Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[Radical Rat]

I'm reiterating explanations that I have already made and you willfully ignored to try to convince people they don't exist

[furtiveglance]

I don't think you ever said why you changed your mind on Goldfish previously, but if you did I missed it.

[MegAzumarill]

Vote Count 2.1.2

furtiveglance (2*) Flea the Magician, Radical Rat
Radical Rat (2) Cat.jpeg, furtiveglance
Dunnstrall (1) MalcolmTucker

Not Voting (3) GoldfishFromtheMoon, Dunnstrall, Alianna

With 8 votes it takes 5* to make someone sleep with the fishes.
(expired on 2022-05-21 01:16:31)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I do believe it is possible one scum chose to hide on the Titus wagon. However, my problem is that being on the wagon is not inherently scummy on its own, while furtive has been repeatedly reducing it to that.

Basically, scumreading someone who was on the Titus wagon is fine, but scumreading someone FOR being on the Titus wagon is questionable at best

This I completely agree with.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

On second thought, the fact that your thoughts have been so all-over-the-place today is probably town-indicative.

UNVOTE:

I'll see myself out now.

Why do I do this to myself?

A bit late to the party but these posts scream town at me, scum Alianna would have no reason to do this, and you can see that she KNOWS it looks scummy. This is also really typical Alianna town meta, she's done this before.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

[Alianna]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

I'm thinking this too. Probably going to vote RR.

[Radical Rat]

I mean I'd rather not die just yet, I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

I feel most confident in furtive here, but if everyone else is so sure he's town, I wouldn't mind looking for the second scum. Trouble is, I'm not anywhere near as certain on anyone else.

So I guess readslist wise, and I'll more clearly label it this time...

Strong Townread:
Alianna, Flea

Light Townread:
Goldfish

Indecisive:
Malcolm, Dunnstral

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

Note this isn't to say I scumread either cat or furtive, only to say that if one of them IS scum, that is the most likely partnership.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

[MalcolmTucker]

On second thought, the fact that your thoughts have been so all-over-the-place today is probably town-indicative.

UNVOTE:

I'll see myself out now.

Why do I do this to myself?

A bit late to the party but these posts scream town at me, scum Alianna would have no reason to do this,

and you can see that she KNOWS it looks scummy.

This is also really typical Alianna town meta, she's done this before.

That's what throws me a little bit reading it though. I'm really not keen on the self-awareness, insofar as it feels to me like scum Alianna could potentially be compensating for their lack of certainty on who to push with posts deliberately trying to make them appear more townie. Feel like I really need to see more from Alianna on Dunn here because otherwise their potential vote on Radical Rat feels quite opportunistic to me - it's not a slot they've pushed particularly hard and feels like it could be a concerted push for scum away from Furtive, who scum may have judged to be a more difficult elimination. Interested in any past meta which contradicts this though.

[Radical Rat]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

Suffice to say, I have opinions about why the Inform was chosen, and who might have been BPed, but I don't want to elaborate any further on that until we actually get the information. Otherwise, in the hypothetical scenario that you turn out to be scum, you could tailor your answers to either match or counter my expectations, and then the analysis wouldn't be useful anymore

[Dunnstral]

The inform, bp, and night kill have already all been decided

And you indicated that you think Goldfish is a light townread.

Malcolm's 761 above where he points at me and calls Furtive a more difficult elimination than radical rat while implying it's all to protect me is crazy. Why is my name in that conversation at all?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[furtiveglance]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

I can't think of anything important to the game that you can't say today. Can you give us a clue?

[furtiveglance]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

Suffice to say, I have opinions about why the Inform was chosen, and who might have been BPed, but I don't want to elaborate any further on that until we actually get the information. Otherwise, in the hypothetical scenario that you turn out to be scum, you could tailor your answers to either match or counter my expectations, and then the analysis wouldn't be useful anymore

Ok this is meaningless. Does anyone understand or value this?

[Cat.Jpeg]

I think we should hold conversation about what scum may or should do with each ability and their relative utility until AFTER the ability shows up. Let scum figure out their own strategies

I didn't ever like this post but didn't say anything because I thought it made sense at the time. Scum probably thought of and discussed all the possibilities without town and this post just silenced town from also being aware of possibilities. I was kinda shocked when the inform ability came and then I realised it wasnt actually as op as i though when we started discussing it and all the ways scum could minimise the town help. The scum had clearly already thought of that when they picked it though.

"It's unlikely to hit Mafia D1, therefore I'm Town" sure is one of the defenses ever

This was the first reading of someone that you did, although it still wasnt direct sus, pretty lowhanging fruit that scum could easily jump on to. Im not saying this makes you scum im just saying it doesnt appear townie nor does any of your other reads. The game did get off to a slow start though.

Spoiler:

... Somehow I thought deadline was longer. Guess the no lim folks win then.

To update, I still feel like furtive is being defensive to a weird degree, especially given the relatively light pressure he's been under, and pretty much all of their actual arguments look rather disingenuous.

Beyond that, probably either Cat or Goldfish, but I'm] not sure which.

Fairly confident in saying there's at least one scum in that group, even if furtive does flip green.

You gave no reasoning for why Goldfish and I had one scum in us, I scum read people when they don't explain their thought process because to me thats really where you can try and tell if someones coming from a scum or town perspective. Flea and malcolm had already said things about me immediately prior to this, in response to me looking at furtive associates, but they didnt directly scumread me and it looks like you just saw that and went with it

Spoiler:

Radical Rat, your thoughts on players besides me are just "Cat/Goldfish could be scum, maybe?"

For me it's the other way around, by the way. People's pushes on me seem rather disingenuous, and I've been defensive as a result of people being unnecessarily offensive.

My position is a pretty strange one to be in, and I'm not sure how to go about it. 3 people seem to have it locked into their heads that I'm scum, and everything I say seems to just confirm that for them. I'm trying to give reads and play the game normally, but If I'm constantly having to defend senseless pushes on me, I'll be a bit busy with that.

Oh no, that wasn't a full readslist or anything, just my current scumpool.

Actual readslist would look something like this:

Flea, Dunnstral
Malcolm, Titus
Alianna
Cat, Goldfish, furtive

Once again no explination, at all. Well you had given some for furtive earlier but nothing for anyone else. this readlist felt very purposefully ambiguous. Also noting the mild townread on malcolm, this was when i first considered you might be paired. Maybe you could retrospectively explain some of these?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Titus

I think this needs to happen though. Both the Alianna and Dunnstral pushes were based on things that are just objectively not true, and I'm not buying the "I'm the only competent player in the game" act, despite sharing her frustration with the no lim D1.

In post 355 you say that you are confident enough furtive is scum to townread titus inversely. Then when you come back it feels like you realise that the nk might be elimmed and you dont want to look scummy for being so against it so you say that the Alianna then Dunnstral push was bad (earlier post) then wait a bit and vote.

We should stop and think this through.

As I mentioned just before the end of D1, scum would have Not wanted Titus to be eliminated. While this doesn't 100% clear her wagon, it's probably safe to assume that at least one scum would have been trying to redirect, and Titus's main counter wagon was Alianna, which saw moderate success, albeit not enough. From this, it's a pretty safe bet that Alianna is Town, and since we know she's been a contentious slot, it's more likely that scum have her lined up for elimination than nightkill.

VOTE: Alianna

Also feels like you're trying to pocket alianna while also looking 'too bold' to be scum

Spoiler:

But yes, you are correct in that it implies at least one scum in you/Malcom.

We all know you are more sus of furtive than malcolm and saying this means you can seperate yourself from malcolm without ever having to vote for them. Im not 100% that if you are scum then this is the pair but it makes the most sense to me

[Cat.Jpeg]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

Suffice to say, I have opinions about why the Inform was chosen, and who might have been BPed, but I don't want to elaborate any further on that until we actually get the information. Otherwise, in the hypothetical scenario that you turn out to be scum, you could tailor your answers to either match or counter my expectations, and then the analysis wouldn't be useful anymore

Ok this is meaningless. Does anyone understand or value this?

I think i might get what they are hinting at but they should have just said the whole thing or never brought it up. Maybe they want to use this so that people keep them alive until tomorrow so we hear what they think.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Malcolm isn't really on the table right now. Is there a reason why you're not engaging with the me/RR wagons?

A lot of your play has been self-defence, like why you voted Titus. It doesn't look good or towny.

[Alianna]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why would you do that instead of voting for furtive? Do you not scumread them anymore?

[Alianna]

Not to say that I think you should vote furtive, but if you still scumread them both, it doesn't make sense that you would vote on a wagon with no chance of going through.

[Alianna]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

Suffice to say, I have opinions about why the Inform was chosen, and who might have been BPed, but I don't want to elaborate any further on that until we actually get the information. Otherwise, in the hypothetical scenario that you turn out to be scum, you could tailor your answers to either match or counter my expectations, and then the analysis wouldn't be useful anymore

Ok this is meaningless. Does anyone understand or value this?

What I think RR is saying is that they have expectations for who a hypothetical scum!Goldie would or would not claim to be informed of, but if they shared those thoughts now, she would be able to take that into consideration. I think it's a valid viewpoint if RR is town, but as Cat said, they could be scum using this to try to get us to keep them alive.

[furtiveglance]

But Radical Rat recently clarified that they townread Goldfish, remember?

[Alianna]

They did also clarify that it was a light townread.