In post 96, StealthyNoodle wrote:Not at all, I just find it more likely. He supports the use of a pro-town strat, while you don't. Simple as pie.
Do you not think that scum can argue in favor of pro-town strats in order to seem to be Town? Do you think that scum are more likely to go along with whatever Town says in order to blend in? Do you think that scum would be likely to argue against a pro-town strat if it put them in the spotlight and got them a lot of negative attention?
In post 96, StealthyNoodle wrote:Even though I agree with you, I have no reason to not claim not BP.
If you agree that the strat should not be used, you have every reason not to go along with it.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
@nancy-- I just finished a Newbie where 2/9 refused to claim BP day1. I replaced in half way through day1 and forced the issue and we lynched them back to back for a perfect town win.
I want this done soon so we can move on. Right now it's distracting.
In post 98, Loopdan wrote:@nancy I agree that this strat is not the best way to introduce newbies to the game, but I'm not the IC (and neither are you). Your wincon should take precedence over your desire to teach newbs. I get opposing the BP claim strat if the claims hadn't started yet, but with 6/9 already claiming it only helps scum to have incomplete claims.
Also, this would not detract from RVS if you would have followed instructions and claimed in your first post.
@srceen-- you too
I refuse to vote anywhere else but non-claimers until this is resolved.
VOTE: nancy
I have already stated that I believe teaching takes precedence over win-con. I will not pander to groupthink. I do not "follow instructions". We can move as soon as you're willing to do anything useful, like hunting scum. It's only distracting because you've made such a hoo-ha about it. I disagree with this strategy on principle.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
Forcing everyone to claim removes scum's ability to fake claim BP. If there is a BP claim without a counterclaim it provides town with a conftown who takes two shots to kill. Numbers-wise this doesn't give an extra mislynch but it does give a town voice to rally around.
If there is no BP claim we will claim tracker next. If there is a tracker we let the unclaimed doc protect tracker and we play "follow the tracker." And that's it. No more claims beyond BP and tracker (and only tracker if there is no BP claim).
In post 87, Pine wrote:Well. I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I mean hell, I suggested it and I'm not sold on it being absolutely the right thing to do. Refusing to participate in a widely-accepted pro-Town practice is only scummy if it is widely accepted; this is not.
From what I gather nancy's only concern is that it takes away from the usual game starting RVS, but I don't see why claiming BPs would hinder any form of discussion. There are still votes being thrown and reactions to wagons and votes springing up, aside from the additional setup spec happening I don't see how we have strayed much from the usual RVS as a result of claiming BPs.
In post 91, nancy wrote:Yes. Have you been reading my posts? What do you think about my refusal? Does it mean that I'm scum? You should probably go ahead and lynch me, if so.
At that point in time I had only read that far into the game, not fully caught up.
In post 27, nancy wrote:It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play. There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible. There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do. The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.
I take it that this summarises all your concerns with claiming BP?
In post 100, nancy wrote:
If you agree that the strat should not be used, you have every reason not to go along with it.
I didn't go along with it, because I didn't want to end up in your position. Seems like I dug my own grave instead.
In post 11, Loopdan wrote:
Everyone needs to make their BP or notBP claims immediately. Do this in your first post. Do not stall.
Not claiming anything would put me in a bad spot, regardless of whether I supported the idea(of introducing this strat in newbie game) or not. Or am I missing something?
In post 102, Srceenplay wrote:
If you agree it shouldn't be done but do it anyway, that's appeasing.
I've never said it shouldn't be done. What I said, was that it felt like a bad way to start a newbie game.
In post 111, nancy wrote:As a matter of fact, Loopdan, an IC in another newbie game has already made all the arguments that I have.
If you are talking about rb he was scum and we lynched him day1 for this.
And he was acting anti-wincon in order to make the point. If he were playing to his wincon as scum he would've just gone along with it. Which solidifies what I am trying to say. The pro-town benefit to this strategy is marginal at best and our own IC in this game has stated that it is not irrefutably pro-town. The emphasis on setup spec rather than scumhunting and the cost of getting into these exact situations, where we are squabbling over setup spec rather than scumhunting, is precisely why this strat sucks.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
In post 27, nancy wrote:It puts the focus on the setup rather than the play. There is enough setup-spec on MS, we don't need to encourage that. Newbie queue should be about learning to play, not solving the setup to churn out a win as easily and quickly as possible. There's also a tendency for games to stall out when a newbie lands a BP role PM because the newbie BP just loses interest, and scum have less ability to fakeclaim, which is an important thing for newbie scum to learn how to do. The amount of times scum actually claim BP is so miniscule that this strategy is really not necessary to ward that off as if it's some threat.
I take it that this summarises all your concerns with claiming BP?
More or less.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?
