Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]


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Post Post #2050 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:39 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2047, implosion wrote:I think copping Shirou would be a slightly odd thing for scum-tejate to come up with the idea to suggest.
eh really? I kinda think trying to make me people cop me for ~paranoia~ is kinda very pro-scum because it wouldn't really clear anyone from the miselimination pool so...it's kinda a solid thing for scum to recommend/suggest/think about?

Maybe you're talking about how Tejate wouldn't come up with this idea because of his personality or experience, but I would kinda disagree anyway, he was already on the trajectory of reconsidering me.
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"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2051 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:49 pm

Post by implosion »

re: GL : a couple things. One, I feel like this is turning a little bit into the debate trope of the single point where contention was able to be found and I want to de-emphasize it a little as such because it's not like everything or even that much in general rests on the point to me.

Two, I think the core of my issue with that exchange at this point isn't about you scumreading or not scumreading ceph or whatever per se but about you specifically voting someone based on an assumption that Ceph is town, immediately after stating your suspicion (and like I briefly mentioned, I also think it's strange at that point in the game to make a vote specifically based on reasoning that assumes multiple people are town in the first place). Like sure, maybe your opinions change faster than mine but I just feel like the thought process that goes into voting someone specifically under the assumption that they'd make sense as scum if Ceph is town, would not come that quickly after you felt suspicion on Ceph.

I could maybe wax more about this but meh. The point kind of bores me a little at this point.

Regarding redtea and , hell no i wouldn't bet the game on them being town. You should clearly be able to see that I'm more confident in you being scum than redtea from my recent reads list. I wouldn't call my read on redtea an assumption that they're town and I certainly don't consider my read on you contingent on them being town in any way; you'd make perfectly fine sense as a partner.
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Post Post #2052 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:50 pm

Post by implosion »

In post 2027, morph the cat wrote:
In post 2011, Tejate Raichu wrote:
In post 2010, morph the cat wrote:
In post 2005, Tejate Raichu wrote:Good afternoon, I've thought about it a bit and I have come to a conclusion.

VOTE: implosion

Explanation coming whenever I'm done writing it, have some patience.
You have implosion as a null-town read in your last reads list, which was about 2 calendar days ago, I think.
Did I not also state that he would probably be the first person I'd bump down given some re-thinking?
It's a rather significant bump. I look forward to the explanation!
Or just not active in thread atm?
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Post Post #2053 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:52 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2048, MegAzumarill wrote:Alright I know it's been like 3 years since you joined but you do realize playstyle changes the most drastically when you first join the site? I don't take it as AI for a number of reasons.

I did the exact same thing Tejate is doing my first 2 games. The first was a newbie where I was headstrong and wrong and the second was a 13 player game where I was more reserved and ended up being LHF.
I would think his behavior is scummy even without the meta. What part of that you didn't understand? The meta just made me get more confident on it but I would still likely start scum reading him at some point because it was bugging me since early game even though I tried hard to look past into it due to his seemingly inexperience?
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"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2054 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:54 pm

Post by implosion »

In post 2050, Shirou wrote:
In post 2047, implosion wrote:I think copping Shirou would be a slightly odd thing for scum-tejate to come up with the idea to suggest.
eh really? I kinda think trying to make me people cop me for ~paranoia~ is kinda very pro-scum because it wouldn't really clear anyone from the miselimination pool so...it's kinda a solid thing for scum to recommend/suggest/think about?

Maybe you're talking about how Tejate wouldn't come up with this idea because of his personality or experience, but I would kinda disagree anyway, he was already on the trajectory of reconsidering me.
I don't think he's likely to come up with the idea as scum, yeah, feels like the kind of thing relatively new scum would have to think fairly out of the box to say.

Also notably if relevant for later, this is probably a really strong anti partner tell (if you're both scum it'd be quite wild for tejate to suggest this)
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Post Post #2055 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:57 pm

Post by Shirou »

You know

Meg really sounds like someone that knows Tejate is town and is getting themselves ready to shade/blame people tomorrow if Tejate flips green.

Not that I think Tejate is town but eh. Meg's posts are increasingly bugging me. It's hard to believe they do believe on what they are saying at some points, their logic is so...weird sometimes?
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2056 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:59 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2054, implosion wrote:Also notably if relevant for later, this is probably a really strong anti partner tell (if you're both scum it'd be quite wild for tejate to suggest this)
oh I agree with this one kkkkk?

if I was scum I would be trying to avoid cop checks like the plague, although I also am trying to avoid they as town because it's just sub-optimal from my pov.
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2057 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:00 pm

Post by Shirou »

about the GL vs Implo thing...huh, not much changed about what they are saying since last time I talked about it so I'm gonna let it sit there yeah
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2058 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:02 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

Tejate being town isn't actually relevant to your logic being bad and I think you know it's bad
Imprefection is the spice of life.
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Post Post #2059 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:08 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2058, MegAzumarill wrote:Tejate being town isn't actually relevant to your logic being bad and I think you know it's bad
?

it's not bad, scum whiteknighting mislim bait is sometimes a classic scum tell

dunno what you're talking about
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2060 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:09 pm

Post by implosion »

Meg I'm having a lot of trouble following your logic. You asked Shirou to condense their case, which they did, and then you basically objected to the condensed case on the grounds that it was only based on one thing. Which it was, because it was condensed.
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Post Post #2061 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:09 pm

Post by implosion »

(not on the grounds that it was only based on one thing, on the grounds that it was only based on a thing that you disagreed with, specifically meta of a new player comparing between some of their first games on site)
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Post Post #2062 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:13 pm

Post by Shirou »

If Meg says what I think they are gonna say about my last post I'm death tunneling I think

I intentionally left it there just for a sanity check
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"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2063 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:21 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2048, MegAzumarill wrote:Alright I know it's been like 3 years since you joined
wait...how do you know this?
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2064 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:21 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

Shirou have you even scumcased me or is this omgus

Like even if you don't understand my point why do you think it's Ai (I get the tejate thing but do you have anything else?)

@implo
The problem I have with shirou is threefold. 1. I think their case is bad. 2. They are leveraging the case in a way which would be more beneficial to scum than a traditional approach, assuming tejate is town. 3. They contribute a lot in a way that is both noncommittal and noninquisitivr, or when they are inquisitive they don't seem to actually care about the answers.
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Post Post #2065 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:27 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2064, MegAzumarill wrote:Shirou have you even scumcased me or is this omgus
I swear to god you can't be actually reading the game...

Spoiler: My progression on Meg through my past posts. Dunno if I missed any.
In post 1661, Shirou wrote:if it's not a hard scumread why are you vanity voting on her rather than trying to settle for one of the top consensus suspects?

We aren't eliminating Ydrasse today, I think that should be clear from the gamestate right now?

You've also read the entire game up to now but literally no comment on imaginality/redtea dilemma? That's weird as fuck tbh.

The last time you mentioned redtea was on your two initial readlists and they were on the bottom, but you doesn't seem interested in their wagon at all?

You read the game but rather than have any takes about the main topics you only vote ydrasse that is currently sick and that's it?
In post 1665, Shirou wrote:
you didn't try to interact with anyone or anything before I called you out. You voted Ydrasse and that was it.
In post 1832, Shirou wrote:I think town for sure would have had something to say about the two top wagons that had been discussed so much...but he didn't say or do anything other than a vanity vote on Ydrasse. I can't help but be weirded out by that.
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
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Post Post #2066 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:29 pm

Post by Shirou »

how can it be omgus when I began scum reading you first anyway

like wtf

are you attempting to create a narrative here?

if anything YOUR vote/suspicious is more of a OMGUS than mine.
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2067 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:29 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

I don't see how that's AI
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Post Post #2068 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:31 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

Like that doesn't even read like a scumread either
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Post Post #2069 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:31 pm

Post by Shirou »

Shirou: "oh I scum read you *votes*"

Meg: "hah! I scum read you as well!"

Shirou: "ogey I'll entertain you"

*later on*

Meg: "Are you OMGUS'ing me?"

someone explain the logic here as if I'm 5
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"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
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Post Post #2070 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:33 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

I don't feel like continuing this conversation is +town regardless of your alignment at this point.
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Post Post #2071 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:35 pm

Post by Shirou »

In post 2067, MegAzumarill wrote:I don't see how that's AI
In post 2068, MegAzumarill wrote:Like that doesn't even read like a scumread either
I'm starting to laugh now

You're basically just sitting there saying that both my cases on you and Tejate aren't AI because...you simply disagree on it, that's it. They are invalid because you think differently about it apparently, even when most people are voting/suspecting Tejate and I assume it's for similar reasons to mine.

and how can it NOT be a scum read when I say more or less "if (you) were town I think you would..." about you?

Your arguments/points are so...sigh
いつだってヒーロー。

"listen i know its funny to say shirou is scum but shirou is just literally crazy"
~Firebringer on town!Shirou
"Not if it was Volpe's PLAN all along that we lim him and when he flips red we think Wooper is scum"
~town!Norwee jokes about scum!Shirou's actual plan
(Aka Volpe14)
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Post Post #2072 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:36 pm

Post by morph the cat »

In post 2052, implosion wrote:
In post 2027, morph the cat wrote:
In post 2011, Tejate Raichu wrote:
In post 2010, morph the cat wrote:
In post 2005, Tejate Raichu wrote:Good afternoon, I've thought about it a bit and I have come to a conclusion.

VOTE: implosion

Explanation coming whenever I'm done writing it, have some patience.
You have implosion as a null-town read in your last reads list, which was about 2 calendar days ago, I think.
Did I not also state that he would probably be the first person I'd bump down given some re-thinking?
It's a rather significant bump. I look forward to the explanation!
Or just not active in thread atm?
I'm here-ish and being a little blinkered about where I focus because I'm apparently still in recovery mode from the infamous Newbie game we keep referencing. :/

I didn't notice your post to us or I would have responded to it. I'm kinda still in the mode that I adopted in the latter third of Day 1, of observing without trying to force myself into a conclusion on you and GL as sort of an antidote to being extra-suspicious of you both coming into the game.

I'm a little grumpy that neither you nor GL were copped night 1. Like I said earlier, I see why numberQ picked ceph to cop, and I would probably have used a n1 cop on one of my players of greatest concern even if I was p much alone in that concern. My predisposition is to play investigative PRs like the ability is a vig kill. I don't always follow-through, but it's where my head starts. And I should mention that I hero-shoot as vig, and don't usually go after null-ish reads.

Your approach of taking GLs posts in the worst possible light was offputting to read. I'm curious how you go about reeling that back in and trying to look more objectively. You've said you are doing that (or something like that -- maybe my interpretation isn't great) or are going to do that, but if it's happening, it wasn't evident to me in your posts this afternoon.

I feel like GL is taking a wider view of the game than you are, and I tend to townread a wider view in isolation, though town tunneling is a thing and keeping the elim-pool wide has value to scum.

Basically, right now I wouldn't shed a tear about either of you being today's elim, but I want to get to a point where I do shed a tear or shout huzzah. Cabd mentioned our propensity for developing townreads on players getting hammered hard in a game, and then kicking the wheels of their wagons.

Tejate is the kind of player who would warrant that kind of defense if we ever get to the point where we have a strong townread on him.

I have difficulty fathoming the level of meh I feel about this game right now.
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Post Post #2073 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:37 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

In post 2005, Tejate Raichu wrote:Good afternoon, I've thought about it a bit and I have come to a conclusion.

VOTE: implosion

Explanation coming whenever I'm done writing it, have some patience.
Interested in this
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Post Post #2074 (ISO) » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:39 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 2055, Shirou wrote:You know

Meg really sounds like someone that knows Tejate is town and is getting themselves ready to shade/blame people tomorrow if Tejate flips green.

Not that I think Tejate is town but eh. Meg's posts are increasingly bugging me. It's hard to believe they do believe on what they are saying at some points, their logic is so...weird sometimes?
I was thinking about whether this is a WK, but the thing is I don't know if scum!Meg needs or wants to go to bat for town!Tejate this hard, feels like if Tejate is town then scum are more likely to just let town drive that wagon without needing to get too involved given fua and Ceph are both on it

Meg feels insistent on trying to pick this fight with you without caring how it looks, what does he gain from this as scum really? I don't think it's going to save Tejate if they're buddies either
In post 2060, implosion wrote:Meg I'm having a lot of trouble following your logic. You asked Shirou to condense their case, which they did, and then you basically objected to the condensed case on the grounds that it was only based on one thing. Which it was, because it was condensed.
100% agree with this point
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