Let's Discuss the Hyperpost Meta

[Bell]

That would be a lot of work. But As long as you clearly demarcated every post as separate when compiling then I don’t think it would be an issue.

And yeah, when mods place post limits i chaff at them a little but respect it and follow the rules while regretting all the lost opportunities to say something silly.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your name violates my copyright I am issuing a cease and desist order.

[Ircher]

Are there any opinions on just having the game mod “wrap” multiple consecutive posts into one by editing all content into one post and then deleting the second, third, etc. posts?

I don't advocate deleting posts as it makes the software act weird and in mafia games, you also reference post numbers a lot, so that's an issue as well.

[Bell]

Your name violates my copyright I am issuing a cease and desist order.

Bring it on pipsqueak.

[Zachrulez]

Letting the game breathe is actually a skill.

So is posting only when there are important things to cover in a post.

As a player it was irritating to be suspected merely for not meeting some minimum posting threshold that existed in other player's minds and it definitely feeds into the meta of the hyperpost. Too much activity can and often is a negative.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your name violates my copyright I am issuing a cease and desist order.

*registers new account “The Radiant Nancy Drew”*.

[joqiza]

I'm in favor of mods playing it by ear and reaching out to players to say "hey stop posting so much buddy" if there's an issue. If the player asks you to be specific just say "fuck around and find out" then refuse to elaborate further.

[joqiza]

On a related note I want to play a game with hidden rng post caps but no one will host one no matter how many times I bring it up. Basically Rand a number between 1 to X for each player and don't tell them what the # is, just let them know that the mechanic is there, and if their post count in the game ever exceeds that # then modkill them. I want people to have the fear of god every time they post.

[Something_Smart]

As a player, the idea of a posting cap makes me nervous. I'm not a hyperposter, but I'm generally very comfortable in hyperpost-y games. It is very hard for me to point to any particular posts or sections in a game and go "that should not have happened"; that is to say, the game is long because a lot of things happened, not because people are pointlessly flooding it.

I personally don't know that I really could change my behavior to adapt to a posting cap. All it would do, I think, is make me paranoid and frustrated that I have to do some impossible calculation of whether any individual post is "worth it". My intuition is that it would be the same for true hyperposters, but maybe that's off; definitely, the most relevant viewpoints here would be those of hyperposters. Specifically, how would you respond to a posting cap? Would you be able to prioritize your posts to accomplish what you want without flooding the game?

MathBlade seems to agree with me that there's no easy way to cut down on posting; Bell and Koba disagree, although I'm skeptical of whether Koba's proposed restrictions are really stringent enough to make much of a difference. I would like to hear more people weigh in, but I worry that trying to limit posting directly is treating a symptom rather than the cause. The cause being... that people want the game to move faster/change more rapidly?

Maybe the real value of a posting cap is in deterrent; if you know you can't limit yourself to fewer than 100 posts per game day (e.g.), then you won't join the game, and there won't be a problem. If we're looking for a deterrent, maybe we could go the other way as well-- have games with a posting minimum, like 15 posts per RL day (or maybe you must average that over an entire day phase). That's a scary thought, and it sounds like it would lead to people spamming to meet the requirement, but if my deterrent theory is correct then anyone who joins the game should be able to meet the requirement easily.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I may be one of the few who hates hypoposting far more. If barely anyone is posting, the game is in danger of becoming stagnant. Generally, a lot of game posts mean people are enjoying the game and are invested.

[MathBlade]

As a player, the idea of a posting cap makes me nervous. I'm not a hyperposter, but I'm generally very comfortable in hyperpost-y games. It is very hard for me to point to any particular posts or sections in a game and go "that should not have happened"; that is to say, the game is long because a lot of things happened, not because people are pointlessly flooding it.

I personally don't know that I really could change my behavior to adapt to a posting cap. All it would do, I think, is make me paranoid and frustrated that I have to do some impossible calculation of whether any individual post is "worth it". My intuition is that it would be the same for true hyperposters, but maybe that's off; definitely, the most relevant viewpoints here would be those of hyperposters. Specifically, how would you respond to a posting cap? Would you be able to prioritize your posts to accomplish what you want without flooding the game?

MathBlade seems to agree with me that there's no easy way to cut down on posting; Bell and Koba disagree, although I'm skeptical of whether Koba's proposed restrictions are really stringent enough to make much of a difference. I would like to hear more people weigh in, but I worry that trying to limit posting directly is treating a symptom rather than the cause. The cause being... that people want the game to move faster/change more rapidly?

Maybe the real value of a posting cap is in deterrent; if you know you can't limit yourself to fewer than 100 posts per game day (e.g.), then you won't join the game, and there won't be a problem. If we're looking for a deterrent, maybe we could go the other way as well-- have games with a posting minimum, like 15 posts per RL day (or maybe you must average that over an entire day phase). That's a scary thought, and it sounds like it would lead to people spamming to meet the requirement, but if my deterrent theory is correct then anyone who joins the game should be able to meet the requirement easily.

I agree it’s not easy but that doesn’t mean it’s not important.

However whatever we decide, %, hard cap, std Deviation, should be clear.

Having something subjective is prone to perception biases. Yes sure someone could try to skirt the line so to speak but maybe that is them trying to be better or maybe that’s alignment indicative,

It’s more probably going to be trial and error more so than anything.

[Something_Smart]

However whatever we decide, %, hard cap, std Deviation, should be clear.

Having something subjective is prone to perception biases. Yes sure someone could try to skirt the line so to speak but maybe that is them trying to be better or maybe that’s alignment indicative,

Oh yeah, I definitely agree with that. I wasn't even thinking about subjective measures, that's bound to be mod influence and also likely unfair.

And my worry when I say "it's not easy" is not that it will take effort, it's that people won't do a good job of it and it will make the game unpleasant for them and/or just wreck it completely.

[Something_Smart]

I may be one of the few who hates hypoposting far more. If barely anyone is posting, the game is in danger of becoming stagnant. Generally, a lot of game posts mean people are enjoying the game and are invested.

I wouldn't say I "hate" it, but I am definitely in the same boat where I prefer high-activity games. I would assume that a lot of the people who qualify as hyperposters have a similar preference, which is what gives me the idea to have designated high-activity games as well as designated low-activity ones.

I'm pretty sure this distinction already exists informally; the game Koba linked is a good example of one where pretty much everyone could tell, just based on the playerlist, that it would be a hyperpost-y game. And there's an argument to be made that it was already likely to be this even before anyone signed up, just because of the mod and the setup. In that case, the mod instituting a stringent minimum activity requirement (as long as it was well-designed, of course) might have been a good thing in that it would deter people who clearly would not have been able to keep up.

[Andante]

As someone who is considered a hyperposter. I hate post caps. I have to spend a lot of time going "idk if it's worth it to say this thought or not" and if I wanna discuss reads with people, I have to sit there like "how badly do I want to debate my read on this person" cause every post matters...

Like our EM people have forum games on MU.. "post cap of 150, lifted 2 hours before eod" do yall have any idea what those 2 hours before eod look like... the spam is INSANE... and it's likely a result of everyone having to hold back all game, then yeah... and there I was well under post cap, yes... till eod, cause I had to hold back, like, I think there was 15 people? maybe more.. like, when you limit me to 150 posts, and there's lost of people in that game.. it loses like all sense of "fun" and becomes "how the heck can I look towny without really being able to make reads"


I don't think this is an issue the mod needs to do anything about, cause post cap kills the game in a way, like, you have people that hit it, then they can't talk anymore, and those tend to be the people I like to bounce reads off of cause you know they've read the game and are paying attention. and it's more of a "let the players deal with it" kinda thing I feel like, if you have 1 person who's "bad" then if people in the game have an issue, they should be saying something to them, and I know I'll chill out when people ask me to. I just don't like the "well some people can't keep up so we have to do something!!" like no.. you see who you're signing up to play with, worst case you can replace out I guess, like it's very clear early on how the game will be.

I just had a game where I had 800 posts, and pretty much all were game related, I was just very into the game, and like there were times I tried to make an effort to just stop talking to let others discuss stuff.

idk I hate post caps. If my friends are in a post cap game/people want me to play one, I'd join it, but I have so much more fun without post caps!! like, my 800 post game? that was the most fun I have ever had in a maf game, like I was actually solving with people!!!

[Something_Smart]

I just don't like the "well some people can't keep up so we have to do something!!" like no.. you see who you're signing up to play with, worst case you can replace out I guess, like it's very clear early on how the game will be.

That seems pretty unfair, no? As game mods we should be trying to optimize for player enjoyment.

Nobody is suggesting that post caps be instituted on every game; the goal is to create some games that lower-activity people can join without constantly being afraid of not being able to keep up. And my theory is kinda that most hyperposters won't really be able to scale back their posting, so they should just be excluded from these games.

I would love to come up with a solution that would make hyperposters not

want

to post as much (rather than a posting cap, under which they still want to post, but aren't always able to), but I'm just not sure it exists.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think designignating high and low activity games, might be an idea then but then geriatric games already exist, so for those players who have trouble keeping up, maybe make more of them? I personally would be highly unlikely to sign up for a geriatric for pretty much the same reqsons that Mathblade, S_S and Andante have already expressed. I’m really just generally not a wallpost kind’ve of player and Math is right, that a lot of people tend to skip over them in general. I do still try to restrain myself from posting unhelpful or redundant content for the most part - a skill that has taken me a long time to develop.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just don't like the "well some people can't keep up so we have to do something!!" like no.. you see who you're signing up to play with, worst case you can replace out I guess, like it's very clear early on how the game will be.

That seems pretty unfair, no? As game mods we should be trying to optimize for player enjoyment.

Nobody is suggesting that post caps be instituted on every game; the goal is to create some games that lower-activity people can join without constantly being afraid of not being able to keep up. And my theory is kinda that most hyperposters won't really be able to scale back their posting, so they should just be excluded from these games.

I would love to come up with a solution that would make hyperposters not

want

to post as much (rather than a posting cap, under which they still want to post, but aren't always able to), but I'm just not sure it exists.

My current policy is: read more, post less and only respond to where I think I can either advance the game or make it more fun.

[Andante]

I just don't like the "well some people can't keep up so we have to do something!!" like no.. you see who you're signing up to play with, worst case you can replace out I guess, like it's very clear early on how the game will be.

That seems pretty unfair, no? As game mods we should be trying to optimize for player enjoyment.

Nobody is suggesting that post caps be instituted on every game; the goal is to create some games that lower-activity people can join without constantly being afraid of not being able to keep up. And my theory is kinda that most hyperposters won't really be able to scale back their posting, so they should just be excluded from these games.

I would love to come up with a solution that would make hyperposters not

want

to post as much (rather than a posting cap, under which they still want to post, but aren't always able to), but I'm just not sure it exists.

Ok, yes I know game mods want the best environment for players!! and I'm not saying people should have to feel like "oh I can't play games cause people post too much!!" like, people seem to be skipping over the idea of like that player asking people to calm down or just "hey all yall post too much, I can't keep up" like, I know in games when people are struggling to keep up that's where I'll try and help them like "hey tell me your reads, lets go from there" but like I think I've only been ask once to post less.


I know there's no perfect solution, but almost everyone with the post cap games is posting wall posts, and that's where I struggle the most, like, I am not sitting in a huge game reading wall posts... I'd like to think since joining MS I've gotten better about hyperposting.. it's not something I set out to do, like a big part of it is the overall vibe of the game, like if people are being fun, I'm like "yaassss let's do this!!"

idk, maybe I just shouldn't have posted here. oops. I mean if non hyperposters ever want to give me tips, I'm always down to listen!!

[Something_Smart]

like, people seem to be skipping over the idea of like that player asking people to calm down or just "hey all yall post too much, I can't keep up" like, I know in games when people are struggling to keep up that's where I'll try and help them like "hey tell me your reads, lets go from there" but like I think I've only been ask once to post less.

You may be right; it's possible that the problem lies in part with the people who just assume they won't be able to follow everything and then don't even try. But then again, I'm sure there are people who want to actually be able to read all the posts in the game, and these strategies won't help. I guess that's another group that we'd want to hear input from-- the supposed people who have trouble keeping up. I guess those are less likely to be the kinds of people who frequent MD, so that might be trickier.

idk, maybe I just shouldn't have posted here. oops. I mean if non hyperposters ever want to give me tips, I'm always down to listen!!

No, you're absolutely fine This is MD, we are brainstorming, I appreciate hearing your viewpoint even though I disagree with some things.

Hearing about how this has gone on MU is pretty valuable. It sounds like the posting caps aren't really an effective deterrent there. Is it because they are used in all games? Or is it because people want to play games badly enough that they will endure (and/or try to find a way around) the caps?

[DkKoba]

like, people seem to be skipping over the idea of like that player asking people to calm down or just "hey all yall post too much, I can't keep up" like, I know in games when people are struggling to keep up that's where I'll try and help them like "hey tell me your reads, lets go from there" but like I think I've only been ask once to post less.

You may be right; it's possible that the problem lies in part with the people who just assume they won't be able to follow everything and then don't even try. But then again, I'm sure there are people who want to actually be able to read all the posts in the game, and these strategies won't help. I guess that's another group that we'd want to hear input from-- the supposed people who have trouble keeping up. I guess those are less likely to be the kinds of people who frequent MD, so that might be trickier.

idk, maybe I just shouldn't have posted here. oops. I mean if non hyperposters ever want to give me tips, I'm always down to listen!!

No, you're absolutely fine This is MD, we are brainstorming, I appreciate hearing your viewpoint even though I disagree with some things.

Hearing about how this has gone on MU is pretty valuable. It sounds like the posting caps aren't really an effective deterrent there. Is it because they are used in all games? Or is it because people want to play games badly enough that they will endure (and/or try to find a way around) the caps?

I believe it is moreso because of the way 48 hour deadlines work vs 7 day ones. People tend to crash in and start hyperposting within the last few hours of the deadline and also exhaust their postcap early on, since the postcap tends to be lifted before deadline, so typically they get to reach double the postcap in a dayphase - however, trust me, it would be even worse without the postcaps xD

[Something_Smart]

Why don't they join games without a post cap? Is it because there aren't any/aren't enough?

[DkKoba]

with the MU thing, andante was strictly referencing our subcommunity we have there for epicmafia where we host multiple games a year at least and we always have a postcap because several people end up managing to 300 post within 48 hours somehow without one.

we all collectively agreed we dont want games to reach 5k posts on day 1, which happened on the main site before it got taken down, so we had post caps in all our games and it's managed to curb d1 by quite a bit.

[Dwlee99]

Just to throw a comment in about the MU post cap games: the one game I played (with both Koba and Andante) was absolutely impossible to keep up with. The 150 post cap was honestly too little to stop some posters. I don't think I was able to read over two fifths of the posts and even the posts I read I did not feel like I was actually reading but really just skimming. MS definitely has a "problem" with hyperposting, but it is nowhere near as bad as it is on somewhere like MU or my former homesite. I think the important thing to keep in mind with hyperposting is that we have long deadlines. That means you can take things a little slower, let the thread breathe more, etc.

[DkKoba]

Just to throw a comment in about the MU post cap games: the one game I played (with both Koba and Andante) was absolutely impossible to keep up with. The 150 post cap was honestly too little to stop some posters. I don't think I was able to read over two fifths of the posts and even the posts I read I did not feel like I was actually reading but really just skimming. MS definitely has a "problem" with hyperposting, but it is nowhere near as bad as it is on somewhere like MU or my former homesite. I think the important thing to keep in mind with hyperposting is that we have long deadlines. That means you can take things a little slower, let the thread breathe more, etc.

that game was a large with 16? players and most people average 100 posts so 1600 posts were expected minimum in phase 1

our large games reach similar numbers on day 1, just spread out across a longer time, because of the longer deadlines.

[Dwlee99]

The over a longer timescale is the important part there. If I have 10 days to look at 1600 posts, that's about 160 a day. Much more manageable than 800 in a day.

Edit: also just checked and the first day phase ended at post #2479.