Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[Cat.Jpeg]

Intent to hammer

, I don't mind being conf town.

[MalcolmTucker]

Also remember in your above scenario Dunn needs to be scum of course. Even if Cat is actually mafia, does the track not end up being useless if we don't hit scum during the vote?

Can you see Alianna/Cat?

I can't at the moment, their interactions look like scum!Cat/town!Alianna to me. They don't look paired at all, nor do I scumread either of them strongly enough to vote them over Dunnstral.

I'd need to look back to come to a verdict on Cat/Alianna. Like Dunn, my wariness there comes from the idea they ploughed right in immediately and voted for Cat to be tracked. But again, as outlined above, suppose for mafia they could bus their own partner and it brings down the elim pool by one.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hmm, the fact I've been cleared does make me wonder here if scum are trying to potentially misdirect me, or if they were at the start of the last turn when they picked me to have my alignment given. Given my main suspect has been Dunn (and still is based on play alone), it does make me wonder if Furtive is perhaps mafia and wanted to clear me since I'd largely TR'd them so far.

On the last vote, their suspicion of Radical Rat was at least consistent and so it wasn't a purely opportunistic vote - but I don't think there was anyone on the wagon who was necessarily all that opportunistic, but that doesn't rule out scum of course - quite possible for a scum player to have made a concerted push on Radical Rat early on in the hope it would go through at some point. But I don't think Furtive's continual suspicion there makes them look any better, is what I'm saying. Cat, Alianna and Goldfish all gave solid reasons for voting Radical Rat out even though I personally got townie vibes for them.

Personally I'd want us to track either Alianna or Cat here. Alianna's had fleeting suspicion throughout the game but it faded away a bit on D2. My own clear gives me some doubt but I still think Alianna/Dunn is a very possible team. Alianna had some suspicion on Dunn in D2 and then just gradually backed away from it. On Cat, I think their play was a lot more solid and felt quite townie on D2, but very much in a way that would make me worry it's mafia playing a clever game here.

Mafia had to pick someone who wasn't going to be eliminated (otherwise they reduce their possible miselimination options), and you've been widely townread (apart from by Cat). It's probably as simple as that.

As for you townreading me, 1) appreciate it and 2) there must be reasons that you townread me.

I've TR'd you so far because even when you've been wrong I feel like you've been trying to drive the game forward or come up with solves when others have perhaps been more content to sit back. My issue now is - you were wrong in a way that's been beneficial to scum, and I now need to work out if that was genuine townie being wrong or scum successfully managing to sway our opinions.

[MalcolmTucker]

Intent to hammer

, I don't mind being conf town.

Only issue is if we get the scum wrong here then by the time you're hypothetically confirmed town the game is over. But I've agreed until now you'd be a solid track and so wouldn't have any objections to this going through.

[furtiveglance]

Hmm, the fact I've been cleared does make me wonder here if scum are trying to potentially misdirect me, or if they were at the start of the last turn when they picked me to have my alignment given. Given my main suspect has been Dunn (and still is based on play alone), it does make me wonder if Furtive is perhaps mafia and wanted to clear me since I'd largely TR'd them so far.

On the last vote, their suspicion of Radical Rat was at least consistent and so it wasn't a purely opportunistic vote - but I don't think there was anyone on the wagon who was necessarily all that opportunistic, but that doesn't rule out scum of course - quite possible for a scum player to have made a concerted push on Radical Rat early on in the hope it would go through at some point. But I don't think Furtive's continual suspicion there makes them look any better, is what I'm saying. Cat, Alianna and Goldfish all gave solid reasons for voting Radical Rat out even though I personally got townie vibes for them.

Personally I'd want us to track either Alianna or Cat here. Alianna's had fleeting suspicion throughout the game but it faded away a bit on D2. My own clear gives me some doubt but I still think Alianna/Dunn is a very possible team. Alianna had some suspicion on Dunn in D2 and then just gradually backed away from it. On Cat, I think their play was a lot more solid and felt quite townie on D2, but very much in a way that would make me worry it's mafia playing a clever game here.

Mafia had to pick someone who wasn't going to be eliminated (otherwise they reduce their possible miselimination options), and you've been widely townread (apart from by Cat). It's probably as simple as that.

As for you townreading me, 1) appreciate it and 2) there must be reasons that you townread me.

I've TR'd you so far because even when you've been wrong I feel like you've been trying to drive the game forward or come up with solves when others have perhaps been more content to sit back. My issue now is - you were wrong in a way that's been beneficial to scum, and I now need to work out if that was genuine townie being wrong or scum successfully managing to sway our opinions.

The way I see it, I probably haven't been that wrong (having scumread Dunnstral all game) and got unlucky with Radical Rat.

[Cat.Jpeg]

right now to win mafia has to avoid elimming either of themselves or their NK. Although if we elim the NK track won't give an 100% clear. It sucks we have even people. We need to avoid hasty voting and look at the game with fresh eyes. I guess its not that bad we have even people because if one town does vote another scum can't instantly hammer by themselves. We will need all town on a wagon to vote out a mafia unless one of them sacrifices the other, which i feel scum would be hesitant to do unless town thought the pair was unlikely and it was looking inevitable.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hmm, the fact I've been cleared does make me wonder here if scum are trying to potentially misdirect me, or if they were at the start of the last turn when they picked me to have my alignment given. Given my main suspect has been Dunn (and still is based on play alone), it does make me wonder if Furtive is perhaps mafia and wanted to clear me since I'd largely TR'd them so far.

On the last vote, their suspicion of Radical Rat was at least consistent and so it wasn't a purely opportunistic vote - but I don't think there was anyone on the wagon who was necessarily all that opportunistic, but that doesn't rule out scum of course - quite possible for a scum player to have made a concerted push on Radical Rat early on in the hope it would go through at some point. But I don't think Furtive's continual suspicion there makes them look any better, is what I'm saying. Cat, Alianna and Goldfish all gave solid reasons for voting Radical Rat out even though I personally got townie vibes for them.

Personally I'd want us to track either Alianna or Cat here. Alianna's had fleeting suspicion throughout the game but it faded away a bit on D2. My own clear gives me some doubt but I still think Alianna/Dunn is a very possible team. Alianna had some suspicion on Dunn in D2 and then just gradually backed away from it. On Cat, I think their play was a lot more solid and felt quite townie on D2, but very much in a way that would make me worry it's mafia playing a clever game here.

Mafia had to pick someone who wasn't going to be eliminated (otherwise they reduce their possible miselimination options), and you've been widely townread (apart from by Cat). It's probably as simple as that.

As for you townreading me, 1) appreciate it and 2) there must be reasons that you townread me.

I've TR'd you so far because even when you've been wrong I feel like you've been trying to drive the game forward or come up with solves when others have perhaps been more content to sit back. My issue now is - you were wrong in a way that's been beneficial to scum, and I now need to work out if that was genuine townie being wrong or scum successfully managing to sway our opinions.

The way I see it, I probably haven't been that wrong (having scumread Dunnstral all game) and got unlucky with Radical Rat.

Quite possibly, just understandably wary you've potentially been trying to pocket me as scum, and confirming me as town could have easily been a way for you to try and take advantage of that.

[furtiveglance]

Be as wary as you see fit, I explained why I townread you early.

[MalcolmTucker]

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

[furtiveglance]

Like I said, I don't mind who gets tracked. If people are then planning to eliminate me, it's pointless anyway.

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, if nobody has any objections, and Cat doesn't want to strike - I'll also put in an intent to hammer here. Although Cat can have first choice on that if they so wish.

[Alianna]

No objections on my part.

[Alianna]

@Goldie and anyone else who hasn’t voiced an answer to this yet

Who do you think is the scumteam?

Also, @Goldie, why do you townread Cat?

[Cat.Jpeg]

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

I wanted Goldfish to say something before I did, I also needed to sleep.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

I wanted Goldfish to say something before I didl

U wanted to see my response to your theory about me and malcom didn't you. I honestly dk what too say except that I can see why you thought of it because scum me would do that but that's not what's happening now. I kinda wonder tho if you are scum trying to throw us off the scent with a wacky theory.

Legitimately right now I don't have any idea who the scum is. As Cat said I've townread or leaned every player who is currently alive so my reads are definitely wrong this game.

[MalcolmTucker]

Alright, seems we have a consensus now. No point in holding things up.

VOTE: Cat.jpeg

[Dunnstral]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

Intent to hammer Radical Rat.

Not that it means anything with 4 hours till deadline.
This is going through no matter what I do.

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

I wanted Goldfish to say something before I didl

U wanted to see my response to your theory about me and malcom didn't you. I honestly dk what too say except that I can see why you thought of it because scum me would do that but that's not what's happening now. I kinda wonder tho if you are scum trying to throw us off the scent with a wacky theory.

Legitimately right now I don't have any idea who the scum is. As Cat said I've townread or leaned every player who is currently alive so my reads are definitely wrong this game.

I don't like this

[MegAzumarill]

Final Vote Count Day 3 Ability

Cat.jpeg (4) Alianna, Dunnstral, GoldfishFromTheMoon, MalcolmTucker

Not Voting (2) furtiveglance, Cat.Jpeg,

With 6 alive it takes 4 to make a decision.
Deadline:(expired on 2022-05-28 16:47:57)

Cat.jpeg will be tracked tonight. The elimination phase will begin.

---

Vote Count 3.1.0


Not Voting (6) furtiveglance, Cat.Jpeg, Alianna, Dunnstral, GoldfishFromTheMoon, MalcolmTucker

With 6 alive it takes 4 to send someone away.
Deadline:(expired on 2022-05-30 07:43:44)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

Intent to hammer Radical Rat.

Not that it means anything with 4 hours till deadline.
This is going through no matter what I do.

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

I wanted Goldfish to say something before I didl

U wanted to see my response to your theory about me and malcom didn't you. I honestly dk what too say except that I can see why you thought of it because scum me would do that but that's not what's happening now. I kinda wonder tho if you are scum trying to throw us off the scent with a wacky theory.

Legitimately right now I don't have any idea who the scum is. As Cat said I've townread or leaned every player who is currently alive so my reads are definitely wrong this game.

I don't like this

What specifically do you find suspicious about this? You seem to be picking and choosing individual posts, and then putting them all next to each other to make it look like a progression when in reality there were many other things I, and other people said which you are ignoring here, which give these posts context that means they make sense.

[Dunnstral]

You say there is 1 scum in RR/Furtive

RR flipped town and you came into today saying you have no idea who it could be.

So did you not believe what you said earlier? What am I ignoring that gives context that made you think furtive and radical rat were not opposite alignments?

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[furtiveglance]

I know I was wrong before. But this time, I think I'm right. I mean I thought I was right last time as well. But yeah. I'm town, and if Dunnstral's town we lose anyway because they vote me, so I'm voting Dunnstral and recommend others to as well

[Alianna]

furtive/Dunn TvT is only possible if Goldie is scum, which I don't think is likely.
I'm probably voting furtive here but I would like to hear answers from Goldie to the questions posed in 858 and 912.

[Dunnstral]

Upon further reflection mafia had a choice between track, watch, and imprison

I'd argue that tracker was a worse choice for the mafia than watcher would have been, and the only reason not to pick watcher is if the mafia is worried that town will guess correctly

So to me that makes it more likely that goldfish was selected as the kill. If goldfish were mafia their options for the kill are realistically alianna or cat, and I'm not sure why they would pick track instead of watch.

Because if we eliminate correctly today, the track gives us a lot of information, but the watcher only has a chance to give information