Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[furtiveglance]

Yeah, we should eliminate Dunnstral. They'll vote for me, everyone else take sides.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Just generally like the wagon building up and going through right at the beginning of the day before we've had much discussion and people haven't contributed yet. But I guess that's just what happens when its later in the game with less players alive so it doesn't take as many votes to get something through.

Ok, makes sense. I don’t think we should rush to hammer this, we should ideally get a decent idea of who we’re eliminating before we finalize our track target.

+1

[Alianna]

If we have to eliminate the track target, so be it, but I’d rather avoid that if at all possible.

[Alianna]

Yeah, we should eliminate Dunnstral. They'll vote for me, everyone else take sides.

Who do you think is their partner?

[Dunnstral]

The track target would not be confirmed innocent.

They also send a player to kill and which one of them perform the kill on the NEXT night phase. This cannot be changed.

Even if we eliminate mafia today, the mafia we eliminated can still be the person who performs the kill during the night phase. The track has to hit the correct member of the mafia.

[Dunnstral]

¤ If the player planning to perform the night kill dies, their partner WILL do it instead.

Nevermind, just read this. Yeah, if we eliminate mafia today we get a lot of info

And if we don't, we lose

I'm fine with cat being cleared or condemned following todays elimination

[furtiveglance]

Yeah, we should eliminate Dunnstral. They'll vote for me, everyone else take sides.

Who do you think is their partner?

You or cat, I'm assuming Goldfish is legit.

[Alianna]

Yeah, we should eliminate Dunnstral. They'll vote for me, everyone else take sides.

Who do you think is their partner?

You or cat, I'm assuming Goldfish is legit.

Well now I think they might just be clear here.
I know they aren’t paired with me or Malcolm.
You or Cat seem like unlikely partners, Cat I explained and you would have to be doing quite a bus, plus I’m already planning to elim you so I’d have a chance to reconsider.
The only possibility that might worry me is Goldfish. I don’t know that hypothetical scum!her could get away with claiming the inno on partner!Dunn, so she’d probably tell the truth in that scenario. Actually, now that I think about it, it would be more optimal to just claim inno on yourself in that situation.

[Alianna]

@Goldie and anyone else who hasn’t voiced an answer to this yet

Who do you think is the scumteam?

[Cat.Jpeg]

@Goldie and anyone else who hasn’t voiced an answer to this yet

Who do you think is the scumteam?

We should decide who we are eliming before we decide who to track.
I townread you and furtive. I'm sus of dunnstral as an individual but don't see who their partner could be. That leaves Goldfish and Malcolm as absurd as that might sound. I think I want to eliminate goldfish because she's scum and in the case she isnt scum she's probably the NK so its not an instant loss. I know she would not shy away from trying to get herself informed and pulling something like this as scum.

I feel as though they planned to get Goldfish informed and pocket Furtive and have goldfish say that Malcolm is the Bulletproof. I think they made someone else, a real townie, the actual bulletproof though just in case goldfish wasnt informed. This is a bit of a conspiracy theory and I'll read some stuff before I commit to this.

VOTE: Malcolm

[Cat.Jpeg]

Who do the players voting for Goldfish think will die during the night?

I think Flea, unless they are scum.

Hm, interesting.

[Cat.Jpeg]

Goldfish could also be paired with Dunnstal, they hardly mention each other in their isos and they both have townleans on each other. Also Goldfish has townleaned/townread everyone alive right now

[MalcolmTucker]

Hmm, the fact I've been cleared does make me wonder here if scum are trying to potentially misdirect me, or if they were at the start of the last turn when they picked me to have my alignment given. Given my main suspect has been Dunn (and still is based on play alone), it does make me wonder if Furtive is perhaps mafia and wanted to clear me since I'd largely TR'd them so far.

On the last vote, their suspicion of Radical Rat was at least consistent and so it wasn't a purely opportunistic vote - but I don't think there was anyone on the wagon who was necessarily all that opportunistic, but that doesn't rule out scum of course - quite possible for a scum player to have made a concerted push on Radical Rat early on in the hope it would go through at some point. But I don't think Furtive's continual suspicion there makes them look any better, is what I'm saying. Cat, Alianna and Goldfish all gave solid reasons for voting Radical Rat out even though I personally got townie vibes for them.

Personally I'd want us to track either Alianna or Cat here. Alianna's had fleeting suspicion throughout the game but it faded away a bit on D2. My own clear gives me some doubt but I still think Alianna/Dunn is a very possible team. Alianna had some suspicion on Dunn in D2 and then just gradually backed away from it. On Cat, I think their play was a lot more solid and felt quite townie on D2, but very much in a way that would make me worry it's mafia playing a clever game here.

[MalcolmTucker]

@Goldie and anyone else who hasn’t voiced an answer to this yet

Who do you think is the scumteam?

We should decide who we are eliming before we decide who to track.
I townread you and furtive. I'm sus of dunnstral as an individual but don't see who their partner could be. That leaves Goldfish and Malcolm as absurd as that might sound. I think I want to eliminate goldfish because she's scum and in the case she isnt scum she's probably the NK so its not an instant loss. I know she would not shy away from trying to get herself informed and pulling something like this as scum.

I feel as though they planned to get Goldfish informed and pocket Furtive and have goldfish say that Malcolm is the Bulletproof. I think they made someone else, a real townie, the actual bulletproof though just in case goldfish wasnt informed. This is a bit of a conspiracy theory and I'll read some stuff before I commit to this.

VOTE: Malcolm

I don't think voting to track me here makes all that much sense personally. I know I'm town and I've been given the clear in this case. Granted we can't fully trust Goldfish yet but I'm not sure mafia play this too riskily by clearing a different townie from the one they actually meant to clear, if that makes sense. Scum are in a good position with it being 4 vs 2 and I imagine they'd be much more keen on just trying to manipulate and sway the thread this turn to achieve their desired results.

[MalcolmTucker]

Goldfish could also be paired with Dunnstal, they hardly mention each other in their isos and they both have townleans on each other. Also Goldfish has townleaned/townread everyone alive right now

On this, what do you think of Dunn's attempt to get themselves informed at the start of D2 when Goldfish was getting votes for this? On the one hand it could be seen as a distancing attempt I suppose with scum not wanting to be too eager to inform scum. But my issue here is that nobody was being perceived as particularly scummy for wanting to inform Goldfish - they were being read as town (for legit reasons I believe), and it would've been fairly easy for Dunn to just force that through to ensure scum Goldfish was informed. I'm not sure that's something where scum would have particularly hesitated if they had the chance of being informed to be honest, given the obvious advantages of immediately being able to avoid a townie discovering who they are.

[MalcolmTucker]

Is Dunn/Furtive a possible team here? I can't shake the idea of Dunn as scum, but Furtive being their partner would make sense with me being the townie chosen as the informed if Goldfish is town too - Dunn/Alianna is my most likely team based on gameplay alone, but Furtive being in there and choosing me as a misdirect hoping I'd be onside would figure a bit more. If we can hit scum in either of them then Alianna/Cat as our track as backup strikes me as a reasonable approach.

[MalcolmTucker]

Flea's elimination could also make sense from the POV of a Dunn/Furtive team here for me. Flea was a bit suspect of Dunn toward the end of D1. Flea clashed with Furtive on D2 but unless I've missed something reading back I don't think Furtive exactly pushed too strongly on the slot, which obviously wouldn't be advisable with Flea being the night elimination. Although granted Flea's activity was sporadic so it would have probably been a fairly difficult slot for mafia to push consistently anyway.

[Dunnstral]

Flea was a bit suspect of Dunn toward the end of D1.

No, they weren't.

[Dunnstral]

You realize that I literally voted Titus out for making things up?

Like, not a difference in opinion. Literally lying to try to justify pushing me.

And now you're doing the same thing.

You do realize that I am willing to vote you for this. Regardless of what result goldfish has here

And if we lose because two townies made things up to try to eliminate me. And I understandably voted them both out (or died trying)
And, again, not a difference in opinion, but actually just objectively making things up where what they are saying can be proven 100% false.
Then... it's not my fault we lost, I'm not going to be blaming myself, and I will very much be saying "I told you so" after. Or maybe I'll just disappear because I don't really care to argue after the game.

If you still want to go down this route, then by all means. Anyone who wants to do their own homework will notice that Flea does not display any suspicion on me.

----

So for the rest of your post:

No, Flea dying does not point to me.
No, it doesn't make sense for me to be scum with Furtive. I tried to get them eliminated on day 1... and on day. And It was reasonably close both times. It actually could have happened. There isn't really an incentive for a team of me and Furtive to vote for each other here on day 3. And I do plan on voting Furtive, as I am pretty sure they are mafia. I think Cat is probably the most likely partner and would like the tracker to figure that out.

Yes, it does not make sense to track you. Cat might be worried about losing instantly if they are partnered with Furtive, so they could be playing up suspicions on Goldfish/yourself and seeing if anybody bites.

As for the team of Me and Alianna, it doesn't make sense for us to clear you when you were scumreading both of us at the end of day 1. You also called us possible partners. When I voted you on day 2, Alianna brushed it off and said it had no chance of happening.

[MalcolmTucker]

Spoiler: We don't need another hero!

As the sun set 8 people went to their houses. In the morning.... 8 still remained.

The Day 2 Ability Phase shall be: Inform
The mafia has chosen a player, vote a player you want to learn the alignment of the player chosen by the mafia!


Votecount 2.0.0

Day 2: Taste- So many tasty things to eat

Not Voting: Radical Rat, MalcolmTucker, furtiveglance, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Dunnstral, Cat.Jpeg, Alianna, Flea The Magician

With 8 alive it takes 5 to make a decision.
Deadline:(expired on 2022-05-17 00:07:08)

Beautiful. Sorry Titus <3 so this shot is either random or someone who played with Titus before knows she powers up as the game goes on.
Dunn isn't the type to make that shot I don't think, I think Rat might but might suggest it more than push it.
Doesn't eliminate either of them and both are under close watch today.

Let it be said that I was online when the daystart was posted

Let it be said that I also was online when the day start was posted. Is that relevant though?

LAMIST much?

Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there. I think Goldfish is the most town for me.

I would like to inform Goldfish.

VOTE: Goldfish

Hoping you elaborate on this.

Spoiler: We don't need to know the way home

Wagon on me was interesting and draws parallels with 2092 but I don’t want to comment too much until I’ve thought more.

Again, hoping you elaborate here.

I've thought about this inform ability a bit more. It will most likely give us a confirmed town, because mafia wouldn't want to out themselves. I think based on yesterday the player we will be informed of is probably Flea/Malcolm, for being consensus townreads.

I think we've actually forced mafias hand here which amuses me. Fun thing is finding out who they've cleared.
For me Goldfish is not the one to inform here, but, Mafia also cannot lie without outing themselves unless they "clear" themselves. So optimal scumplay here is vote their NK or vote themselves.

Spoiler: All we want is life beyond

I find it humorous that because Titus was NK'd it's almost like we didn't eliminate twice. They would hate that. Im going to look at the game again with the knowledge 2 people knew Titus was the nightkill. The final vote count has me, furtive, malcolm, and alianna not voting titus but i dont think thats too useful because i think the mafia (at least one of them) ended up voting titus in the end to avoid getting voted themselves (rr or dunnstral). Also once again I townlean alianna for how absurd it was for them to unvote on Titus. Early in the game though might yeild more information.

Titus is screaming at me from the dead thread. I can promise you that. 3 eliminations become one and we're on evens which is what I was trying to avoid.

You need to be aware of how you're perceived and why. That's the first step to being involved in the town. If you just push your own agenda and ignore us all the time, it's not easy townread you. You didn't really engage with my idea of giving Goldfish the info, what do you think about that? I get that you prefer yourself, but do think Goldfish is scum? Or just a likely nightkill target? What's the issue here.

Mhmm. Why pick on Dunn and not goldfish for this?

Spoiler: The thunderdome.

We should stop and think this through.

As I mentioned just before the end of D1, scum would have Not wanted Titus to be eliminated. While this doesn't 100% clear her wagon, it's probably safe to assume that at least one scum would have been trying to redirect, and Titus's main counter wagon was Alianna, which saw moderate success, albeit not enough. From this, it's a pretty safe bet that Alianna is Town, and since we know she's been a contentious slot, it's more likely that scum have her lined up for elimination than nightkill.

VOTE: Alianna

Actually a good shout. Hoping we get more solid stances from Alianna though and I'm not entirely sold without a reread there.

We should stop and think this through.

As I mentioned just before the end of D1, scum would have Not wanted Titus to be eliminated. While this doesn't 100% clear her wagon, it's probably safe to assume that at least one scum would have been trying to redirect, and Titus's main counter wagon was Alianna, which saw moderate success, albeit not enough. From this, it's a pretty safe bet that Alianna is Town, and since we know she's been a contentious slot, it's more likely that scum have her lined up for elimination than nightkill.

VOTE: Alianna

This logic is bizarre and cyclical because it assumes town!Alianna initially. The way I see it, Alianna was the counter wagon to confirmed town. That's the only thing I care about. Alianna does not get towncred for being the counter wagon to the nightkill, because that implies that me/Malcolm are scum. Which is untrue/I would be shocked if Malcolm was mafia. So Alianna is no more town than yesterday for me.

Your logic is amazing.

Rat gains cred, Dunn gains sus, cat/malc/furtive incriminating each other? huh.

Flea thought you were more suspect at this point in the game. They said it was based on vibes later. Not incredulous to me you could have been worried about this as scum if Flea started pushing you harder further down the line.

In normal circumstances I'd be as confident as is possible of team with you and Alianna at this point to be honest, but the fact I've been informed makes me question that - if scum want me to be known as town, they presumably want to misdirect me. From a meta POV whenever I've been town near or at the end of a game I've typically ended up making the wrong choice for who was town/scum, so if it's a player who knows that about me it's feasible they'd have wanted me to lead town in the wrong direction. I've played a game with Furtive where this exact thing happened which makes me warier of them too.

[Dunnstral]

Day 2 starts at post 506

The post you quote above is during day 2. Flea was chosen as the night kill before they made that post.

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't think you being on the Titus wagon D1 exonerates you either, it's again quite feasible to me that one scum potentially jumped on there for some possible town-cred once it became likely, because they knew the night-kill wouldn't go through.

Alianna jumping off this is notable, but they were keen on voting out Titus until pretty near the end of the turn, so despite disliking their U-turn I'm uncertain that two scum would have pushed here harder. Furtive was initially keen on Titus but then very much swerved away from that line of thinking.

[Dunnstral]

They quote day 2 starting in that post

[MalcolmTucker]

Day 2 starts at post 506

The post you quote above is during day 2. Flea was chosen as the night kill before they made that post.

Ah, you're correct, my apologies, getting slightly mixed up there. Still possible you could have made the kill or been in the team who ordered it obviously, but you get more town points given I confused the context there.

[MalcolmTucker]

I suppose at this point in the game if mafia are under pressure Furtive could look to sacrifice Dunn. Or am I overthinking it there? Given gameplay/me being confirmed as town I really struggle to see a Dunn/Alianna team despite having suspected both of them individually.