Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 1.2

With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate

T-Bone - Kerset, Bingle
Klick - Bambi Jay
Bingle - Vex Vience

Note Voting - T-Bone, Klick, Anastasia, Rational Madman, LlamaFluff

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-05-23 22:00:00)

[LlamaFluff]

This is a stark contrast to your type of content from last game Llama
My gut reads that as alignment-indicative. Should it?

No. Last game I was active when the game was active. Now im in after the fact (and about to go to bed) and trying to piece stuff together. Different scenarios entirely. It is different alignment, but even if I wanted not like it could be different in play so far. Office job (yay being old), and as said Thursdays are bad for access until very late.

Im mostly just thinking about pre-game topics and I think without my prodding that scum last game would have had to ad-lib what happened on the spot (if/when it gets released you will see that) so far my best read is Ana being afraid of me reads town as there is little reason to be afraid of a player they have never had any experience with playing town before, but reason to be afraid of a player who as scum was getting called town, if they themselves are town.

[RationalMadman]

I didn't say Cultists can't convert, I said Lovers can't unlike sime forms of Mason which is a mechanical difference.

I also am quite sure it's a slip still but waa open to give the benefit of doubt. If you're scum and followed the mental oarh 'I wanna refer tonthe thread the Town pair use' and were under severe pressure, you'd probably alip away ng 'mason thread' especially of it felt mechanically identical to you. Why would Bingle as a Lover not say Lover thread? He never said mason PT until then correct? I am genuinely asking I may have missed it this or last game somewhere.

[RationalMadman]

Slip saying* 'mason thread*

*Path

[RationalMadman]

Mental path*

[RationalMadman]

I never said we have a cult, I need a break anyway this is getting ridiculous but I townread it being ridiculous because Vex is ridiculous as Town so honestly for me the Vanilla scum is between Bambi and Llama. Vex is more likely Town for suddenly defending Bingle after scumreading Bingle over a genuine error that I can't believe isn't either an accident or a genuine slip made by someone trying to lie and coming up with the wrong role name... Yeah, I think I have no choice to Townread this kind of flipflop by Vex, since it fits with their Town meta last game, as does the tunneling nature of the original interaction.

I will take a break for around two hours at least.

:thorface:

I'm either a scum lover or a town lover or an impressively massive idiot who managed to convince my scumteam to play a truly insanely ballsy gambit with no upside. How would my somehow forgetting my own role name be scum indicative?

No, Vex can be Town vs you as Scum. Pretty simple third alternative to a bus that still leaves you as Scum, what kind of retort is that anyway? Are you saying it's intuitive and more probable that you did this as Lover who called their Lover PT a Mason thread?

[RationalMadman]

Team is Ker/Bing and one of Bambi or Llama most probably.

However, Bingle outs an explicit townread on Bambi twice, idk why but this makes me wonder if he'd do that to jisbpartner... Bing/Ker/Llama is one viable team for sure and the one I'm thinking is the case rn but Bing/Ker/Bambi is just as viable.

Klick/T-bone/Vex is viable.

Vex thinks he's Towny when he types a lot and attacks+defends even flexing to me gow Townread he wasnlast game, so Vex as Scum probably just does the same thing but perhaps with less ferocity, which is the case this game.

[RationalMadman]

I feel the interaction between Klick and Llama was organic here in the last page's ending to this one, so I don't see them as a team. Bambi is viable on both teams and is posting very little other than fluff so far.

[Klick]

I've only just realised how difficult this game is for town. At first I thought this was pretty townsided because it's two sets of 2v1s and scum's wincon was to survive to the end of one of them. But actually, if town makes one mistake here, it's already MyLo/LyLo the next day. Scum definitely have the advantage in terms of their level of influence just due to sheer numbers.

To offset this, we could potentially agree to something where the person eliminated decides who is eliminated after them? The odds of one townie/town lover pair being correct in their 50/50 are higher than the odds of successfully voting one of that 50/50 as a group in XLo.

Thoughts?

[Klick]

Reading more in-depth, as of Page 5 I'm leaning Kerset-Bingle as scum over RM-Ana. RM feels basically the same as last game, free with his thoughts, not a clear agenda other than solving. Ana isn't doing much other than complaining about RM as a partner and fawning over Kerset, and I almost feel as though she'd feel more of a... I guess, 'responsibility' to carry RM as a scum buddy than she would if they were town together? Something about Ana/RM being 2/3 of her mafia team instead of 2/6 of the town. I think her resignation is more likely to come from the former than the latter.
Meanwhile so far Kerset is doing literally nothing to advance the game and a quick ISO shows that that doesn't change.

[RationalMadman]

Vex thinks

they're

Towny when

they

type a lot and attacks+defends even flexing to me gow Townread he was last game, so Vex as Scum probably just does the same thing but perhaps with less ferocity, which is the case this game.

I am very sorry for this error.

I have corrected pronouns.

[RationalMadman]

I've only just realised how difficult this game is for town. At first I thought this was pretty townsided because it's two sets of 2v1s and scum's wincon was to survive to the end of one of them. But actually, if town makes one mistake here, it's already MyLo/LyLo the next day. Scum definitely have the advantage in terms of their level of influence just due to sheer numbers.

It is initially townsided if it wasn't for the wincon of a lack of vanilla Townies resulting in autoloss for Town.

Because of that unique wincon, it means that the fake Lover and fake Vanilla both have equal chance to carry scum to victory.

The reason this is not Townsided is also that there is absolutely no investigative role.

The lack of night periods is also fair on Town because it allows equally for one wrong elimination of either trio (lover pairs or vanilla soloists)

[RationalMadman]

Vex thinks they're Towny when they type a lot and attacks+defends even flexing to me how Townread they were last game, so Vex as Scum probably just does the same thing but perhaps with less ferocity, which is the case this game.

One thing I'd like to add to this is that bussing doesn't interfere with town telling as scum, it compliments it incredibly well if you're the one to survive it.

[Kerset]

I like how everyone expect me to carry this game. Meanwhile all people do is saying "i like pair X/Y more then Z/A". Nobody adds real effort, just surface thoughts but i am expected to solve this game already.

[Kerset]

@Kerset, Bingle, Bambi - Please explain your vote split over a single pair.

to compare T-Bone reaction

[Klick]

VOTE: Kerset

[Kerset]

klick, towncase T-bone for me

[RationalMadman]

I town read Kerset's last two posts but I scumread Bingle this game especially after that reaction to calling it a mason thread.

I am willing to vote Bingle and Kerset if it is agreed that them flipping scum means we vote Bambi and Llama next. That is honestly the best path to victory.

If it's actually Klick and T-Bone I do not realistically know who the Goon amongst the solos is and therefore I want to wait for this vote because at present, I am not certain on my read in Lovers. It is best to let the vanillas contribute a lot more (well not Vex, the other two) so that Day Phase Two can reveal alot. I also am open to us voting Vanillas/solists instead of Lovers first, this also means if it's wrong Town is at less of an influence-deficit in terms of vocal players that can determine the next vote. I'd prefer today to be Bambi vs Llama as I am quite sure of the lone scum being between them.

[RationalMadman]

When I said last two, Kerset hadn't asked about towncase for Tbone, I townread that post as well.

[RationalMadman]

The flip won't reveal much for DP2 of we miseliminate here on lovers, with regards to vanilla claims, since two of them have barely interacted.

[RationalMadman]

And yes I just said I townread Vex on balance. Vex has behaved similar toblast game in multiple ways.

[T-Bone]

klick, towncase T-bone for me

Wait wait wait I got this one.

Cause I'm confirmed town to Klick.

Gottem

[T-Bone]

@Ana, what do you make of the VV/me back and forth?

I read players by motivation, tone, and substance.

I don't understand your motivation to argue with him on this point.

Something I see often is scum trying to argue to be

right

instead of argue about alignment.

Because they don't have to fake being right, it's something they really believe inside.

So I tend to scum-read people who argue about things that are pointless.

The way you did it with VV, I'm not sure what either of you are trying to accomplish if you're town in that argument.

So it's possible that this is some kind of scum-theatre where you argue with him about something meaningless but with enough intensity that later we think you can't be aligned when one of you and him flips.

I'll see at the end if this intuition is right or not.

I will avoid thinking you could be scum for now because it would be painful for me to think my Kerset could be scum.

I agree with nearly everything in this post....except that I will not avoid thinking that Bingle/Kerset is the scum pair, because at this point, they are the ones I believe are scum. I'm actually also leaning VV as the goon, but I don't feel as strongly atm.

[Bingle]

No, Vex can be Town vs you as Scum. Pretty simple third alternative to a bus that still leaves you as Scum, what kind of retort is that anyway? Are you saying it's intuitive and more probable that you did this as Lover who called their Lover PT a Mason thread?

Vex’s alignment has literally nothing to do with the slip.

Regardless of anything else, my role pm has the word lover.

Regardless of anything else, the town lovers are functionally masons.

Literally no one agrees with your nonsense reason for tunneling me.

Maybe consider that, and then look at the thread again with an open mind.

[Bingle]

I've only just realised how difficult this game is for town. At first I thought this was pretty townsided because it's two sets of 2v1s and scum's wincon was to survive to the end of one of them. But actually, if town makes one mistake here, it's already MyLo/LyLo the next day. Scum definitely have the advantage in terms of their level of influence just due to sheer numbers.

To offset this, we could potentially agree to something where the person eliminated decides who is eliminated after them? The odds of one townie/town lover pair being correct in their 50/50 are higher than the odds of successfully voting one of that 50/50 as a group in XLo.

Thoughts?

It is literally a solved EV that yes posted publicly. Town has a 4/9 chance. Once we’ve committed to a lim, we solve within that pool if we’re wrong.