the future

[Ircher]

I think these are some good suggestions, but I'm not sure that the preins thing would work. Primarily, I think there would be logistical challenges with monitoring that and all. I still think it's an interesting perspective.

The queue could probably benefit from a rule where games are automatically pulled if they don't have enough slots filled. Maybe they get two weeks to get at least half the slots filled and then another week or two to get the remaining slots filled.

[MURDERCAT]

Doesn't Lilith do that in the micro queue?

[Cabd]

The queue could probably benefit from a rule where games are automatically pulled if they don't have enough slots filled.

At one point these rules existed for pretty much every single queue out there but they were never enforced properly because it was really awkward to the moderators but I do agree that they need to come back and be enforced.

[zoraster]

Generally speaking pulling games that don't fill is something we have done in the past when we've had a surplus of moderators that are being held up by one or two unpopular games.

You can find a very different era back before I was even a listmod: 2010 and 2011

EDIT: Oh and a fairly impassioned argument for the limits here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18792

But times change and we've largely been about finding more mods in the past few years.

[Isis]

All of our queues pull games still. I'm not sure what you're saying exactly?
I've definitely observed queue states where, even though there are fewer mods than players these days, the fastest way to fill a game is/would be pulling an unpopular game from queue, the prospect of diminished wait time incentivizing a mod to join the queue, and the new game filling.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I think for the Thimi queue, you should either remove the pre-in limit, or raise it to be some number x less than however many slots you have in the game, say 3.

[Flea The Magician]

Just going to add if people have an open game they want to play, I am more than happy to add it to the queue, MH allowing.
I'm always happy to mod.

[Lukewarm]

For an outsiders perspective, there is something wrong with that queue, more then just "there has to be a slowest queue"

Like, that Hectic game filled in like 6 hours after it went live into sign ups. And the game that was keeping it from going moving forward went into sign ups on May 9th, then finally filled on June 16th.

I know that Hectic's game filling was a special case, given him having pulled it previously, but a game sitting in sign ups for 38 days holding up a game that had a whole lobby's worth of people waiting to play it seems like evidence enough that there is something wrong :/

I kinda like my slot 2 idea. I really like the way it is implemented in the Open Queue - hats off to who ever made that decision

Spoiler: 2nd slot

I do not know enough to feel like I can confidently say what is the best way to determine what games should go in the second slot.

Having some amount of pre-ins seems like an option - Like a mod /in to mod, and once they reach 6 pre-ins they quote their original /in and add
"I now have X number of pre-ins
/in slot 2"

The biggest issue that I can see with this, is that the listmod will likely just have to take someone's word that they have that number of pre-ins, so it would be an honor system

But if that kills the idea, then it could be based on some other criteria. Like, it could be based on the mod advertising their game before it goes into sign up. Like if they make a detailed post / description in the "Upcoming Games" thread a week+ before putting it into the thread, then they can /in for slot 2

But even if the 2nd slot idea is DoA for some reason that from just a player's perspective I don't understand, I think that someone should be trying to fix what ever leads to the situation of games which take a long time to fill are holding back games that there are people anticipating. Saying, that there is actually just nothing that needs to be fixed here seems disingenuous

[Lukewarm]

I just went back and looked through the last several games in that queue, here they are in order

Astral Deck (5/6 preins) filled in 4 days

Owners Market Blitz (0/6) -

filled after 38 Days

Cop mania (0/6 preins) -

pulled after 28 days

Battle of Calculasia (6/6 pre-ins)- filled in 2 days

Silent Star 4 (actually like 10/6 preins ) -filled in 6 hours

Cop Mania and Owners Market were in sign-ups simultaneously as well.

The fact that those 2 games were allowed to clog up both queue slots for a month is not good, and the fact that the other games were able to fill up fairly quickly shows that there are people wanting to play mini themes - but the way the queue slots are being managed is a clearly a factor in games not firing from that queue.

Now that I am actually looking at the numbers, maybe just more aggressively pulling games would be an adequate solution.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I like Lukewarms idea.

[Kerset]

I just went back and looked through the last several games in that queue, here they are in order

Astral Deck (5/6 preins) filled in 4 days

CLOSED

Owners Market Blitz (0/6) -

filled after 38 Days

OPEN

Cop mania (0/6 preins) -

pulled after 28 days

SEMIOPEN

Battle of Calculasia (6/6 pre-ins)- filled in 2 days

CLOSED

Silent Star 4 (actually like 10/6 preins ) -filled in 6 hours

CLOSED

Cop Mania and Owners Market were in sign-ups simultaneously as well.

The fact that those 2 games were allowed to clog up both queue slots for a month is not good, and the fact that the other games were able to fill up fairly quickly shows that there are people wanting to play mini themes - but the way the queue slots are being managed is a clearly a factor in games not firing from that queue.

Now that I am actually looking at the numbers, maybe just more aggressively pulling games would be an adequate solution.

Maybe they took longer time to fill, because they were not closed setups? There is actually an indicator that people are less likely to join a game, if they know the setup beforehand.

[MURDERCAT]

Isn't astral deck at least semi open?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Yeah, it was! However, there were a few collaborators on that deck who, presumably (not me), wanted to play. I think at least 6 - 8.

[Gamma Emerald]

singer used to be the backup listmod. I'm looking into this, thanks everyone. in the meantime I'll get one of the other listmods to launch the game.

ah, thanks for the correction on my part

[Cabd]

Tarot appears to have filled in <24 hours as well.

[MURDERCAT]

Hopefully mine fills as well

[Guillotina]

I just went back and looked through the last several games in that queue, here they are in order

Astral Deck (5/6 preins) filled in 4 days

Owners Market Blitz (0/6) -

filled after 38 Days

Cop mania (0/6 preins) -

pulled after 28 days

Battle of Calculasia (6/6 pre-ins)- filled in 2 days

Silent Star 4 (actually like 10/6 preins ) -filled in 6 hours

Cop Mania and Owners Market were in sign-ups simultaneously as well.

The fact that those 2 games were allowed to clog up both queue slots for a month is not good, and the fact that the other games were able to fill up fairly quickly shows that there are people wanting to play mini themes - but the way the queue slots are being managed is a clearly a factor in games not firing from that queue.

Now that I am actually looking at the numbers, maybe just more aggressively pulling games would be an adequate solution.

I agree. I think no mini game should be on queue for more than two weeks. If our game does not fill in two weeks then there is no interest, I don't see why I'd feel the right to hold the queue hostage if there is no interest in my game.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Yeah, it was! However, there were a few collaborators on that deck who, presumably (not me), wanted to play. I think at least 6 - 8.

I would like to apolozige, after re-reading this it feels like I was trying to be mean. I'm sorry if I came off like that.

[Dunnstral]

The last 4 games that I've signed up for in the open game queue have all been pulled.

It's been almost a month since a game has actually filled. Around 28 days

[Dunnstral]

Page top for front of mini theme queue right now is dated July 2nd.

Page top for front of open game queue is dated June 22nd.

Both are near the end of the page, this is a rough approximation for how fast each queue is moving.

I'd say that the open game queue is really struggling right now.