Commonly Asked Questions on Mafia Theory

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Post Post #100  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:06 am

also that
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Post Post #101  (ISO)  » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:26 pm

In post 97, reinoe wrote:OK this is something that has popped up twice now.

Some of you may have heard of something like "too scummy to be scum"(tstbs). While similar I've seen a phenomenon where someone will seem to hit "EVERYTHING THAT WILL TRIGGER SOMEONE'S SCUMDAR". Waffling on role claims, telling bald faced lies, voting for their townreads, not voting for their scumreads: just hitting every possible scumnote. And then upon their flip they turn out to be town.

I'm sure that this type of play has been around forever but maybe I'm just getting unlucky and everyone who wants to ping my scumdar is playing in my games of late? My ability to detect scum seems to be going straight to hell because distractions keep popping up.

What should I do when a player's actions just scream scum? Because I have the feeling that maybe there's an upswing of people playing up VI tendencies in order to slip through via "tstbs".



There is not one set standard for finding scum. It seems you had a set standard which worked in a small amount of games and then those standards failed in other games with different players. You should reevaluate what actions "scream scum" to you.
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Post Post #102  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:27 am

I was going to ask some specific people this question, but I now realize that that would be inappropriate.

My question is, If you had to give your own personal philosophy on how you approach the game of Mafia in general, in the simplest terms, what would that look like? My game and playstyle are currently horrendous and I just need something to point me in the right direction.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
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Post Post #103  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:38 pm

Have you checked the wiki?
Look at theory/articles.
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Post Post #104  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:41 pm

In post 102, LicketyQuickety wrote:My question is, If you had to give your own personal philosophy on how you approach the game of Mafia in general, in the simplest terms, what would that look like? My game and playstyle are currently horrendous and I just need something to point me in the right direction.


Check my wiki, but basically the idea behind my playstyle is to get good at reading peoples' emotions. Then you just have to push them into an emotional state.

It's alot harder than it sounds unless you're pretty good at judging emotion, and frankly once people get used to you it's hard to make them emotional. Plus it's extremely tiring over the long-term.

My current approach to Mafia involves not playing.
I am the devil, and I'm here to do the devil's business.

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Post Post #105  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:51 pm

In post 102, LicketyQuickety wrote:I was going to ask some specific people this question, but I now realize that that would be inappropriate.

My question is, If you had to give your own personal philosophy on how you approach the game of Mafia in general, in the simplest terms, what would that look like? My game and playstyle are currently horrendous and I just need something to point me in the right direction.


Try experimenting with elements of the playstyles you see stronger players using and figure out what works for you, then build on those strengths and refine it until you have your own unique style. It'll take time, so be patient and have fun!
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Post Post #106  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:08 pm

I have to agree with kuribo in a sense. The critical thing is finding what works to start with.

To do that, you have to discover for yourself how to find scum, and separately how not to get lynched.

I also agree with kuribo that after some point people will intentionally resist you because they want you to be less effective. Screw them.
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Post Post #107  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:20 pm

Wow, this is... actually great! I was not expecting this kind of good advice right away. Thank you.

I have read pretty much all the A's in the articles and have done some other reading as well on the wiki. My problem is that, can't talk about ongoing games, but I am always a pretty strong candidate for being lynched day one regardless of alignment. On the plus side, it's forced me to get better at reading people because I don't have as much time to get my reads out there as others. I have never made it to late game and I have 6 games completed on another site (I know this basically means bananas since every site is at least a bit different if not completely so). I do try to model my play after people who are both good and experienced at this game, and as easy as one would think that would be, I am just a odd fellow and playing the way other people play doesn't usually stick (I'm far too individualistic to copy people and actually stick with it). I tend to tunnel people relentlessly and try to force them to make a slip by way of pressure. I guess that is one way I see how to manipulate emotions, but it does seem to be an effective strategy to force a particular emotion out of someone granted it takes a ton of skill to be able to do that which is not really what I am good at.

I will continue to read things on the wiki -it seems to be a great recourse. Of course as always experience is one of the better teachers. Also the whole seeing what I identify to be a strategy or tactic that I see being used by experienced/good players and borrowing those if I think I can pull it off also seems to be a pretty good shortcut from experience alone. I really should be watching the 'Mafia Championships' to see what I can learn from the people who are supposedly the best from their site, but I am pretty much overloaded right now.

I am ALWAYS open to critiques/advice about my game so please, if you have something that you think might be worth talking about do not hesitate to tell me.

P-Edit: Strong, strong advice from Vi as always.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
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Post Post #108  (ISO)  » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:30 pm

@Vi, I don't expect you to respond to this but if you happen to read it it has to do with you.

I've tried to read some of you stuff on site and in the wiki and I found it just a bit too thick for me to digest right now. And by thick I don't mean dull or dumb. I mean thick with content that usually flies over my head. I have only been playing mafia since the middle of February and I honestly feel my experience that I have means that I should be better than what I am currently. There is just soooo much to this game.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
Surreptitious II: Secrecy and Misdirection is in the works. Working with BTD6_maker.
Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #109  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:48 am

Guys, I want help in understanding how to better play as Town. I am not referring to present games, but I have one finished game that I want to refer to and try to understand how I could have played better and stuff.

Can someone please help me understand how to play Pro-Town and be successful at scum hunting?

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Post Post #110  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:18 am

In post 109, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Guys, I want help in understanding how to better play as Town. I am not referring to present games, but I have one finished game that I want to refer to and try to understand how I could have played better and stuff.

Can someone please help me understand how to play Pro-Town and be successful at scum hunting?


The wiki articles are a good place to start. I can tell you that reading them has definitely helped me find scum.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
Surreptitious II: Secrecy and Misdirection is in the works. Working with BTD6_maker.
Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #111  (ISO)  » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:44 am

In post 110, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 109, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Guys, I want help in understanding how to better play as Town. I am not referring to present games, but I have one finished game that I want to refer to and try to understand how I could have played better and stuff.

Can someone please help me understand how to play Pro-Town and be successful at scum hunting?


The wiki articles are a good place to start. I can tell you that reading them has definitely helped me find scum.

Which article did you start from though? And which one did you like or learn the most from.

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Post Post #112  (ISO)  » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:34 am

In post 111, Gale Wing Srock wrote:
In post 110, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 109, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Guys, I want help in understanding how to better play as Town. I am not referring to present games, but I have one finished game that I want to refer to and try to understand how I could have played better and stuff.

Can someone please help me understand how to play Pro-Town and be successful at scum hunting?


The wiki articles are a good place to start. I can tell you that reading them has definitely helped me find scum.

Which article did you start from though? And which one did you like or learn the most from.


Start off reading all the ones in the A's. They are basic enough to understand and teach the fundamentals well.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
Surreptitious II: Secrecy and Misdirection is in the works. Working with BTD6_maker.
Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #113  (ISO)  » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:33 pm

Seriously, it only take one time to find that someone is not scum hunting and catching them as scum and the reading will have made up for all that experience that it would take you otherwise to find that simple thing out on your own.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
Surreptitious II: Secrecy and Misdirection is in the works. Working with BTD6_maker.
Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #114  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:22 pm

In post 111, Gale Wing Srock wrote:
In post 110, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 109, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Guys, I want help in understanding how to better play as Town. I am not referring to present games, but I have one finished game that I want to refer to and try to understand how I could have played better and stuff.

Can someone please help me understand how to play Pro-Town and be successful at scum hunting?


The wiki articles are a good place to start. I can tell you that reading them has definitely helped me find scum.

Which article did you start from though? And which one did you like or learn the most from.


Try this to start:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ory:Theory
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.

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Post Post #115  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:00 am

In post 114, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 111, Gale Wing Srock wrote:
In post 110, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 109, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Guys, I want help in understanding how to better play as Town. I am not referring to present games, but I have one finished game that I want to refer to and try to understand how I could have played better and stuff.

Can someone please help me understand how to play Pro-Town and be successful at scum hunting?


The wiki articles are a good place to start. I can tell you that reading them has definitely helped me find scum.

Which article did you start from though? And which one did you like or learn the most from.


Try this to start:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ory:Theory


I'd like to add that 'A Beginners Guide to Being Awesome at Mafia' is a must read.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
Surreptitious II: Secrecy and Misdirection is in the works. Working with BTD6_maker.
Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #116  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:15 pm

Thanks Guys, I am not sure how or when I will finish them. But I will give it a whirl this weekend.

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Post Post #117  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:25 pm

In post 116, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Thanks Guys, I am not sure how or when I will finish them. But I will give it a whirl this weekend.


Doing some reading on theory is a great way to improve your game. Reading the article I talked about will give you a very good foundation on how to play. I have caught scum who were much more experienced than I am simply by following the advice there. Like I said before, all it takes is to catch one person not scum hunting knowing what that looks like and the reading will have made up all the time that it would otherwise take to learn that through experience. It also taught me one of the most valuable lessens you can do to look townie when scum or town and that is to simply scum hunt. Scum hunting is the cornerstone of any game of mafia. If you see someone not doing that, you very well could have caught scum. Its a basic principle that scum don't scum hunt as much as town and once you get that through your head you will already be a pretty good player.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
Surreptitious II: Secrecy and Misdirection is in the works. Working with BTD6_maker.
Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #118  (ISO)  » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:02 am

In post 117, LicketyQuickety wrote:
In post 116, Gale Wing Srock wrote:Thanks Guys, I am not sure how or when I will finish them. But I will give it a whirl this weekend.


Doing some reading on theory is a great way to improve your game. Reading the article I talked about will give you a very good foundation on how to play. I have caught scum who were much more experienced than I am simply by following the advice there. Like I said before, all it takes is to catch one person not scum hunting knowing what that looks like and the reading will have made up all the time that it would otherwise take to learn that through experience. It also taught me one of the most valuable lessens you can do to look townie when scum or town and that is to simply scum hunt. Scum hunting is the cornerstone of any game of mafia. If you see someone not doing that, you very well could have caught scum. Its a basic principle that scum don't scum hunt as much as town and once you get that through your head you will already be a pretty good player.
Indeed. That is the one of the most important insights.
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Post Post #119  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:24 pm

Is there a wiki for analyzing post patterns? That would be a really juicy thing to sink my teeth into.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8
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Quit playing with the scissors and shit and cut the crap. ~ Eminem

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Post Post #120  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:36 am

Is it true that scum meta becomes nullified once it's apparent to everyone?
I've always wondered exactly what scum traits hold true to every single player who's ever played scum, and I'm still searching for the answer. I doubt there will ever be a one-size-fits-all scum-tell, but I do think there's something about the scum-mindset that can be analyzed more closely. I believe it might have something to do with deductive and inductive reasoning, but I may be recalling it incorrectly. If anyone has any info or input on the subject, a little light shed on the matter would be much obliged.
np

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Post Post #121  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:54 am

In post 120, LucianRoy wrote:Is it true that scum meta becomes nullified once it's apparent to everyone?
I've always wondered exactly what scum traits hold true to every single player who's ever played scum, and I'm still searching for the answer. I doubt there will ever be a one-size-fits-all scum-tell, but I do think there's something about the scum-mindset that can be analyzed more closely. I believe it might have something to do with deductive and inductive reasoning, but I may be recalling it incorrectly. If anyone has any info or input on the subject, a little light shed on the matter would be much obliged.
The scum mindset can be derived from their objective and the fact that they are informed, as opposed to townies. In order for the mafia to win, they need to eliminate the townies. Even if they choose to sacrifice fellow scum now and then, this only serves their long term goal: to deceive the townies into getting all the townies eliminated. Furthermore, the fact that the mafia are informed, means that they do not need to look for any clues (see LicketyQuickety's post above).

It does not get more general than this. Unless you want to include different mafia factions in your analysis, but I am not even touching that one.
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Post Post #122  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:01 am

I think abductive reasoning is the most useful form of reasoning for mafia. It can be considered a mix of inductive and deductive reasoning.
"You've been furthering the win condition of the Mafia even better than the Mafia." - Dierfire

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Post Post #123  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:48 pm

You put into words what I was thinking, more or less. But I think I was implying the idea that due to scum being informed from the very beginning of the game, they are locked into a mindset of inductive reasoning through their attempts to frame other players and their actions. They already know the conclusion to the lynch they push, but they must first support it with reasonable evidence. The town, however, lack this information from the beginning of the game, thus they must imply deductive, (and/or abductive), reasoning to test their hypothesis of people being scum based off of evidence they collect.
I think Drixx was the one to tell me this, but I forget when and where he did so.
np

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Post Post #124  (ISO)  » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:05 pm

So one of the main things I noticed in the games is that it is tough to convince folks to accept your perspective, and vice versa. Because most folks think that their gut read or their analyzed read is the correct read on a person.

How can this Glass wall be broken? Even if I was open to all ideas, it still doesn't change the ideas of others in a game. And differentiating between the ideas bounced around by scum, and bounced around by genuine townies seems difficult.

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