Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Aristeia]

who would you kill Baltar

[VP Baltar]

who would you kill Baltar

Andante. Thought that was clear.

[VP Baltar]

As far as my confidence level in that shot, I'd say like 60%, which is decent for D1 in my view.

[hutmeil]

Welcome STD!

UNVOTE: Vulture/STD for now

In post 1001, Andante wrote:
In post 998, hutmeil wrote:
Vulture - My controversial take. I'm not sure if I should repeat the reasons for my take but I stand by it. As for their other posts, are they more towny or scummy, I'm not sure with the answer to that but I think their posts are logical and makes sense so other than their early d1 suggestion, I don't think I will add scum points to their slot

I might have missed it, but without quoting full posts (just putting the post numbers are fine) could you repeat why Vulture is your STRONGEST SR?


Basically I SRd Vulture for them suggesting an early Mason reveal because it's more beneficial to scum than town. Others hated my stand and that's why it's controversial.

hot take

that's funny b/c i SR'd you for early PR fishing in the newbie game for the same exact thing................................

Haha yes I remember. So are you saying, I'm making the same mistake as you did? But to be clear, I did not ask/say to role reveal, I was just testing the waters how people will react to asking about roles given it was a newbie game.

Basically I SRd Vulture for them suggesting an early Mason reveal because it's more beneficial to scum than town. Others hated my stand and that's why it's controversial.

i don't think people hate your stance on that. it's a reasonable opinion to have and i kinda townread you at first for having it bc it fit with what I've seen from your previous towngame

what is suspicious to me is that your scumread on vulture seems to be entirely based on that one point. that's like a fine point to rvs scumread someone for, but it feels like you're afraid or unable to produce new and unique content and that's why you're hanging on that one singular point. i don't really see you noticing new things, engaging with the main direction of the game unprompted, or reacting to people's posts that aren't about yourself. i do see that you did these things in your towngame

if you're town, just... respond to things that catch your eye, point out posts that you feel influence your read on people, stuff like that. and if it feels natural and genuine, then maybe ill see that. but for now, i don't

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I guess I'll mention it again. There's too much meta in this game. "Looking back to that old game", "I remember in that other game", "You're not like that before when we played together", etc... I feel I cannot relate to what's being discussed. Sure I can go and read those old games but this game itself which is already 44 pages in length and still at D1, I don't think I have the time to go back and do that (and not for just 1 game!).

I get your point and it makes sense. I guess I should comment more on non-meta stuff (which is not a lot btw), sift through the post to find them.

[Gamma Emerald]

In post 1001, Andante wrote:
In post 998, hutmeil wrote:
Vulture - My controversial take. I'm not sure if I should repeat the reasons for my take but I stand by it. As for their other posts, are they more towny or scummy, I'm not sure with the answer to that but I think their posts are logical and makes sense so other than their early d1 suggestion, I don't think I will add scum points to their slot

I might have missed it, but without quoting full posts (just putting the post numbers are fine) could you repeat why Vulture is your STRONGEST SR?


Basically I SRd Vulture for them suggesting an early Mason reveal because it's more beneficial to scum than town. Others hated my stand and that's why it's controversial.

hot take

that's funny b/c i SR'd you for early PR fishing in the newbie game for the same exact thing................................

I didn't realize mala was taking about a different game here until just now
that makes it kinda worse imo

[implosion]

STD's entrance is reasonably good.

1176 is the first post from fire that maybe townpings me/contextualizes some of their other posts in an interesting way. It seems like fire is pretty frequently reacting in the moment with something quippy like "this is just very weird to me" but giving interesting thought processes behind those things afterward (same thing happened earlier with me about something, idr where). Might be more of a stylistic thing than anything alignment-meaningful. I do think it's nice that they're saying this to Datisi who I think is not the ideal target in this gamestate for scum to want to pressure in principle. Could conceivably make sense as a s/s interaction but etc, etc, etc.

[implosion]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I guess I'll mention it again. There's too much meta in this game. "Looking back to that old game", "I remember in that other game", "You're not like that before when we played together", etc... I feel I cannot relate to what's being discussed. Sure I can go and read those old games but this game itself which is already 44 pages in length and still at D1, I don't think I have the time to go back and do that (and not for just 1 game!).

I get your point and it makes sense. I guess I should comment more on non-meta stuff (which is not a lot btw), sift through the post to find them.

I want to say something like "I understand that the amount of meta is frustrating but I feel there's a good amount of non-meta content to respond to" but thinking about it I guess most of the content in this game has been tinged by meta in some way.

Even content that is based entirely on meta can be read into in spite of not knowing the actual meta. For instance, maybe you can't evaluate whether fireisredsir's argument about Datisi's scum meta is valid, but you could get an opinion on fireisredsir based on the way they make the argument.

What do you think of STD's catchup posts?

[implosion]

Unvote

VOTE: PenguinPower

Still not really a fan of Mala, happy to rejoin that wagon in principle if it regains momentum.

[Datisi]

in there you had some early engagement with wiz, he flopped and drew a lot of attention, you voted elsewhere. you then spend most of your scumhunting time engaging with relm while keeping wiz in your scumreads but not actively pressuring him (and telling him in scumchat that things would blow over and people would find something new and shiny to focus on). you then moved onto joe and pushed there for a while. once suspicion on wiz reached kind of a critical mass with guillo being 100% convinced they were scum, you went back to wiz, voted, and then truly started the bus and went deep in casing him, around post 650 in that game

i don't think you would play things exactly the same way, but i don't think "uh i know how to bus" is valid here when, if we are tracking the same pattern of how the gamestate has progressed, we aren't yet to the point where you did a full turn onto your partner and started pushing there. and you did spend a lot of time keeping him in your top scumreads while mostly pressuring elsewhere which would be what you're doing here

also you absolutely would do things intentionally that you think people will later look back on and decide wouldn't make sense for you to do as scum. isn't that like one of your favorite things to do

wasn't that why you were waffling around about the irrel vs mena 1v1 in coalition before bloodhail came in and messed things up

so... your point is that the gamestate is vaguely similar for scumbuddies wiz/datisi, and for buddies hut/datisi... but datisi is intentionally playing different for the sake of wifom?

how likely do you think this is vs. i just so happen to be town regardless of hut's alignment?

because the argument "scumtisi sometimes does intentionally suboptimal moves" is not something you can use to justify scumreading any sort of behaviour for me. not taking a stance on mena/irrel made sense in that game, despite being a "suboptimal" move: town was supposed to chain elim them without me, and then the argument "i would've pushed them as scum" that i make in yeetlo would've had much more weight

deciding to townread a partner based on literally nothing, AFTER being one of the first people to start pushing him and getting attention on him is like, an argument that i can't really bet on anyone here thinking up and convincing themselves of it (maybe aristea, but she'd probably start correctly scumreading me for something else by the time it mattered, so like)

all risk no gain

[Datisi]

like, if i have to write an essay on why my treatment of hutmeil as a partner here is nonsense, in reference with wiz treatment, i will; but i feel like i will be able to scream my way into obvtown if hut flips red anyway, so

[fireisredsir]

deciding to townread a partner based on literally nothing, AFTER being one of the first people to start pushing him and getting attention on him is like, an argument that i can't really bet on anyone here thinking up and convincing themselves of it

townread? what

last i heard they were still like one of your top scumreads just not as much as mala

[Datisi]

fuckin rip the mala wagon i guess, i'll decide later if i have the conviction and/or willpower for trying to hardshove that wagon through

VOTE: penguinpower

i am also less and less opposed towards a fire wagon. my first thought reading his arguments for me/hut scum was that it's not useful for scum!him at all -- the argument falls flat the second hut flips green (assuming this isn't a 9001 IQ bus), and in the meantime he can get my rage onto him for making an argument that is very clearly extremely false and reachy from my pov

however, aristeia did call him out and vote him for not being inspiring in his pushes, sooooo

[Datisi]

deciding to townread a partner based on literally nothing, AFTER being one of the first people to start pushing him and getting attention on him is like, an argument that i can't really bet on anyone here thinking up and convincing themselves of it

townread? what

last i heard they were still like one of your top scumreads just not as much as mala

townread, defend, same difference

i've made posts towards hut that can be categorised as a townread if you really wanted to make my life miserable; i wasn't gonna be caught dead making such posts towards wiz

[fireisredsir]

hmmm

okay

[implosion]

however, aristeia did call him out and vote him for not being inspiring in his pushes, sooooo

I do wonder about this sort of thing sometimes, whether one ought to weight something differently if done after someone says "i'd find you townier if you did X".

I do think it's unlikely fire-scum saw ari's pressure and said "ah darn better be more inspiring", I'd imagine if fire is scum it's more just a burst of energy/motivation/inspiration or something.

[Datisi]

i think the lability of the current gamestate and the knowledge that aristeia can absolutely murder anyone here if she really wanted to make that more likely than average, but /shrug

[fireisredsir]

it is also p clearly something ive been thinking about and lightly commenting on for a while, i just didn't really care to get into it bc either

1) im wrong and it doesn't matter or
2) im right and datisi is good enough at arguing that it doesn't go anywhere

i do think his 1208 either misses or intentionally dodges the point completely, but i also think that the other point, about how he probably wouldn't be quite so obvious with his weird soft defense while still scunreading thing that he's doing, is fair and probably true. so, eh, idk, not really interested in pushing it further rn

[hutmeil]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but I guess I'll mention it again. There's too much meta in this game. "Looking back to that old game", "I remember in that other game", "You're not like that before when we played together", etc... I feel I cannot relate to what's being discussed. Sure I can go and read those old games but this game itself which is already 44 pages in length and still at D1, I don't think I have the time to go back and do that (and not for just 1 game!).

I get your point and it makes sense. I guess I should comment more on non-meta stuff (which is not a lot btw), sift through the post to find them.

I want to say something like "I understand that the amount of meta is frustrating but I feel there's a good amount of non-meta content to respond to" but thinking about it I guess most of the content in this game has been tinged by meta in some way.

Even content that is based entirely on meta can be read into in spite of not knowing the actual meta. For instance, maybe you can't evaluate whether fireisredsir's argument about Datisi's scum meta is valid, but you could get an opinion on fireisredsir based on the way they make the argument.

Thanks for the tip!

What do you think of STD's catchup posts?

So far so good. He's still catching up and he's responding as he goes. I haven't seen anything untownie from his posts. I'm taking note of 1131 though where he said Datisi could just be getting townie credits (as scum?). Other than that, I'm just waiting for his gif list.

[Aristeia]

atp I'm confused why fire has spent so much time talking to Datisi and so little time on sorting the person he's actually voting.

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

[Andante]

like, if i have to write an essay on why my treatment of hutmeil as a partner here is nonsense, in reference with wiz treatment, i will; but i feel like i will be able to scream my way into obvtown if hut flips red anyway, so

Datisi: **will take the day off the game to study for an exam**
Also Datisi: “want an essay on why I’m not maf with this specific person??”

hahahah that’s great

[Andante]

hutmeil’s ISO concerns me, there’s very few posts actually there, and it’s just “I don’t have the meta yall have” “too much meta” “I need to iso this person” “I ISOd fire and it looks like he’s scumhunting” “I hate vulture asking for claims” “I hate all Andante’s vote”

that’s the entire iso… in like 5 statements…

if you just go “feels like fire is scumhunting” and that’s your entire takeaway from ISOing fire?? unmm
idk what I think about this, but I was like “know what… pull up the iso” and… it’s not amazing..

cause bringing up the “too much meta” … AGAIN, after “I think there’s too many posts” it’s starting to feel like hut is trying to find reasons to not give reads,

cause me following along, i don’t see much if any meta talk anymore, and like, there’s so much non meta talk… like i think the only meta I said was “meta says penguin maf” but then penguin basically went “ha! look I’m town” and so like now I’m not actually convinced penguin is maf… idk that’s not a read I’m committing to at 5am on my phone, this post is about hut. I just saw a penguin vote and.. idk about that, but yeah.. ok whatever, is anyone actually TRing hutmeil here?

[VP Baltar]

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

Maybe he knows huts alignment, and not in a good way.

I also glazed over heavily during this discussion

[VP Baltar]

is anyone actually TRing hutmeil here?

Idk about TR. I remain concerned he is new to the game and trying to find his place among a bunch of people who have played together before. It's probably not where I'd want to yeet D1, because it feels like a coin flip to me still.

[Datisi]

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

Maybe he knows huts alignment, and not in a good way.

I also glazed over heavily during this discussion

do you think there's any chance scum!fire is doing this convoluted bus, or that scum!fire is doing ??? with pushing two townies idk

like i really doubt the two are paired because i don't think for starts bussing as early as he'd have had to here?

[VP Baltar]

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

Maybe he knows huts alignment, and not in a good way.

I also glazed over heavily during this discussion

do you think there's any chance scum!fire is doing this convoluted bus, or that scum!fire is doing ??? with pushing two townies idk

like i really doubt the two are paired because i don't think for starts bussing as early as he'd have had to here?

Probably unlikely, but projection does happen!

But it's not really a point worth making preflight. I'm just more concerned at how convoluted the discussion was. Could just be arguing for arguing sake though, and not something fire actually believes. Easy trap to fall into when you play

Argue Me

mafia