Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)
- Alianna
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Alianna She/HerDeath by 1000 Pagetops
- Alianna
She/Her- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Posts: 4208
- Joined: February 23, 2022
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Land of the Freeze
- furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades
- furtiveglance
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8683
- Joined: January 29, 2022
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UK
- Flea The Magician
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Flea The Magician Fae/FaerJack of All Trades
- Flea The Magician
Fae/Faer- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7095
- Joined: September 30, 2020
- Pronoun: Fae/Faer
Nuance is a powerful thing and something you seem to lack.In post 696, furtiveglance wrote:I can't really strip quote without breaking the post so I'll respond down here.
The most important point here is that half of the players in the game are now analysing yesterday's vote in an unhelpful way. The fact is that I correctly townread Titus and wanted to keep them in the game yesterday. I maintain that Alianna has high scum equity. Using the setup with a pre-destined nightkill to limit today's functional scumpool to me/Malcolm/Cat is a really strange choice for a few reasons. Firstly, mafia would know that people would be looking at who defended the nightkill, so if I was mafia, I wouldn't have done that. Besides, having even numbers being bad for mafia is a complete myth. It's actually better for mafia to have even numbers as long as it stays that way until Elo.
Bottom line is if I was scum in this game I'd vote Titus yesterday to seem unaware that they were the nightkill and probably use it as a springboard to push people who were off the wagon the next day. It's interesting to see who's doing that today.
I'm not sure why 566 makes you think I'm mafia. It seems like it just annoys you for being a lecture.
The fact you correctly townread Titus is nothing, so did I for most of the day until she took a stupidly bad take which is odd for her and ngl I'm a lil worried about her.
Even Numbers is abslutely better for mafia, that was never in dispute.
Bottom line in self-meta and saying what scum you would do is NAI - the weight you put there however, is AI. Your whole defence again is "I don't play like that."
566 is just a shitty post and I could be inclined to say its a mislim setup. Frankly I don't think you're that stupid.Wanna see how to use my pronouns? Click here -- Or here if you just wanna see fae/faer used in context.
Songs I have used in catchupsDo you wanna get to know me? Like are you really sure about that? GTKAS!█████████████████████████
Anything signed is from alters.- furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades
- furtiveglance
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8683
- Joined: January 29, 2022
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UK
If Even Numbers is better for mafia then, why are you saying mafia wouldn't vote the nightkill?In post 702, Flea The Magician wrote:
Nuance is a powerful thing and something you seem to lack.In post 696, furtiveglance wrote:I can't really strip quote without breaking the post so I'll respond down here.
The most important point here is that half of the players in the game are now analysing yesterday's vote in an unhelpful way. The fact is that I correctly townread Titus and wanted to keep them in the game yesterday. I maintain that Alianna has high scum equity. Using the setup with a pre-destined nightkill to limit today's functional scumpool to me/Malcolm/Cat is a really strange choice for a few reasons. Firstly, mafia would know that people would be looking at who defended the nightkill, so if I was mafia, I wouldn't have done that. Besides, having even numbers being bad for mafia is a complete myth. It's actually better for mafia to have even numbers as long as it stays that way until Elo.
Bottom line is if I was scum in this game I'd vote Titus yesterday to seem unaware that they were the nightkill and probably use it as a springboard to push people who were off the wagon the next day. It's interesting to see who's doing that today.
I'm not sure why 566 makes you think I'm mafia. It seems like it just annoys you for being a lecture.
The fact you correctly townread Titus is nothing, so did I for most of the day until she took a stupidly bad take which is odd for her and ngl I'm a lil worried about her.
Even Numbers is abslutely better for mafia, that was never in dispute.
Bottom line in self-meta and saying what scum you would do is NAI - the weight you put there however, is AI. Your whole defence again is "I don't play like that."
566 is just a shitty post and I could be inclined to say its a mislim setup. Frankly I don't think you're that stupid.- furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades
- furtiveglance
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8683
- Joined: January 29, 2022
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UK
- Cat.Jpeg
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Cat.Jpeg They/sheGoon
- Cat.Jpeg
They/she- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 394
- Joined: March 21, 2022
- Pronoun: They/she
- Location: Catland
My brain is kinda frazzled right now but even though I disagree with a lot of what furtive says I think they are town. Its mostly going off vibes but I don't think scum would play like this. Malcolm seems a lot more calculated and could be partnered RR. I havent read enough to see if i think they look like a pair but I think malcolm townreads them.- MegAzumarill
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MegAzumarill She/HerJack of All Trades
- MegAzumarill
She/Her- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5470
- Joined: July 14, 2021
- Pronoun: She/Her
Vote Count 2.1.1
furtiveglance (2*) Flea the Magician, Alianna
Dunnstrall (1) MalcolmTucker
Not Voting (5) furtiveglance, GoldfishFromtheMoon, Radical Rat, Dunnstrall, Cat.jpeg,
With 8 votes it takes 5* to make someone sleep with the fishes.
(expired on 2022-05-21 01:16:31)
Last edited by MegAzumarill on Wed May 18, 2022 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.Imprefection is the spice of life.- Radical Rat
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All Trades
- Radical Rat
They/Them- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6455
- Joined: November 22, 2015
- Pronoun: They/Them
- Location: Space Colony ARK
And yet they do, all the time. In some cases, using this very defense!In post 704, furtiveglance wrote:I also disagree about my defence. It's less 'I wouldn't do that' and more 'No one would do that'.
VOTE: furtiveglance
I think I'm willing to settle here. Over the past few phases I've said probably as much as I can say here. I was holding off because I know I'm prone to confirmation bias tunneling, but no matter how I try to look at the game right now, it all comes back to furtive. I just cannot imagine a scenario in which this flips Town- Flea The Magician
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Flea The Magician Fae/FaerJack of All Trades
- Flea The Magician
Fae/Faer- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7095
- Joined: September 30, 2020
- Pronoun: Fae/Faer
I pull some weird fucking plays but even I know I'm this setup scum need to secure this game asapIn post 703, furtiveglance wrote:
If Even Numbers is better for mafia then, why are you saying mafia wouldn't vote the nightkill?In post 702, Flea The Magician wrote:
Nuance is a powerful thing and something you seem to lack.In post 696, furtiveglance wrote:I can't really strip quote without breaking the post so I'll respond down here.
The most important point here is that half of the players in the game are now analysing yesterday's vote in an unhelpful way. The fact is that I correctly townread Titus and wanted to keep them in the game yesterday. I maintain that Alianna has high scum equity. Using the setup with a pre-destined nightkill to limit today's functional scumpool to me/Malcolm/Cat is a really strange choice for a few reasons. Firstly, mafia would know that people would be looking at who defended the nightkill, so if I was mafia, I wouldn't have done that. Besides, having even numbers being bad for mafia is a complete myth. It's actually better for mafia to have even numbers as long as it stays that way until Elo.
Bottom line is if I was scum in this game I'd vote Titus yesterday to seem unaware that they were the nightkill and probably use it as a springboard to push people who were off the wagon the next day. It's interesting to see who's doing that today.
I'm not sure why 566 makes you think I'm mafia. It seems like it just annoys you for being a lecture.
The fact you correctly townread Titus is nothing, so did I for most of the day until she took a stupidly bad take which is odd for her and ngl I'm a lil worried about her.
Even Numbers is abslutely better for mafia, that was never in dispute.
Bottom line in self-meta and saying what scum you would do is NAI - the weight you put there however, is AI. Your whole defence again is "I don't play like that."
566 is just a shitty post and I could be inclined to say its a mislim setup. Frankly I don't think you're that stupid.Wanna see how to use my pronouns? Click here -- Or here if you just wanna see fae/faer used in context.
Songs I have used in catchupsDo you wanna get to know me? Like are you really sure about that? GTKAS!█████████████████████████
Anything signed is from alters.- MalcolmTucker
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MalcolmTucker Mafia Scum
- MalcolmTucker
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2354
- Joined: January 9, 2022
Sorry for quoting the whole thing - but probably easier since the game has moved on a fair bit and I'd not replied yet: I'd personally have my main scum team down as Alianna/Dunn at the moment personally.In post 688, Flea The Magician wrote:
Why?In post 659, furtiveglance wrote:Great. I think Alianna is the best vote for today, just ahead of Radical Rat.
VOTE: Alianna
How the heck did you get to 4?In post 668, furtiveglance wrote:
These reads are really strange.In post 664, Dunnstral wrote:
Towny: Goldfish, Alianna, FleaIn post 662, Cat.Jpeg wrote:@Dunnstral can you give a readlist and explian some of your thought process? I feel like most of your posts are about if we should double elim or not or defending your vote on Titus. I don't scumread you for voting Titus and originally to me her posts looked very scummy but I had more of a gut feeling that she was town, I get why you voted her though. What I do scumread you for is the lack of solve-driven input from you and the lack of expressing any townreads.
Null: Radical Rat, radital cat
Scummy: FurtiveGlance, Malcolm
That is where I am at with reads
As for thought process, what do you want to know?
You think that:
1) Yesterday was town/town
2) I knew that and didn't want to condemn the nightkill
3) I loudly townread the nightkill and begged for a pivot to another town
4) Malcolm and I have paired openly and townread each other all game as the worst scumteam ever
Scumcase me. How did you get here?
Break down the associatives you have for me.In post 670, MalcolmTucker wrote:
Yeah Alianna/Dunn would strike me as the most likely team right now, albeit with the caveat sometimes hard to be 100% confident with associatives.In post 669, furtiveglance wrote:
I agree that I need to throw out Alianna/Radical Rat, after the inform thing.In post 665, MalcolmTucker wrote:I think Alianna would be a better elimination than RR of those two. I've not been particularly keen on RR's push for Alianna to be informed but I reckon it'd have been too blatant for a scum partnership to pull off personally. I disagree with RR's read on Alianna but it's probably a genuine, if flawed, one.
I'd also quite happily vote for Dunn, I reckon there's a decent chance we hit scum there.
I think it makes for Alianna/Dunnstral or Dunnstral/Radical Rat, which would put Dunnstral in my focus.
If IIn post 676, furtiveglance wrote:Question for everyone. If you had to vote either Dunnstral or Radical Rat today, who would you vote?hadto, Dunn.
You could potentially be partners with Alianna as well, although I think your play has generally been a bit more townie even if I disagree with you on certain reads, I feeel like you've made a genuine effort to solve in the past few pages after you were partially absent for legit reasons.
Cat could still be mafia I guess, but not seeing an obvious team there at the moment.
This is also partially why I struggle to see Furtive mafia in this scenario - struggle to see who would be their partner given I TR Goldfish and Furtive has probably TR'd them a bit too strongly for the two of them to be partners alongside each other.- furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades
- furtiveglance
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8683
- Joined: January 29, 2022
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UK
I'm at E-2 out of nowhere. That means at least 1 town is voting for me, probably 2.
I feel wronged. I'm trying to solve, I'm being open, I'm giving reads.
I called Titus town and you killed them anyway, so you guys haven't helped me solve at all.
What I'm saying is that I think I'm playing well, townreading town and scumreading scum, and other town aren't playing as well.
I thought I was a pretty likely nightkill, but judging by today scum probably think they can condemn me off the back of a bad start.
I've kind of gone off Alianna being scum, I'm seeing Dunnstral/Radical Rat right now.
The worst vote on me comes from Radical Rat. 707 ^^ looks really sneaky and desperate to appear uninformed by talking about confbias and stuff.
I think town will lose if I'm eliminated today, it's as simple as that for me.
I'd love a Radical Rat vote today, maybe even more than a Dunnstral vote. But I do think Dunnstral is likely scum as well.
Practically we have a problem with today's vote. Flea/Alianna/RR/Dunnstral will all end up voting me, whereas me/Malcolm/Cat/Goldfish will vote the counter - either Dunnstral or RR.
Dunnstral, would you vote for Radical Rat instead of me?
Alianna, will you vote either Dunnstral or RR?- Flea The Magician
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Flea The Magician Fae/FaerJack of All Trades
- Flea The Magician
Fae/Faer- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7095
- Joined: September 30, 2020
- Pronoun: Fae/Faer
Calling Titus town gets you nothing. No credit, no free pass, no get out of jail free card.In post 710, furtiveglance wrote:I'm at E-2 out of nowhere. That means at least 1 town is voting for me, probably 2.
I feel wronged. I'm trying to solve, I'm being open, I'm giving reads.
I called Titus town and you killed them anyway, so you guys haven't helped me solve at all.
I do actually agree with you on the RR vote, but RR seems to have same kinda mindset as I do currently.In post 710, furtiveglance wrote:What I'm saying is that I think I'm playing well, townreading town and scumreading scum, and other town aren't playing as well.
I thought I was a pretty likely nightkill, but judging by today scum probably think they can condemn me off the back of a bad start.
I've kind of gone off Alianna being scum, I'm seeing Dunnstral/Radical Rat right now.
The worst vote on me comes from Radical Rat. 707 ^^ looks really sneaky and desperate to appear uninformed by talking about confbias and stuff.
Then fight. Make it so you're needed for town, make it so you make sense and have good presence. Cause all you've done is extrapolate and dismiss others foundations.In post 710, furtiveglance wrote:I think town will lose if I'm eliminated today, it's as simple as that for me.
Convince me otherwise, there's others I'm happy to vote for other than you currently.In post 710, furtiveglance wrote:I'd love a Radical Rat vote today, maybe even more than a Dunnstral vote. But I do think Dunnstral is likely scum as well.
Practically we have a problem with today's vote. Flea/Alianna/RR/Dunnstral will all end up voting me, whereas me/Malcolm/Cat/Goldfish will vote the counter - either Dunnstral or RR.
You think Dunn is scummy and seeing if they'll vote RR, then just asking Alianna to save you somehow? Stuff like this is why you're failing vibe checks.In post 710, furtiveglance wrote:Dunnstral, would you vote for Radical Rat instead of me?
Alianna, will you vote either Dunnstral or RR?Wanna see how to use my pronouns? Click here -- Or here if you just wanna see fae/faer used in context.
Songs I have used in catchupsDo you wanna get to know me? Like are you really sure about that? GTKAS!█████████████████████████
Anything signed is from alters.- furtiveglance
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furtiveglance He/HimJack of All Trades
- furtiveglance
He/Him- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8683
- Joined: January 29, 2022
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: UK
- Dunnstral
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Dunnstral he/himGoodfellas
- Dunnstral
he/him- Goodfellas
- Goodfellas
- Posts: 39786
- Joined: April 2, 2016
- Pronoun: he/him
- MegAzumarill
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MegAzumarill She/HerJack of All Trades
- MegAzumarill
She/Her- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5470
- Joined: July 14, 2021
- Pronoun: She/Her
- GoldfishFromTheMoon
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GoldfishFromTheMoon She/He/They/XeGoon
- GoldfishFromTheMoon
She/He/They/Xe- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 537
- Joined: March 7, 2022
- Pronoun: She/He/They/Xe
- Location: The sea of tranquility
Hi I exist.
Sorry for inactivity,
Thoughts coming on various posts.- GoldfishFromTheMoon
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GoldfishFromTheMoon She/He/They/XeGoon
- GoldfishFromTheMoon
She/He/They/Xe- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 537
- Joined: March 7, 2022
- Pronoun: She/He/They/Xe
- Location: The sea of tranquility
Ok so furtive I still think you're town but some of your recent play really doesn't make sense. Below is a breakdown of 710:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:- Alianna
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Alianna She/HerDeath by 1000 Pagetops
- Alianna
She/Her- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Posts: 4208
- Joined: February 23, 2022
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Land of the Freeze
The other main point I had planned to bring up about furtive was that their progression on me was odd. They pivoted onto me very quickly and just decided their mind was made up. Perhaps I'm placing too much weight on past games, but this is not what I would expect from someone who has misread me before. I was going to say the unvote was opportunistic, but after re-reading the post I don't think I can say that with any certainty.
I see that furtive posted some other stuff, so I'm going to read through that now.I townread Alianna.
Post #1000s Collected: 22
On hiatus from playing.- Alianna
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Alianna She/HerDeath by 1000 Pagetops
- Alianna
She/Her- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Posts: 4208
- Joined: February 23, 2022
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Land of the Freeze
I really don't think that's true. There are clear benefits to not voting out the NK target. I cannot for the life of me come up with the words to explain why but this feels like you did that.In post 704, furtiveglance wrote:I also disagree about my defence. It's less 'I wouldn't do that' and more 'No one would do that'.I townread Alianna.
Post #1000s Collected: 22
On hiatus from playing.- Alianna
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Alianna She/HerDeath by 1000 Pagetops
- Alianna
She/Her- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Posts: 4208
- Joined: February 23, 2022
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Land of the Freeze
Okay, so this is interesting.
If I'm wrong and you're town, I'm going to feel really bad about voting you. If you're scum, congrats, the AtE almost worked.In post 710, furtiveglance wrote:I'm at E-2 out of nowhere. That means at least 1 town is voting for me, probably 2.
I feel wronged. I'm trying to solve, I'm being open, I'm giving reads.
I called Titus town and you killed them anyway, so you guys haven't helped me solve at all.
What I'm saying is that I think I'm playing well, townreading town and scumreading scum, and other town aren't playing as well.
I thought I was a pretty likely nightkill, but judging by today scum probably think they can condemn me off the back of a bad start.
I've kind of gone off Alianna being scum, I'm seeing Dunnstral/Radical Rat right now.
The worst vote on me comes from Radical Rat. 707 ^^ looks really sneaky and desperate to appear uninformed by talking about confbias and stuff.
I think town will lose if I'm eliminated today, it's as simple as that for me.
I'd love a Radical Rat vote today, maybe even more than a Dunnstral vote. But I do think Dunnstral is likely scum as well.
Practically we have a problem with today's vote. Flea/Alianna/RR/Dunnstral will all end up voting me, whereas me/Malcolm/Cat/Goldfish will vote the counter - either Dunnstral or RR.
Dunnstral, would you vote for Radical Rat instead of me?
Alianna, will you vote either Dunnstral or RR?
What concerns me here is the last two points.
You said earlier in the post that you think Dunn/RR is the most likely team and now you're asking Dunn if they'll vote RR?
The last point is the second time that you've appealed to me specifically. Makes me think you've got an ulterior motive.I townread Alianna.
Post #1000s Collected: 22
On hiatus from playing.- Alianna
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Alianna She/HerDeath by 1000 Pagetops
- Alianna
She/Her- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Posts: 4208
- Joined: February 23, 2022
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Land of the Freeze
- Alianna
-
Alianna She/HerDeath by 1000 Pagetops
- Alianna
She/Her- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Death by 1000 Pagetops
- Posts: 4208
- Joined: February 23, 2022
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Land of the Freeze
- Dunnstral
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Dunnstral he/himGoodfellas
- Dunnstral
he/him- Goodfellas
- Goodfellas
- Posts: 39786
- Joined: April 2, 2016
- Pronoun: he/him
Mafia are allowed to shoot at the bulletproof player, so at the very least it is in their ballpark whether we are at evens or odds, no matter if Titus gets eliminated or not. I pointed this out earlier when I argued to use the double eliminate.In post 718, Alianna wrote:
I really don't think that's true. There are clear benefits to not voting out the NK target. I cannot for the life of me come up with the words to explain why but this feels like you did that.In post 704, furtiveglance wrote:I also disagree about my defence. It's less 'I wouldn't do that' and more 'No one would do that'.- Radical Rat
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All Trades
- Radical Rat
They/Them- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6455
- Joined: November 22, 2015
- Pronoun: They/Them
- Location: Space Colony ARK
I find the notion that scum would willingly give up a nightkill, be that through eliminating their target or targeting the BP, just for the slight advantage putting us on evens gives them to be absolutely absurd.
If it were actually worth doing, N1 no kill would be the meta in every game that allows it.- Radical Rat
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Radical Rat They/ThemJack of All Trades
- Radical Rat
They/Them- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6455
- Joined: November 22, 2015
- Pronoun: They/Them
- Location: Space Colony ARK
And the way furtive has just hyperfocused on "Well, eliminating Town, that's scummy" to the exclusion of all other circumstances is just... Bad.
It's exactly why I initially sussed him for saying we should just quickhammer whoever leads a Town wagon. And sure, that was a joke that I'd misinterpreted, and yet here is that same philosophy being pushed seriously. - Radical Rat
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- Radical Rat
- Dunnstral
- Alianna
- Alianna
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- GoldfishFromTheMoon
- GoldfishFromTheMoon
- MegAzumarill
- Dunnstral
- furtiveglance
- Flea The Magician
- furtiveglance
- MalcolmTucker
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- Radical Rat
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- Cat.Jpeg
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- Alianna