gifs. Thanks for the third game info. What have you learned in terms of how to hunt scum?
Flippy - since you quoted the thing two above this, I know you saw the question. Please answer this and Dans pending questions as well.
Well the only thing I can think of is just process of elimination like I said I have a very genuine town read on you right now and loop I have a tr on cos of the self vote & his back & forth with Clem. I don’t believe I saw another question, I thought I answered everything else
Dan's question was in 153 asking for you to post reactions to the game live.
Your answer - "process" of elimination - also didnt answer my question -- "how to hunt". My question is HOW you eliminate scum - why you have a TR on me, or any other reads at all that you provide after answering Dan's request for reactions.
I guess I didn’t see that or really understand it. Also I’m not to sure how to scum hunt, so I’m trying to buckle down & figure it out in this game. After getting my tr I’m think you should put pressure on who you think is most likely scum, & react based off of their reaction. But if you have any other tips I’m more than happy to listen.
In post 268, teacher wrote:@child - have your views on Clem evolved? Where/why?
not really. none of his posts are that amazing to change my mind, still a scumread. it seems that he is doing some sort of play but i dont really understand it at all.
Then why did you follow him onto that wagon rather than push him? I just find it odd youd join a wagon with your biggest SR without saying there has been an evolution.
i don't find it weird at all. i have two scumreads, i am gonna vote on either one, even if one is voting on another.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:46 am
by Plotinus
One thing lambdas let us do is define some variables in an extremely local scope. If I write
(lambda
(x) (* x x)
)
, that x only exists for the duration of that lambda and after that it's gone. If I write x somewhere else, it can mean something else. So if you want to write a little helper function inside a function to hold onto a few variables for just a little while, lambda is useful for that.
So useful, that they made an easier way of doing that, called let. The syntax for let is:
(let
(
(<var1> <exp1>)
(<var2> <exp2>)
(<var3> <exp3>)
)
<body>
)
So what are all these parentheses? The outer ones, the red ones, define the boundaries of the let. The first red ( says that we're calling a procedure, named let, and the final red ) says that the procedure is over, all the variables defined therein are garbage and don't exist anymore. The orange ones show where the variables are going to be defined. The first orange ( says we're starting defining variables now, and the last orange one says we're done definine variables and now we're going to do some things with them. Finally, the inner ones, the yellow ones, are so that each variable gets their own space and we always know where one ends and the other begins.
Since a let is basically a lambda expression with some extra conveniences, you can also give them a name and then it works basically like a temporary named define that goes away when the let is over.
So suppose we want to approximate 1/φ with a truncated continued fraction. You know the kind that go:
They continue on infinitely but we don't have infinite ram so we'll truncate it at some value k and get a partially correct answer. A number like 10 or 15 works pretty well here, you don't need to go that deep to approximate 1/φ.
(define
(cont-frac numerator denominator k)
(let loop
(
(counter 0)
)
(if
(> counter k)
numerator
(/ numerator
(+ denominator
(loop
(1+ counter)
)
)
)
)
)
)
In English: define a continued fraction with a numerator, a denominator, and some k, indicating the number of levels deep we're going to be:
let there be a loop with a counter that starts at 0. Loop doesn't mean anything to Scheme's compiler, it's just a name we're giving it to describe what it does.
The body of the loop starts here:
If the counter is greater than k, we're done, so put one final numerator in onto this thing.
Otherwise divide the numerator by the sum of the denominator and the result of jumping back to the start of the loop with an incremented counter
So round 1 we have (numerator / (denominator + i-don't-know-yet))
round 2 we have (numerator / (denominator + (numerator/(denominator + i don't know yet)))
round 3 we have (numerator / (denominator + (numerator/(denominator + (numerator/denominator + i don't know yet)))
...
round k we have (numerator / (denominator + (numerator/(denominator + (numerator/denominator + (...(numerator/(denominator+ numerator))))))))))
and then it's just some adding and dividing, which computers are good at and it spits out an answer for us. yay!
In post 268, teacher wrote:@child - have your views on Clem evolved? Where/why?
not really. none of his posts are that amazing to change my mind, still a scumread. it seems that he is doing some sort of play but i dont really understand it at all.
Then why did you follow him onto that wagon rather than push him? I just find it odd youd join a wagon with your biggest SR without saying there has been an evolution.
i don't find it weird at all. i have two scumreads, i am gonna vote on either one, even if one is voting on another.
when i think about scumreads,im not reading them as a team, i am reading them as separate people and isolating them. maybe this is where i crumble, but it does not matter to me if my scumread votes on my other scumread.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:56 am
by Emperor flippyNips
I think I do the same thing & I don’t think it’s a bad way of looking at it, cos if you’re right & the person flips red then you can go back & look at who they had interacted with in a way that’s suspicious.
In post 268, teacher wrote:@child - have your views on Clem evolved? Where/why?
not really. none of his posts are that amazing to change my mind, still a scumread. it seems that he is doing some sort of play but i dont really understand it at all.
Then why did you follow him onto that wagon rather than push him? I just find it odd youd join a wagon with your biggest SR without saying there has been an evolution.
i don't find it weird at all. i have two scumreads, i am gonna vote on either one, even if one is voting on another.
But you had earlier said your scumreads were Dici and Clem, with a lean on Dan. You unvoted Dici and immediately jumped to a wagon that had momentum, but was not even on your past radar. So youd have to have gotten over the Clem read, be willing to join a wagon with him on it, AND gotten over the Dan read, all without commenting on either your Clem or Dan evolution.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:00 am
by teacher
In post 305, Child wrote:i am reading them as separate people and isolating them
Sorry, we now have two threads going. I actually dont mind this so much (the treating Am/Clem as separate reads) so much as what appeared to be an opportunistic wagon jump that was entirely inconsistent with your top 3 scumreads from just a few pages earlier. If that many people are on your scumscope, you might want to get it checked since htere are only 2 in the game, meaning you should target at most 3 reads....
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:56 am
by EGL
@teacher do you have any scum reads?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:30 am
by teacher
Dici and child. I’ll post a full board list and regions tonight.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:44 pm
by Loopdan
I'm going out of town for three days starting tomorrow morning (12 hours or do from this post). I'll be reading when I can.
Empflipz, you haven't voted or even said you are scum-reading anybody yet this game. Or even expressed suspicions. If you had to pick your two most likely candidates for scum right now who would it be and why?
Scumread. I already talked mindmelding with Dan's 191 commentary on the entry, and personally finding 169 even more jarring. But I also REALLY didnt like the 266 and 267 evolution to voting Amzela just as that wagon caught steam. Here is why. Child's 168 gave Dici alot of scumpoints when that was a popular thing to do, but did NOT vote him. Child claimed it was because Dici was at L-1, but Dici wasnt - as the votecount above Child's post (with no votes in between) showed.
In other words, Child's actions did not match his words, and the purported reason for the gap was false. Then, when the "L-1" scare was removed, Child claims to have lost the scumread of Dici -- WITH ABSOLUTELY NO POSTS in the interim. Sorry, flaking out of a game is slightly +rand scum, so this reason to lose a scumread doesnt hold water to me -- especially if you jump over two previous scumleans (Clem and Loopdan) without commentary, to join a momentum wagon on a slot (Amzela) that was OFF what you now claim to see as a mislynch wagon (Dici). Nothing about this vote and evolution makes sense. Nothing. But it does give momentum to a wagon on a slot I feel better about being town than Dici.
Spoiler: URAP2
townlean out of my compromise pool, but still want to sort better. Theres alot of WIM, especially 249 on criticizing his townreads for wanting pressure as undercutting my fear of a pocket from the reaction to my "time out of body" experience, but I like the loose off the cuff reactions and what feels like a consistent, genuine thought process.
Spoiler: Flippy
Pure null, too vanilla and still sounding out the game.
Spoiler: dici
The claimed scum I do feel pretty strongly about this being scum, enough to the point that I am mildly looking for associatives. Part of it is a could different personality things. For example, he was excited enough about the game to be the THIRD player on and posting, with 10. But the contents of that post are scum indicative - it encourages town to stay quiet and not make accusations. Further, the wording just seems a bit off -- I answered first so that people could see a model -- semi-jokish with 2 and 3, possibly some thought with 4. Here, there wasnt joking, and there wasnt any actual insight into catching scum, just an excuse for him lurking. The naked vote 114 and the site-flake dont improve the read. All in all, I find this a pretty standard newb-scum flake when scumread and uncertain what to do about it.
tinfoil associational theory, flaking is all the more understandable if your partner .... child, ahem ... has not appeared yet to discuss in the PT, and does not appear until after you have left
Spoiler: EGL
So town that his middle name is AndCountry. Seriously, take my thoughts in 123, add a little 259 and 309, and youve got a lovely bottle of WIME. Im not going to case this, but if Im wrong about this, you should be banned from the newb queue because powerwolfing this strong is awesome.
Im still tired from the travel and dont want to do Amzela until after we talk in the morning anyways, so I will wrap it up tomorrow. Short version:
Teacher
EGL
Dan
URAP2
_____________Sort Zone
Clem
Amzela
Flippy
____________ Scum Zone
Child
Dici
In post 149, EGL wrote:@teacher are you asking my opinion on amzela or Clem his opinion on me?
Clem on you.
i don't think he's posted enough for me to give a clear read or anything yet
but i like him
How fast would you say you normally form reads?
@Clem?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:50 pm
by EGL
I expected his prod to come at 9am tomorrow.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:52 pm
by EGL
What are WIM and WIME, respectively?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:53 pm
by teacher
In post 315, EGL wrote:I expected his prod to come at 9am tomorrow.
Might be right -- the new system is 36 rather than 48, but its half time on weekends so I didnt know how it was running -- full time Friday and half for the weekend (would be when I asked). Either way, figured it couldnt hurt to mention, and Plot would handle it as the great mod he is - accurately.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:55 pm
by teacher
In post 316, EGL wrote:What are WIM and WIME, respectively?
WIM - Want it More. An expression used slightly more commonly on other sites than here. It originally comes from the desire towns normally have more than scum to actually find information and solve the game, whereas scum already have it solved and are just trying to hide. But it also has a connotation of I (slot 1) want slot 2 to continue posting more, because they are helping me and the game state.
WIME - my bad pun/joke.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:57 pm
by EGL
Thanks. I appreciate your analysis. Many good points to think about, especially in regards to a child/dici scum team.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:00 pm
by teacher
EH, do keep in minds that the odds of correctly calling a team are like 4%, and I have yet to do it (though I regularly try).
I do want to talk with you after I talk with Amzela though. After I went through the ISO I have a lot less suspicions than I had before, so we should hash my points out with yours after the fact.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:02 pm
by EGL
Roger Dodger.
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:21 pm
by Amzela
In post 320, teacher wrote:EH, do keep in minds that the odds of correctly calling a team are like 4%, and I have yet to do it (though I regularly try).
I do want to talk with you after I talk with Amzela though. After I went through the ISO I have a lot less suspicions than I had before, so we should hash my points out with yours after the fact.
Speaking of taking. I’ll be probably awake by 11am EST so could we talk then?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:31 pm
by Loopdan
@Clem, What do you think of Teacher's reads?
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:58 pm
by Plotinus
Dicideaq1 has been prodded. They have (expired on 2019-01-01 07:55:00) to post before I start looking for a replacement. This prod is about 4 hours late because I am just waking up. teacher has the algorithm right but I think he was counting in UTC instead of UTC+1. When we were on 48 hours prods I was able to do the weekends halftime math in my head but I just couldn't get used to the 36 hours shedule so I wrote a script for it.
)