Newbie 1907 - game over!!

Scantius
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Post Post #25  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:46 am

thrice*

u r a person 2
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Post Post #26  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:49 am

no not the thought process behind

The thought process behind

the worst
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Post Post #27  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:52 am

vote count 1.02

foodcoats (0) L-5 :
YyottaCat (1) L-4 : Scantius
Elements (1) L-4 : PvtUrist
Scantius (0) L-5 :
u r a person 2 (0) L-5 :
PvtUrist (0) L-5 :
saad (2) L-3 : foodcoats, u r a person 2
Dongempire (0) L-5 :
GuiltyLion (1) L-4 : Dongempire

not voting : YyottaCat, Elements, saad, GuiltyLion

This phase will end in (expired on 2018-12-29 16:30:00) or sooner if a majority lynch is achieved.

mod notes:
- quack



reading this vote count
Spoiler:
the worst1 (2)2 L-33 : PenguinPower, a goose4

1 the player who this line of the vote count refers to.
2 the number of votes currently on this player.
3 the number of votes this player is away from being lynched (e.g. L-5 = 5 votes from a lynch; L-3 = 3 votes away from a lynch; L-1 = one vote away from a lynch, etc.)
4 list of the players who are voting the player in question.
Last edited by the worst on Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Elements
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Post Post #28  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:54 am

Vote: fc

Because you have yet to respond to the first question asked about you

foodcoats
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Post Post #29  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:17 am

In post 22, Scantius wrote:No; saad hasn't talked at all yet. This wagon is fine, another player shouldn't jump on. Someone who has not talked yet should not first view the thread when they see that they are at L-2.


I do agree with the sentiment behind this, but I also think L-2 can be a legitimate way to force someone to rapidly demonstrate their allegiance to town. It's unlikely that scum will rush to hammer someone who is at L-2 on D1 because it would draw attention, and townies will most likely move off the wagon to prevent accidentally lynching town without any information whatsoever anyway. Either throud saad's response to the wagon or through the voting actions of other players, an L-2 can provide a lot of information for us.

foodcoats
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Post Post #30  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:18 am

In post 28, Elements wrote:Vote: fc

Because you have yet to respond to the first question asked about you


Urist and I have a history that I am not greatly inclined to repeat by responding to his/her goading of me. I am certain that I have no choice in the matter of Urist writing my name in red this entire game.

foodcoats
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Post Post #31  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:21 am

In post 23, u r a person 2 wrote:
In post 8, Scantius wrote:VOTE: YyottaCat
I hope you're having fun being lynched.

From everyone's entrances so far, I wouldn't have expected you to be the one worrying about pressuring people early.

Could you please explain the thought process behind this post?


URAP2, do you believe there is inconsistency between Scantius aggressively threatening to lynch Yyotta and arguing against our wagon on saad? Do you believe this is scum-indicative?

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Post Post #32  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:24 am

im kind of in the middle of engaging scantius with the purpose of answering those exact questions :neutral:

u r a person 2
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Post Post #33  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:35 am

but yes, that is the line of thinking.

There is inconsistency. Scantius' opening post is clearly designed to maximize the pressure he can exert with his RVS vote, but his later posts suggest that he doesn't believe exerting pressure on people at the start is an effective/good tactic.

The question is then,

Is town!scantius not being genuine when he makes his initial post, and instead just trying to conform to what he believes RVS should look like in order to fit in?
Or did scum!scantius just take his first opportunity to throw shade at somebody and derail a concerted town action at the start?

could go either way. my gut says town, but I want an explanation about

GuiltyLion
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Post Post #34  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:06 pm

Hi everyone!

I'm your IC this game, which means I will do my best to lead by example and help answer any questions you have about mechanics or theory. There are a lot of resources on the wiki and the discussion forums if you'd like to read more about how mafia is generally played, I suggest checking those out if you're looking for useful material. I will offer my thoughts as we play, but remember, I'm just as likely to be scum as anybody else. However, I will not lie about terms and theory to my advantage, and I'll try to make it clear if I'm speaking as IC or as GL-the-player when I answer questions.

A few of the big points:

Activity - Try to check in at least once a day, interacting with the latest content as much as possible. Town won't win if we don't have information and can't work with and talk to eachother, so lurking and avoiding the thread hurts the game.

Lynch mechanics - Players are lynched as soon as they hit the majority of votes needed (today, that is 5 votes). You cannot undo a 5th "hammer" vote, so please do not hammer until the player has had time to claim and everyone else has chimed in for/against the lynch. Speed hammering a lynch is very pro-scum, as it cuts discussion short and increases the risk of hammering a power role. Don't do it. If you want to hammer, declare "intent to hammer" a day or two before you actually intend to do it. It's also considered common courtesy to announce when you are putting a player at "L-1", when they are one vote away from lynch, so that no one will accidentally hammer.

Claiming your role - It is important to keep your role hidden from scum, and only claim when someone has given intent to hammer you. Scum gain useful information from finding out who are VTs and who are Power Roles (PRs), as they need to get rid of the PRs - don't make their work easier for them!

Mentality - Mafia can get intense sometimes. I've certainly had games that have made me mad, but please remember in the end it is just a game, and there's no excuse to insult or attack other people. Keep your arguments focused on others' play, and remember that someone with a scum role PM is not a bad person, their wincon requires them to trick the town into lynching you (or other townies). Part of my job is to promote a positive and healthy game environment in this game, so I will jump in if I think you are crossing the line. And if you find yourself getting frustrated or upset with what people are saying, take a break from the game for a few hours and come back with a cooler head.

Also, mafia is difficult! Don't be dismayed if your reads are off or you don't know who's scum, even the most experienced scumhunters have bad games. The most important thing is to just post your honest thoughts as you have them.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"

GuiltyLion
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Post Post #35  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:09 pm

okay IC post out of the way, let me say I am very excited to be here and playing with you all - I was getting burnt out on mafia so I took a break for 6 weeks or so and let me tell ya I feel ~i n v i g o r a t e d~

and I see a familiar face - hi Dongempire, good to see you again!
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"

GuiltyLion
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Post Post #36  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:19 pm

In post 7, PvtUrist wrote:@GuiltyLion (GL), explain what exactly are you guilty of?


guilty of dropping these bombs in the city, but i'm innocent, love is the motive that's why i'm killing em
guilty of setting my fire in all fifty, but i'm innocent, blame it on my equilibrium

In post 9, Elements wrote:@PvtUrist, green is not a creative colour




In post 14, Elements wrote:Also why have people started random voting while we still have over 9 days


RVS = Random Voting Stage. people start with joke or silly votes to get the game moving and give people things to react to. Inevitably it slowly becomes more game-relevant until players start making serious votes, at which point we're out of RVS (usually within 2-3 pages). But in the early stage of the game people tend to throw votes around fairly liberally because it's not likely you get 5 on a single lynch and in some way you have to do Actual Stuff to start generating Real Content.
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"

GuiltyLion
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Post Post #37  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 pm

In post 30, foodcoats wrote:Urist and I have a history that I am not greatly inclined to repeat by responding to his/her goading of me.


can you give me like the one line executive summary of this history? I'm assuming you played together in a past game, were both of you town there?
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"

GuiltyLion
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Post Post #38  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:28 pm

In post 20, Scantius wrote:I would like to point out that pressure can be an effective way to scumhunt but can also be an easy way for scum to appear to scumhunt.


I too would like a follow-up to , and I'm also gonna call out that I don't see the point behind this comment - is your line of thinking that we shouldn't pressure people because scum may use that to blend in, or that we might look like scum in doing so, or what?

VOTE: Scantius
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"

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Post Post #39  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:48 pm

In post 35, GuiltyLion wrote:okay IC post out of the way, let me say I am very excited to be here and playing with you all - I was getting burnt out on mafia so I took a break for 6 weeks or so and let me tell ya I feel ~i n v i g o r a t e d~

and I see a familiar face - hi Dongempire, good to see you again!

6 weeks? Rookie numbers. I think i havent seen you in 3 years. Hope you're still going strong.

So scan is the hot topic of the day? Heres my 2 cents:
I dont think theres anything wrong with 8. What i dont get is post 20. It is an irrelevant post and i cant quite wrap my head around why it was posted.
But 22 is bullshit. Someone seeing they are at l2 the moment they enter the game is a priceless reaction. And in any case, theres no risk to it either. No one is going to earlyhammer, since its day 1, and it would be a good reaction because their first or second post would have to address it. So why not? I dont buy post 24, it doesnt cut it.
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666: you still need to die first
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foodcoats
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Post Post #40  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:54 pm

In post 37, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 30, foodcoats wrote:Urist and I have a history that I am not greatly inclined to repeat by responding to his/her goading of me.


can you give me like the one line executive summary of this history? I'm assuming you played together in a past game, were both of you town there?

Urist tunneled me for the lion's share (see what I did there) of newbie 1905, eventually leading me to counter-tunnel them TvT. When I look back on the game, I think it resulted in both of us losing the ability to clearly sort the rest of the players as we were too focused on our feud.

I'd like to think Urist will read me with a little more nuance this time, and I'll be a little more careful in how I read them as well, since we both know each other's playstyles a little better. Urist writing my name in red is "tradition," though, right Urist?

foodcoats
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Post Post #41  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:04 pm

In post 39, Dongempire wrote:So scan is the hot topic of the day? Heres my 2 cents:
I dont think theres anything wrong with 8. What i dont get is post 20. It is an irrelevant post and i cant quite wrap my head around why it was posted.
But 22 is bullshit. Someone seeing they are at l2 the moment they enter the game is a priceless reaction. And in any case, theres no risk to it either. No one is going to earlyhammer, since its day 1, and it would be a good reaction because their first or second post would have to address it. So why not? I dont buy post 24, it doesnt cut it.


So, do you scumread Scantius for this? Do you think they are hedging on kindness/reasonableness to appear town?

If you think that L-2 wagons are desirable, why maintain your vote on GuiltyLion instead of pushing the saad wagon or adding steam to one of the other votes out there to make another L-3?

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Post Post #42  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:41 pm

saad will either show up or not

VOTE: scantius
come back and answer, friend <3

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Post Post #43  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 pm

@FC what do you think about scantius?

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Post Post #44  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:10 pm

Basic answer to these questions: Pressure should be used in moderation.
Most players won't be panicky when they have one RVS vote, so often a second vote is needed to more properly gauge reactions. However, we should first have some first posts in order to decide whether additional lynch pressure is a good idea.

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Post Post #45  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:36 pm

In post 44, Scantius wrote:Basic answer to these questions: Pressure should be used in moderation.
Most players won't be panicky when they have one RVS vote, so often a second vote is needed to more properly gauge reactions. However, we should first have some first posts in order to decide whether additional lynch pressure is a good idea.


eh I'm still not feeling like this is a satisfactory response, sorry. bear with me:

1) why is additional lynch pressure ever a bad idea? you sort of got near this when you said pressure "can be an easy way for scum to appear to scumhunt" but I still don't really follow what the problem with that is. no matter what we do, scum want to try to pretend to be town. in my eyes the most effective way to flush them out during the day is to pressure them about things they post or pressure them about being lynched, and see if you can uncover an agenda/bias towards the things they are saying or an artificial element to their reasoning. so why are you worried about too much pressure at this stage?

2) if pressure at L-2 is bad and we should avoid it in the early game, then what value or pressure is there really in a single vote? you said most players won't panic when they have one RVS vote, so were you hoping to accomplish anything with yours?
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"

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Post Post #46  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:43 pm

Likely thatScantius is scum appearing to scum hunt or maybe an intentional appearing to be noob rvs
Scantius, I won't put L-1 pressure on you this early, but I wil if I have to.
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Post Post #47  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:44 pm

wait I mean L-2
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Post Post #48  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:47 pm

1) why is additional lynch pressure ever a bad idea? you sort of got near this when you said pressure "can be an easy way for scum to appear to scumhunt" but I still don't really follow what the problem with that is. no matter what we do, scum want to try to pretend to be town. in my eyes the most effective way to flush them out during the day is to pressure them about things they post or pressure them about being lynched, and see if you can uncover an agenda/bias towards the things they are saying or an artificial element to their reasoning. so why are you worried about too much pressure at this stage?

Additional lynch pressure can cause panicky townies to gain more votes and can reveal a Power Role by behavior or a claim. Towny reactions are relatively easy to fake in my experience.

2) if pressure at L-2 is bad and we should avoid it in the early game, then what value or pressure is there really in a single vote? you said most players won't panic when they have one RVS vote, so were you hoping to accomplish anything with yours?

Most players don't panic when they have one RVS vote, but usually they react to it in some way or are forced to change their behavior due to it in some way.

the worst
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Post Post #49  (ISO)  » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:50 pm

quack
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