Why don’t more mods allow hydras?

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Why don’t more mods allow hydras?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:15 pm

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

There’s so many games I’d /in for but don’t because either I might be afk for a week or a game has too complex mech but no hydra setups don’t accommodate players in either situation. Now I understand some players don’t want hydras in their games but it can be put to a vote? I just find it incredibly frustrating because I absolutely love to hydra. For me, it makes playing mafia so much more fun to have someone to talk about the game privately too.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:20 pm

Post by RH9 »

I think that it might be because hydras take up a single slot while if the players in the hydra split, they'd take up more slots.
This is assuming that we're talking about neither Normal nor Secret Alt games.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:31 pm

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

In post 1, RH9 wrote:I think that it might be because hydras take up a single slot while if the players in the hydra split, they'd take up more slots.
This is assuming that we're talking about neither Normal nor Secret Alt games.
I’m not, I understand why normals don’t allow them and I’m fine with flying solo in secret alt games but in larges especially where mech complexity is involved, I worry I’ll just get overwhelmed and confused if I can’t discuss this with someone else. Hell, if the no hydra mods even allowed 2 heads with one silent one, that would still be better than playing solo but optimally I prefer someone who’s active if possible and pretty much that most of my hydra experiences have been really good.

I also find playing in a hydra a lot more fun, so this greatly saddens me. :(
But mainly I like talking about the game with someone I know I can trust.
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:07 am

Post by Enchant »

Because they want so.

Also, not everyone find it fun to argue with slot which have two heads yelling at them and having free advantage at hiding self, because reading hydra can be harder.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:25 am

Post by Ythan »

I see a lot of advantage in being hydraed that could be seen as unfair.
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:02 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

Hydra technically break the "don't talk about ongoing games" rule. To touch on Enchants point, 2 (or more) heads with differing views on the game can make a game exhausting. A lot of people already complain that larges have too many voices, now imagine a large full of hydra. I get that most games that already do limit hydra but yeah...
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:36 pm

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1, RH9 wrote:I think that it might be because hydras take up a single slot while if the players in the hydra split, they'd take up more slots.
This is assuming that we're talking about neither Normal nor Secret Alt games.
I’m not, I understand why normals don’t allow them and I’m fine with flying solo in secret alt games but in larges especially where mech complexity is involved, I worry I’ll just get overwhelmed and confused if I can’t discuss this with someone else. Hell, if the no hydra mods even allowed 2 heads with one silent one, that would still be better than playing solo but optimally I prefer someone who’s active if possible and pretty much that most of my hydra experiences have been really good.

I also find playing in a hydra a lot more fun, so this greatly saddens me. :(
But mainly I like talking about the game with someone I know I can trust.
In post 3, Enchant wrote:Because they want so.

Also, not everyone find it fun to argue with slot which have two heads yelling at them and having free advantage at hiding self, because reading hydra can be harder.
In post 4, Ythan wrote:I see a lot of advantage in being hydraed that could be seen as unfair.
In post 5, Nero Cain wrote:Hydra technically break the "don't talk about ongoing games" rule. To touch on Enchants point, 2 (or more) heads with differing views on the game can make a game exhausting. A lot of people already complain that larges have too many voices, now imagine a large full of hydra. I get that most games that already do limit hydra but yeah...
I would play in an all hydra large normal with complex mechanics. I don't think it's impossible to sort that, I think it's just difficult to sort and would probably require good Townplay and taking better notes than usual. The advantage is that if played well then some of the Town slots will really overperform compared to those run by individual players in a non-hydra large normal. There would be a lot of players involved so running a normal large game like this and messaging people about it could be a good way to attract players back to the site.
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:09 pm

Post by Frogsterking »

Would the situation improve at all if each head of the hydra were subject to an individual activity requirement?
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:34 am

Post by Dannflor »

I don't find hydras very fun to play with personally

I'm fine with them existing and there being games for them existing as a concept but I prefer that they are not the norm
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:07 pm

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

In post 8, Dannflor wrote:I don't find hydras very fun to play with personally

I'm fine with them existing and there being games for them existing as a concept but I prefer that they are not the norm
Only games I am virulently anti-hydra is either in Lovers’ type setups or in dance games, for super obvious reasons.

Not everyone is good at mech, I usually suck at it and I like having someone I can trust to discuss the game with - ESPECIALLY if complex mech involved. So even allowing silent heads would be better than not allowing hydras.
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:45 am

Post by Ydrasse »

imo the norm should be hydra games at a minimum with no hydras being the norm

the benefit of having a 1 slot masonry/personal scum chat compared to everyone else is wild
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:04 am

Post by Yume »

You know what? Since the fact that many of us like hydras are clearly a personal affront to those who don't, then how about we who like them leave the site for good and make our own where hydras are allowed?! You can keep this one for all I care!!!
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:05 am

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

There are some sites that have a hydra mentorship thing. It differs from a typical hydra because one of the heads is an experienced player, the other is a relative newbie. It also functions a bit differently. I recall when I first started playing mafia that I tried to get into one of those mentorshipthings but it unfortunately got canceled for whatever reason.

I have found however. that the experience of playing in hydras has done wonders for my learning and understanding of the game.

I also think that a lot of people with rl time issues would play more if there were more games allowing hydras. But for me, there’s also the mech issue. That has been something I’ve been really struggling to master ever since I started playing and I have asked how I can improve on this aspect of my play without playing in a hydra and so far, no one has offered me another alternative to this. Would anyone seriously find a hydra with one silent head a big problem?

And how do I get better at mech?
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
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Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:07 am

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

I’m pretty sure I made a thread awhile back asking for mech advice that pretty much got ignored.
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We just need to tread carefully because if you slip up around her as scum she notices and will tear your spine out and slap you to death with it. (I'm slightly scared of Nancy)
~the worst
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Nancy is pretty heavenly ngl
~CheekyTeeky
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Nancy-scum feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. Nancy-town feels like a magnifying glass in the sun glaring down at an insect.
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:09 am

Post by Ythan »

I don't think anyone has an issue with people who like hydras. I get why they exist and enjoy them myself when invited to join one. Some folks just don't envoy playing with them, and some of those specifically because they think it's unfair.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:09 am

Post by Dannflor »

it's not a personal affront to anyone i don't think, I get why people would like them I've just decided I don't. I don't mind there being games where hydras can exist being allowed. but I also think hydra-free spaces are good. idk what the exact correct balance is there. I know Survivor has a similar issue where hydras are often good and fun for certain people but there are a lot of issues in terms of competitive advantage and they are not so fun for people outside the hydra. but obviously there are people who will and want to play in them

i also struggle with mech. but I think running games has helped to improve my understanding. maybe diving into designing setups and receiving feedback is a good way to improve in that regard.

I don't know how to express that I personally prefer games to not have hydras in them without that being interpreted as an affront to all hydra users. that is not what is meant and I'm not saying anything bad about people who play in hydras. I have played in hydras before.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:13 am

Post by Ausuka »

I think hydras can impact enjoyment in that they complicate reading a slot, and also can inflate activity levels a lot more than what one player can usually achieve (I acknowledge this is not always true, or true most of the time even, but I think it is an issue that it happens at all)

I think it's fine that games which have hydras exist and people should be able to play however they want but personally I am glad normal games do not allow hydras.

Also, I think giving mech advice is just really difficult for themes especially because it's super broad and it's not super clear what to talk about specifically (not that i'd necessarily be in a position to give such advice lol)
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:13 am

Post by Yume »

When people say 'hydras should be banned altogether' how else am I supposed to interpret that other than what I said?
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:14 am

Post by Ydrasse »

i think that having a silent head critiquing play or aiding it or what have you is unfair to people who don’t have that advantage unless it’s done in a game specifically advertised or presented as having that as an option or something that will happen. a mentorship style game is intriguing in practice as some sort of “come sharpen your skills here” deal but should be ultimately confined imo to those specific games. whether there’s a demand for that with the site currently is another issue but i do think several people would be offput otherwise.

i think that some of the issues holding people back as well from play is the result of having games inundated with too many posts or feeling a need to be constantly 100% updated, and disliking not knowing every detail of everything to the point it becomes stressful. i think these are things that can be curbed in different ways without necessarily needing hydras.
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:14 am

Post by NanceFloor »

I know what you mean, some hydras are legend. :P
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:17 am

Post by NanceFloor »

In post 19, NanceFloor wrote:I know what you mean, some hydras are legend. :P
That was addressed to Dannflor, obviously. :lol:
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:31 am

Post by Meuh »

I mean with the site already struggling to fill games, having a higher density of players within less slots probably wouldn't help.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:39 am

Post by Nancy Drew 39 »

In post 21, Meuh wrote:I mean with the site already struggling to fill games, having a higher density of players within less slots probably wouldn't help.
But what about people who aren’t signing up for games that don’t allow hydras? I would play more games if there were more hydra games.
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:43 am

Post by Ydrasse »

frankly i think that specific demographic of players is extremely low
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:46 am

Post by Aristeia »

I think just from the standpoint of fairness it stands to reason that hydras can allow an unfair advantage to the players using them. For example in chess, go, poker, it would not be seen as "fair" nor common for two player to occupy one slot and play against another player. Mafia similarly is also a battle of minds and it would be unfair for certain slots to have more then one mind occupying it in many circumstances.
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