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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:25 pm
by Pyra
I'm sticking to Fykus for the moment, but it's hard for me to be as sure as I would like to be Day 1 because we don't have any information to reference based on either what happened during the night or previous days.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:18 am
by Fykus
It's curious that lemon says that hes got this good read to give us and then just disappears into the sunset on vla without mentioning a time frame with a few days left until the time runs out on this day. I also have a sneaking suspicion that Pyra is more experienced at this game than they let on. Looking at some of the lengthier posts you can see a kind of thought process that takes a few games to develop properly on here. An alt account maybe? Or maybe scum who knows what they're doing? Might be something for us to press on tomorrow.

For now though we need to find ourselves a good (hopefully) lynch target that'll bring us closer to solving the game. I am not that target - I'm valuable to the town alive. But anywho,

In post 441, Sagittarius wrote:I got really goddamn sick so if you need something from me in particular just yell at me

Two days for a deadline doesn't sound too good , sounds like people are still in pressure mode jsntead of lynch mode

For me;

Preferred lynch target is still rb although idk if anyone is on board anymore. bother me for a point by point case, it's not just the BP thing
Fykus is second preferred lynch target, "
can compromise onto Lemon
Will throw a hissy fit if we lynch anyone else. Probably. Idk I'm tired . bye

I'd like to here this aforementioned case on rb.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:30 am
by Loopdan
We are getting close to deadline so we really need to start consolidating votes.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:33 am
by Loopdan
VOTE: rb

Are you going to reply to ?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:40 am
by Sagittarius
lol Fykus is pulling the "lynch me and you'll regret it" card

Dude I've had my vote on rb for days

rb case:

- the bp thing, to summarize, is basically me saying it's suspicious that rb didn't discourage the PROPOSAL when it was first suggested despite him being so against it. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CLAIMS to make it explicitly clear because apparently that was a huge misunderstanding

- the destro thing, I mentioned earlier; rb replied to this and said he outlined why he thought the push was good which 1) isn't true, look at his ISO, he just said he agreed with accountant's push but didn't outline it 2) wasn't what I was asking, I was asking how he independently came to think Destro was, in rb's words, "probscum." That is what behaviour Destro did to ping rb off. He never elaborated on this. Evidence: ISO 26 ("dunno what Destro even did") to 35 ("probscum"), posts in between only addressed to accountant, nothing about WHY he was reading destro the way he was.

- his push on me, accusing me of not taking a real stance on destro when I did. to be fair he did drop this but it'd be one thing if I actually fencesat but I explicitly stated my stance after he asked and he still kept pushing on it.

look in my ISO for evidence for points 1 and 3

Apparently rb is playing to his town meta though idk what his town meta is but it would be helpful if people explained what makes them think that way. @@creature

intent to vote Fykus if tide doesn't change. Will catch up on other shit later

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:00 am
by Sagittarius
Actually where the fuck is Aatami, their last post was on the 16th but they were on yesterday

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:29 am
by rb
In post 381, Loopdan wrote:@ICrb-- Given the situation we are now in, and with no BP claim, should everyone claim or no claim tracker? I think tracker claims should generally follow everyone no-claiming BP, as if there is a tracker we have tracker-doc and then the doc knows who to protect at night. But things have changed now and we are four days from deadline. Now I'm thinking we shouldn't have tracker (if there is one) claim. Your thoughts?

To everyone: Do not claim or even hint at any power roles you may have. Also do not even hint that you don't have a power role.

@rb-- I'd also like your thoughts on Creature.

@IC question: I don't think it's good to tracker claim, no. I don't really see a problem with playing as normal, then claiming later with a result if you get a guilty or at least the day before LyLo with whatever you have so far. 'Follow the Tracker' isn't powerful enough to warrant. Especially when if you lynch one scum and there's only 1 left, every tracker result is a hard-clear or hard-guilty. If there's a kill and you tracked someone with no result and only 1 scum is left - that person is confirmed town.

The only way to avoid confirming more town with 1 scum and a tracker alive, is to no-kill. But that's pointless as you're just delaying the inevitable and hoping you can influence daygame positively, which isn't something many scum would do in a 1vX (unless somehow the game's engineered itself to be really, really favourable to that 1 scum that's left. Unlikely though.)

I dunno, I just think that it's better to let PR's use their own wits and be unhindered by trying to break setups. It's better for learning and if people are good at it, it's just better generally. This setup stuff makes the game slightly more predictable early game which is 'nice' for town players, but not every setup is known or open, or able to be manipulated in these ways. So what do we want to teach newbies? I think that it's actually better play to use PR's for night actions and potentially getting clears/guilties, then having a deadline for them claiming (day3 for e.g.) to make sure they don't waste whatever results they have - I think many more games are won this way than by turning a PR into a gimped version by announcing who is actually the PR. It also means scum won't ever fake-claim, which means they can't fool you with it, but a fake-claim can also be CC'd and very rarely works in my opinion.

Long story short, I think that strategies like this don't do much for helping towns win, they just give the illusion of control which people misinterpret as meaningful. It's day1, you find a best option scum target and you lynch it. Then you move onto day2, and do it with more information.

Moreover, from my POV - the absolute best parts of the game to re-read when looking for scum are mid-late day 1 and early day 2. The absolute BEST by far. By turning the game into more of a controlled environment strategy game, you eliminate these parts of the game that are usually the most informative out of the whole game. It's just not worth it, I don't like strategies like this for a number of reasons. They make outcomes more 'predictable' for the early game, but I think they hurt the late game. It's an illusory benefit (in my opinion as IC).

My thoughts on Creature: this play is consistent with townplay I've seen before. He offers thoughts on most slots, finds a decent PoE, is willing to lynch anyone who doesn't do stuff that's town on Day 1. If Creature is scum I don't really see it. Maybe the fact he seems disengaged when normally he comes off as quite involved even when not posting that often (if that makes sense). He hasn't ignored any major happenings in the game though, he comments on the important wagons that form, he gives thoughts that run contrary to multiple others sometimes and didn't take the opportunity to mislynch me when I think if he tried, he could have done it if he was scum - and I think he would have tried if he was.

So, he's most likely town.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:51 am
by Huntress
Vote Count 1.12rb (3) - Sagittarius, Fykus, Loopdan
Fykus (3) - Creature, Tarkus, Pyra
Sagittarius (1) - rb
Pyra (1) - Aatami

Not voting (1) - EccentricLemon

With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 22nd March 4.30 pm GMT, (in (expired on 2017-03-22 16:30:00)).

Aatami has been prodded.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:28 am
by Tarkus
Eeek I'm getting cold feet on Fykus

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 am
by Tarkus
Lemon, now would be great time to come back from v/la if you can..

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:44 pm
by Tarkus
Ok yeah, after more thinking and iso reading I think lemon is a safer lynch. Lots of fence-sitting, not really scum reading, and zero use of her vote at all. And you'd think town going v/la this close to the deadline would at least vote on their top scumread before taking off. I won't argue against the integrity of the v/la, irl stuff happens, but man 425 is a really weak post to leave us with. It really sucks to lynch someone who isn't here tho :(

I'm not clearing fykus and I'd still rather lynch him than rb or nobody, so I'll keep my vote here for the moment, but it's looking risky to me.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:37 pm
by Fykus
Tarkus i know you're town and you dont trust me much but can you please consider putting rb at L-1 so we can push for s claim? Theres 2 or 3 days left and we need to hurry it along. If you like his answer then revote me. If anyone hammers then we can lynch them tomorrow

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:46 pm
by Tarkus
I think it's clear he's not going to bp claim, and I don't want him to claim a PR if that's what you're suggesting. I've considered the rb case and I'm not convinced at all. It seems contrived and focused on little things that I don't find all that scummy, and I've been reading his play as towny otherwise. Plus creature thinks he's town, and I've been townreading creature. So no I won't put him at L-1. If he's getting lynched it's without my vote, and if the scumteam is like rb/creature then I'm just lost right now lol

I want to hear what people think about lynching lemon and who they think is a better alternative. Tick tock

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:48 pm
by Creature
VOTE: Loopdan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:49 pm
by Creature
In post 457, Huntress wrote:(in 1 day, 16 hours, 41 minutes).

What time is it?

Time to choose a lynch.

And now.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:01 pm
by Fykus
If you dont want prs to claim theyre a pr (not suggesting he is one) then how do you expect them to not be lynched?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:06 pm
by Pyra
I don't like how Fykus isn't directly responding to what I posted regarding me scumreading him and instead keeps saying that I'm too good for someone new and that it's something for everyone else to be suspicious about. The whole "Tarkus I know you're town" thing seems like an emotional appeal to me and while I have no problems with his idea of pushing rb to claim (although on the off-chance that they're a town PR it wouldn't be great if they were outed Day 1) it's just that the way Fykus is posting and expectantly trying to get everyone else to follow along rubs me the wrong way. About Lemon, I'm not sure about what's so scummy about them besides the fact that they haven't been here very much (if people can give me the rundown of their cases against Lemon if there's anything that I'm missing that would be helpful to me). To be completely honest, I think rb is more town than Lemon if anything (I agree with Tarkus that a lot of the rb case is sort of trivial), but I'd rather get Fykus than the other two at the moment. So my preferred lynch would be Fykus, but I guess I would be willing to compromise if a lot of people seem to think that I'm wrong or people convince me that there's a better alternative.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:07 pm
by Loopdan
Guys rb already no-claimed BP.

@Creature-- Why?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:10 pm
by Pyra
Also, in response to Fykus's last post, that's exactly why we shouldn't force town PRs to claim with that mindset. Even if they do claim PR and we all unvote them, they're going to be killed that night anyways. The whole "claim or die" thing is harmful Day 1 when town PRs haven't had a chance to do anything. If we're going to use that strategy to pressure people at all, it would be better to do so later on in the game, when we have more insight as to who we need to pressure and PRs have played their roles.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:12 pm
by Sagittarius
VOTE: fykus

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:13 pm
by Tarkus

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:14 pm
by Sagittarius
idk what you're expecting but alright

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:14 pm
by Fykus
Welp youre forcing me to claim. Give me an hour and ill post on my lunch break. Please refrain from hammering until then. Lynch whoever does if it happens

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:16 pm
by Sagittarius
your role takes 3 seconds to post unless you're scum then you'll probably delay it until your lunch break despite having time to say you're going to delay it until your lunch break

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:17 pm
by Creature
I'm feeling better about a Loopdan lynch.