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DkKoba
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Post Post #2300  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:45 pm

The setup is a bit wolfsided imo. Info favors finding maf and helps wolves hide by havint legit scumhunting

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Post Post #2301  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:56 pm

In post 2300, DkKoba wrote:The setup is a bit wolfsided imo. Info favors finding maf and helps wolves hide by havint legit scumhunting


This is only true if Mafia doesn't account for it. In theory, Mafia have the full control, but most Mafia would play it safe list wise, which is how Mafia gets outed, and then Wolf just get to hide it.

If Mafia isn't expected to not put themselves on the list, which they always will be in a 1 and done, it probably leans wolfside.

Balance wise, though, play this game 100 times, with all the same people, Wolves probably would win the least.

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Post Post #2302  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:57 pm

Mafia just need to play the WIFOM game to counter wolves who are going to go after them, otherwise it's a Three Way strategy game where both gravitate towards Mafia.

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Post Post #2303  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:02 pm

We would have, had we not lost one D1
Trying to read me? Check my meta. (18-12-2) --- GTKAMURDERCAT

DkKoba
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Post Post #2304  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:30 pm

I modded this setup, wolves dont have the risk of being outted via the list, and also have a green check on their partner, and cant be nightkilled.
Its an advantage for sure.
Mafia win with 3 town lims in a row though. Its auto i think.

Wolves ended up no killing at one point cause they didnt like the list presented, and wanted to keep a towny player around that was on the list who was good at solving.

I'll link the game in a bit. It reached 17k posts :lol: its also linked in dead PT.

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Post Post #2305  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:52 pm

In post 2304, DkKoba wrote:wolves dont have the risk of being outted via the list


If done correctly, neither do Mafia.

DkKoba
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Post Post #2306  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:04 pm

https://epicmafia.com/topic/96337
i think its funny, cause our best scum player, Super, ended up endgaming too. its 17k worth of posts, but if you're in the mood for a good old novel about the game of mafia, feel free to peruse.

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Post Post #2307  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Just make the kill mandatory for the wolves.
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Post Post #2308  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:21 pm

In post 2307, VP Baltar wrote:Just make the kill mandatory for the wolves.

one worry i have with this is that in a night with 1m : 1w : 2t, mafia autowins by putting the other 3 on the list, potentially making it more mafsided

there are a decent number of ways maf can get to the 1:1:2 scenario, for example 1:2:2 is an autoloss for town

DkKoba
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Post Post #2309  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:26 pm

1:2:2 is autowin for mafia.

DkKoba
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Post Post #2310  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:29 pm

i personally made the ruling when I ran the setup that if it got to 1:2:2 during day I would rule it as a mafia win so no kingmaker shenanigans happen.

also 2 town 1 maf 1 wolf is NOT autowin for anyone.

there is 1 path to victory for town:
Eliminate remaining wolf. No more nightkills. You go into 3 way with mafia. lim the mafia.

2 paths for maf
Wolf is limmed. You win 3 way.
Town is limmed. Wolf shoots other town. You win the tie.

and 2 for wolves
Town is Limmed. You shoot mafia.
Mafia is limmed. You just shoot and win.

DkKoba
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Post Post #2311  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:30 pm

In post 2307, VP Baltar wrote:Just make the kill mandatory for the wolves.


this doesn't affect the balance of the setup imo.

during the day you can just send it right back to wolves and force them to kill.

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Post Post #2312  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:31 pm

(assuming the rules are that 3 phases = draw if no actions are taken which is what I used to force the last alignment to have taken inaction to act. I know the norm is to force scum to kill on this site but yknow)

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Post Post #2313  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:33 pm

i don't think we are talking about the same thing but i agree with what you wrote

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Post Post #2314  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

once a faction reaches autoloss, stop counting that faction in the count, and if anyone else reaches a wincon because of it, you award them the win.

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Post Post #2315  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

I'd say thats the fairest way to do it if anything.

innocentvillager
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Post Post #2316  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

In post 2312, DkKoba wrote:(assuming the rules are that 3 phases = draw if no actions are taken which is what I used to force the last alignment to have taken inaction to act. I know the norm is to force scum to kill on this site but yknow)

tbf if i was wolf in this situation and didn't have a really good read on the last mafia i would probably take the draw, lol, odds seem stacked against me to both hit the mafia and win the ELO

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Post Post #2317  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:38 pm

In post 2316, innocentvillager wrote:
In post 2312, DkKoba wrote:(assuming the rules are that 3 phases = draw if no actions are taken which is what I used to force the last alignment to have taken inaction to act. I know the norm is to force scum to kill on this site but yknow)

tbf if i was wolf in this situation and didn't have a really good read on the last mafia i would probably take the draw, lol, odds seem stacked against me to both hit the mafia and win the ELO


i uh, made elimination mandatory in the 2-1-1 scenario so that wouldn't happen cause it was super close to happening in my game and the wolf was considering drawing :lol:

and its a 50/50 shot after you win the 4 way. its probably Mafia that would rather a draw in that case.

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Post Post #2318  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:39 pm

(last mafia wifomed and put themelves in the list and ended up getting killed so it ended up being 3-0-1)

DkKoba
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Post Post #2319  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:44 pm

overall tho, nobody should feel bad. this is a setup where theres gonna be a faction that just gets fucked over hard. to get to lylo like that means town played v well regardless. (and it very well could have been a town win sans the quickhammer)

multiball always gonna be like that. your expected winrate is hovering around 1/3 rather than 1/2. Its gonna be hard and random stuff will screw you over.

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