Let's Discuss the Hyperpost Meta

[DkKoba]

Yes, *I* am here to talk about hyperposting.

After a loss in a recent game where several players lost motivation - I have realized something. That game had *multiple* players post *hundreds* of posts throughout the game, myself included.


This kind of meta is what alienates people who do not have time to keep up with threads or play constantly, and can even ruin games.


I did post some tips on how to keep up from my experience replacing into very post count heavy games which I will quote here:

re: people talking about not being able to keep up as town :

try to just focus on the recent activity strictly and then go from there. i myself did this when replacing in, and then referenced the content i missed over time when needed by doing ISO searches.

you dont need the whole game, you just need the meaty part of the conversations.
at worst, if you say something that is wrong/out of date, they can correct you and you'll be able to have a specfic area to reread to update yourself.

If everyone did this, it would make players who struggle to keep up help raise the overall townplay.

tl;dr: use the iso tool and only read recent stuff to stay at least somewhat relevant. it also helps when youre town to show you are trying to stay engaged and are helping contribute to a solve. if you have a part wrong because you didnt read it, another player in the game can always quote you and correct you.


that being said, there should be a tool to only see posts where people quoted you. that would be cool.


I have been doing this in games i replace into that have significant content and it's worked well (i was 2/3 correct on scum most of the game and even reached a proper PoE at the end without ever reading much of day 1)

Highly recommended.

(On top of this, if it is a mechanics heavy game, reading the OP and catching up on mechanics after you've had time to

townslip

get acquainted in thread is also a good idea.



Now, onto actual solutions:

I think that it is time that games start instituting post caps, particularly Normal and Newbie game. Not quite a geriatric post cap - but not allow a player to post several hundred times within 1 dayphase.

I'm making this thread as an open discussion on this topic as I think it is an important part of current meta that is causing players to not want to play/reducing the quality of games.

[Ircher]

Relevant thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72279&hilit=hyperposting

I actually cannot believe that thread was made back in 2017. I thought it was more recent.

[DkKoba]

Relevant thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=72279&hilit=hyperposting

I actually cannot believe that thread was made back in 2017. I thought it was more recent.

even that thread reached 1k posts.. incredible.

[RH9]

I think that maybe there should be a Post Limit where each player is only allowed 25 Posts per Real Life Day.
If they post more than that, the excess posts will be deducted from the subsequent Real Life Day's Post Limit.

[DkKoba]

I think that maybe there should be a Post Cap where each player is only allowed 25 posts per Real Life Day.

This is something I was thinking myself, I want to clear it with Implosion but the next game I play in the Normal queue I would like to potentially try out a post cap that is higher than geriatric, but still makes it difficult to hyper post.


In my experience on Epicmafia forum games, where we are probably some of the most egregious hyper posters due to our chat mafia history, just the existence of a post cap was a psychological barrier enough to force players to think about what they're posting and how much they are posting. The cap would be set to what the average post count of previous games were and we still saw a reduction in posts.



I think I'd like a per-IRL day and a per-game phase post cap combined, with restrictions lifted somewhere between 24-48 hours before deadline.

[Ircher]

I've tried some experimental rules to curb this, and I wouldn't say they've been super successful. I think a general discouragement from triple-or-more-posting in a row does in fact decrease that behavior and helps some. One suggestion I got from a post-game survey ran along the lines of giving a posting cooldown if a player had twice the median number of posts. That sounds like it could work well, but I haven't tried it in practice.

[DkKoba]

I've tried some experimental rules to curb this, and I wouldn't say they've been super successful. I think a general discouragement from triple-or-more-posting in a row does in fact decrease that behavior and helps some. One suggestion I got from a post-game survey ran along the lines of giving a posting cooldown if a player had twice the median number of posts. That sounds like it could work well, but I haven't tried it in practice.

Due to the long deadline meta we have as well, something very dynamic has to be developed to curb some players.


The main issue is to not spawn 20 pages within 3 IRL days of the game starting, for instance.


I think it will do well for players if day 1 has significantly less posts allowed than currently is possible due to the low info nature of the day for instance.

Currently I am thinking of these restriction options:

Multiple hardcaps meant to pace posts from players:

1. You may not post more than twice in a row within a half hour period. This is also lifted when another player posts after you.

2. You may only post 10-20 times per IRL day

3. You may only post 250 posts total per day phase. (adjusted for how many IRL days the day phase is)

4. You have unlimited naked vote changes(within reason), that is not to be used to communicate once you have reached your cap.

5. These restrictions are lifted 36 hours before deadline.


Alternatively, a post "soft cap". If you are reaching high post levels, you become restricted.

1. If you reach 100 posts within the dayphase, you will acquire a post restriction.

2. You will only be able to post 5-10 times per IRL day until it is close to deadline.

3. You have unlimited naked vote changes(within reason), that is not to be used to communicate once you have reached your cap.

4. These restrictions are lifted 48 hours before deadline.


Something like this is a good place to start IMHO and will go a long way towards making the game more welcome for those a little busier in their lives and unable to read pages and pages of games.

[MathBlade]

I think this is good in theory bad in practice.

I get I am a hyperposter but I find it’s pretty much one of the few ways to address everything

If you make a wall it’s ignored
If you do one short post then you get called scum or can’t address something scum tried to sneak in

I think the limits idea is good but needs to address context and how the game is going otherwise I think it’s going to be extremely damaging.

In other words I think limiting to X posts is bad but maybe no more than X% and a hard cap both.

This way if everyone is “hyperposting” a single player doesn’t get called out for it because they had 250 but everyone else had 249.

[MathBlade]

Especially if someone intentionally tries to irritate you and it can be damaging to you or the gamestate if you don’t respond

So what’s a player to do? Eat a post restriction or be anti alignment?

It’s kinda why I think hardcap + percentage is better.

[Ircher]

In other words I think limiting to X posts is bad but maybe no more than X% and a hard cap both.

This way if everyone is “hyperposting” a single player doesn’t get called out for it because they had 250 but everyone else had 249.

I think this is an important point as well. If everyone can keep up, it's not really necessary or good for there to be a posting limit. It's only when you have a wide spread of posting rates that this becomes problematic.

Percentage was one of the first things I tried, but I was never satisfied with how it worked in practice. I cannot recall precisely why I was dissatisfied, but it just seemed too crude to actually work. I switched to a standard deviations-based thing, and I liked that more, but I had to ditch it because it was too complicated for a lot of people to understand. (It was also a bit cumbersome to compute and keep track of.) I liked it more because it was more robust towards outliers.

[RH9]

I think that a good idea would be to give players a cooldown timer as Koba previously suggested.
Every time that a player posts more than 5 times in a row, they are required to stop posting until another player (or the mod) makes a post.
Then everybody can keep up at a reasonable pace.

[Ythan]

I find flooding useful as scum (but still instinctively do it as any alignment). My two cents on incentives.

[KittyTacky]

I think that a good idea would be to give players a cooldown timer as Koba previously suggested.
Every time that a player posts more than 5 times in a row, they are required to stop posting until another player (or the mod) makes a post.
Then everybody can keep up at a reasonable pace.

Yeah I think this is better than a hard cap.

[implosion]

Someone did this or asked about doing this or something very similar in the normal queue at one point, I think... I can't remember who or when off the top of my head though.

[MathBlade]

What about a percentage discrepancy for posts in a phase between first and second most poster?

[MathBlade]

Like if someone has 50, another 30, the rest two is a problem.
But 50,30, rest 20 isn’t?

Maybe an equation to find that line

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I think this is good in theory bad in practice.

I get I am a hyperposter but I find it’s pretty much one of the few ways to address everything

If you make a wall it’s ignored
If you do one short post then you get called scum or can’t address something scum tried to sneak in

I think the limits idea is good but needs to address context and how the game is going otherwise I think it’s going to be extremely damaging.

In other words I think limiting to X posts is bad but maybe no more than X% and a hard cap both.

This way if everyone is “hyperposting” a single player doesn’t get called out for it because they had 250 but everyone else had 249.

I have the same issue and I struggle a lot with making wall posts, so I just straight up avoid geriatric games for that reason.

I’d suggest that the game mod, just ask excessively hyper posting users to post less. Just a reminder can do wonders.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

I think this is good in theory bad in practice.

I get I am a hyperposter but I find it’s pretty much one of the few ways to address everything

If you make a wall it’s ignored
If you do one short post then you get called scum or can’t address something scum tried to sneak in

I think the limits idea is good but needs to address context and how the game is going otherwise I think it’s going to be extremely damaging.

In other words I think limiting to X posts is bad but maybe no more than X% and a hard cap both.

This way if everyone is “hyperposting” a single player doesn’t get called out for it because they had 250 but everyone else had 249.

I have the same issue and I struggle a lot with making wall posts, so I just straight up avoid geriatric games for that reason.

I’d suggest that the game mod, just ask excessively hyper posting users to post less. Just a reminder can do wonders.

I disagree. That “reminder” is townsided mod interference.

A clear guideline of some sort is necessary if we want to limit hyperposting

[Bell]

I’m sorry.

[MathBlade]

Why are you sorry?

It’s more about having a clear guideline to what hyperposting is.
I suspect it will update overtime and will take time to get a sweet spot which will suck for me as I have a routine.
But sometimes routines are bad and should change.

[Bell]

I’m a hyper spammer. Lol.

And yeah, I don’t always post even half the time with the direct goal of winning or achieving some goal toward my win con.
Sometimes I really will make jokes, complain about work, go off into a tangent that’s exceedingly unlikely to be true just to entertain the thought, or get into bad back and forths.

I believe pooky recently brought up that I’ve tried to win by out posting my opponent.
And I find it difficult to argue against that because yeah, sometimes I dump content in the hopes that people will town read me for that. It didn’t work in that case, but yeah. It’s probably something I should go without.
*edited to avoid a lot of separate posts.

[D3f3nd3r]

Are there any opinions on just having the game mod “wrap” multiple consecutive posts into one by editing all content into one post and then deleting the second, third, etc. posts?

After Timeshift III I don’t think I’m allowed to have opinions on mafia modding anymore, but if I follow through and actually mod a game this summer I might try *something* out, whether it’s that or post restrictions or whatever.

[DkKoba]

I really think at minimum just a (even if its really high) post cap is psychologically enough to stop people from just straight up posting constantly in the case of players like myself, bell, etc.

[MathBlade]

Are there any opinions on just having the game mod “wrap” multiple consecutive posts into one by editing all content into one post and then deleting the second, third, etc. posts?

After Timeshift III I don’t think I’m allowed to have opinions on mafia modding anymore, but if I follow through and actually mod a game this summer I might try *something* out, whether it’s that or post restrictions or whatever.

I think that would be mod influence tbh.
Sometimes I make separate posts to help divide thoughts when paragraphs aren’t enough.
At that point that’s mod influence of them deciding if it should be a separate post.

It’s why I don’t like the “mod reminder” to not hyperpost without a strict definition of what hyperposting is. It lends itself to too much subjective bias.

[D3f3nd3r]

Are there any opinions on just having the game mod “wrap” multiple consecutive posts into one by editing all content into one post and then deleting the second, third, etc. posts?

After Timeshift III I don’t think I’m allowed to have opinions on mafia modding anymore, but if I follow through and actually mod a game this summer I might try *something* out, whether it’s that or post restrictions or whatever.

I think that would be mod influence tbh.
Sometimes I make separate posts to help divide thoughts when paragraphs aren’t enough.
At that point that’s mod influence of them deciding if it should be a separate post.

It’s why I don’t like the “mod reminder” to not hyperpost without a strict definition of what hyperposting is. It lends itself to too much subjective bias.

I mean it would be something that I would do indiscriminately to any multipost. I'd like to think that I'd be able to stay impartial and just combine everything (maybe throwing a --------------------------- between posts but otherwise not making any changes), but that's a fair concern.