Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

@Penguin what is your fire read?

[PenguinPower]

Are those people town now to you?

i have almost zero strong reads day 1

[PenguinPower]

@Penguin what is your fire read?

would wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

So why did you vote hutmeil instead?

[PenguinPower]

idk - saw his post at the top of the page and didn't really like how all his scum reads are due to lurking

[Datisi]

Datisi, you're good with this?

what is the *this*? hutmeil wagon?

i currently prefer voting mala because i have more concrete reasons to think she's scum than i do for hutmeil, but i don't mind that wagon at all either

to borrow from a good friend of mine, let there be competing wagons

[Datisi]

Spoiler:

i just noticed that the pink text cuts off and there's more of it at the bottom what does it say

[Datisi]

viewtopic.php?p=13424966#p13424966

this is the link in the meme, for those too lazy to find it themselves

[Datisi]

what is the *this*? hutmeil wagon?

if you mean any grand analysis of the specific votes, then

george's vote is slightly townie i think, i might be tunneled on that one tell, but i feel like scum!george is more likely to either ~wagon someone that's currently a wagon~ (easy and lets him blend it) or ~act contrarian on purpose to try to get the towncred~ (i know this is a tactic that scum!george uses sometimes). hutmeil vote accomplishes neither of those, because it's not really a consensus vote / current wagon, but also it's not a hugely hot take that he gets townpoints for originality and bravado

fire's vote is very uninspiring. it follows some sorta trajectory he laid out in thread, sure, but it makes it seem like he didn't care much about his gamma ready and idk i am not vibing with it. (also i just ctrl+f'ed "mala" in his iso and there's a suspect lack of mentioning her despite her being one of the major wagons and :thonk:)

penguin's vote is just penguin being penguin. if you want me to make up stuff about it, i could, but it wouldn't be sincere.

[implosion]

Hello, I am here to post a smattering of thoughts. Here is thought one.

I don't like Mala's Gamma/Andante thing. It seems like a very high-utility read to fake as scum (particularly if Gamma/Andante are both town, and I am inclined that way right now), for a lot of reasons: it makes it look like a read with a lot of thought put into it, it gives an easy next-person-to-push if one of them flips town, it lets her give stances without fully alienating anyone because both Gamma/Andante could conceivably agree the other is scum. Also, this whole description reads somewhat manufactured to me:

I need to sort out one of Gamma and Andante. I have disliked both of their posting for different reasons:
Gamma because I feel majority of the posts feels empty, no passion, but then there's time where the passion is felt like they are interacting with Andante. I potenitally could see these interactions as S/T, but I need to figure out who is who tho.
As for Andante I was leaning more for town!andnate, but then 870 is giving me pause because I know Scum!Andante hates pressure. I dont think I ever heard town!andante make such a comment.

So now I'm thinking that it could be gamma as town/andante as scum because I don't think is a t/t, but i also don't think this is a s/s interaction.

It feels like this is trying to look committal without being committal, partially because that's the nature of giving a "this is S/T but idk which is which" read, and partially because she's talking explicitly about having reasons to both townread and scumread both players, independently of the read that their interaction isn't t/t or s/s. It's just kind of like, if I had this many conflicting opinions about different parts of two players' play, I would not feel confident declaring that exactly one of them is likely scum.

[Datisi]

whether that (my last post) carries on into "so hutmeil is more likely town based on The Wagons", i don't know

the composition of the wagon on him is definitely worse than on mala. i don't think george's or fire's votes are a possible bus. penguin's could be. so. maybe statistically slightly +town, considering i don't know the alignments of the first two.

[implosion]

Andante flipping me into a townlean I wanted to say is the kind of thing scum maybe doesn't think of doing but I guess is conceivably a sensible thing for scum to do just because she wasn't getting traction. So I will Continue to be Uncertain about her.

@implo, what's the current state of your read on fireisredsir?

Gosh that's a great question.

I think like you I find their posting underwhelming, I'm just not as convinced as you are that they've posted stuff that's town indicative. I think the slot has good scum equity but I don't have high confidence in it or anything .

what's telling to me so far is that we have yet to have one serious wagon though i guess you could maybe kinda sorta call mala's wagon one.

What exactly is this telling of?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, you're good with this?

what is the *this*? hutmeil wagon?

i currently prefer voting mala because i have more concrete reasons to think she's scum than i do for hutmeil, but i don't mind that wagon at all either

to borrow from a good friend of mine, let there be competing wagons

The problem is one of the wagons needs to be worthwhile.

[implosion]

I do think the hutmeil wagon has bad composition but I'm also not really a proponent of early wagonomics. I think there is some stuff to analyze here that's relevant though. I kind of agree with VP that it's an "easy" wagon but I also do think Mala is an easy wagon in a somewhat different way despite being on it (essentially the difference between a lurker wagon being easy and a newbie lurker wagon being easy).

I think Penguin's trajectory is especially weird here - the main thing he says is motivating his behavior is that he likes wagons but he hasn't commented on the Mala wagon at all except to sort of half-throw-shade on it by saying it's "maybe kinda sorta" a serious wagon. Which is just a weird thing to do when his main complaint is that there are no wagons? Like I don't understand what he can not-like about the Mala wagon to make him want to describe it that way when his current wagon consists of GeorgeBailey whomst has posted content exactly once, fire who he just said he'd wagon (which isn't really saying much I know) and whose vote was partially justified by "it'd be good to have a wagon here", and himself, who sounds willing to wagon around eleven different players. It doesn't seem like the hut wagon is an especially "serious" wagon to me by any standard.

Penguin, why did you never join the Mala wagon? Why are you calling it maybe-kinda-sorta real when it's at 4 votes? Do you think the hut wagon is better than it? What's your opinion on the Mala wagon, either earlier or now?

[catboi]

Replacing Vulture.

[VP Baltar]

Fwiw, I will join the mala wagon if that's what implo and datisi are doing, since they are probably my strongest townreads at this point. Mala isn't exactly following through on the burst of activity. I also think I'm getting kind of bored with the stagnation today a little bit.

[Datisi]

i was hoping mala would post a little bit more before i could do more analysis on the similarities and/or differences between this game and coalition. though i don't really plan on unvoting, unless someone else starts really scumming it up.

i'd like to hear ari's thoughts on her mala and fire reads, and how they compare.

[Aristeia]

Why is it less inspired than George's? I feel like trying to get a wagon going is a pretty reasonable aim.

well I have a different baseline for fire and george.

I actually have 0 experience playing with george so I have basically no idea how he plays but I'd trust Dats to give an accurate read there.

[Aristeia]

with mala i think it is slightly different bc here people aren't really saying "mala is lurking, she lurks as scum, therefore she's scum", they're more saying "mala is lurking, lurking is scummy, therefore she's scum". the first point is one that she would take issue with, the second one much less so. then again idk if she's even read enough to know which is going on here

with mala i think it is slightly different bc here people aren't really saying "mala is lurking, she lurks as scum, therefore she's scum", they're more saying "mala is lurking, lurking is scummy, therefore she's scum". the first point is one that she would take issue with, the second one much less so. then again idk if she's even read enough to know which is going on here

I don't think either of these are what they're saying at all? They're saying "mala is lurking, in a towngame she reacted much differently to being pushed for lurking, therefore she's scum"

ik what ari is saying. im talking about the distinction between the "being pushed for lurking" in the two games, so the earlier reasons for mala suspicions, not the current ones. in the linked game people were specifically making the argument that she had lurked it out a lot in recent scumgames, and that specifically was what she responded to emotionally, the idea that lurking was AI for her based on her meta

like in contrast this townread feels like it has a lot more nuanced thought involved than the vote, which is kind of ??? and I think maybe it's easier for fire to make good looking townreads on town than good looking scumreads on town.

[Aristeia]

So I'm not town because I don't post that much? I understand though, I don't like lurkers too! Speaking of, Malakittens hasn't posted yet has she?

I think the only slot I can meta is Mala. I played with Mala last game. Mala was lurking but she turned out to be Town so Mala!lurker doesn't equate to Mala!scum. But then again, I don't like lurkers. So for me, lurking can be a scum strategy, but given my meta on her, I'll let her go at least for now.

actually these two in combination is p sus as well

For what reason? I can think of a reason but want to know if it's what you're thinking

my reason is that they redirected accusations of lurking onto another slot, Mala, one that they later mentioned they had meta of her lurking as town. bringing her up specifically as the one to redirect on makes it feel to me like they knew that she was likely to continue lurking as town and thus would be an easy push to make

it doesn't really make sense from town bc i don't know why you make the first quote when you already have the knowledge in the second quote

like this feels more like a gotcha trial balloon than like an actual townie thought about "oooh i got him now"

hut's not trying to push mala, he's just saying she's lurking too and she lurks as town, which are two separate thoughts.

one thought is , "hey mala is also not posting what about her!" and the other thought is "mala lurked in the town game I shared with her"

The first thought is about excusing his own behavior and the second thought is eagerness to share the one piece of meta that he

did

have which isn't very useful to

him

as scum if mala is town and he is scum and mala is a leading wagon for

lurking

if anything it redirects attention to him.

If anything this thought imo makes even less sense for scum!hutmeil to share.

[Datisi]

Fwiw, I will join the mala wagon if that's what implo and datisi are doing, since they are probably my strongest townreads at this point. Mala isn't exactly following through on the burst of activity. I also think I'm getting kind of bored with the stagnation today a little bit.

wait, thought you were worried about my pushes being lhf or shallow or what was it?

[catboi]

Save The Dragons replaces Vulture.

[Save The Dragons]

first

hi frenemies

[Datisi]

hi std

are you a scumfuck again

[Save The Dragons]

no but just based on the first few pages i think you are