Open 876 - Fire and Ice - Postgame

[HighPrincessErinys]

Someone stole my IceDragon funny RVS........
VOTE: usesPython coder discrimination time

[HighPrincessErinys]

Well I was going to gripe more about how scumsided the setup is

Yeah like, ONE more town PR of some sort would've been nice.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Thinking about the setup's sidedness and how this one would change it just makes me want to run a game. But that's responsibility and responsibility is blehhh. Someone give me 50 scumtells to think about instead, please.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Hpe how’s your day going

Going good, yours?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Sure!

[HighPrincessErinys]

explain

Skill issue

UNVOTE: drew Bear

What's with all the unvotes?

Good point.
VOTE: Mala

UNVOTE: furtive
VOTE: Dragon

-C

Rather on-board for this but don't feel like taking this into genuine wagon territory quite right now.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Allow me to elaborate: Aureal made a non-point, IceDragon voted because of it. That's wacky, but this one doesn't particularly want to push that as "woah!! scum!!" YET, but Ice is def on my scumlist for it. Can't exactly say if the unvotes are characteristic of Mala or not but she's a force of chaos to me so it vaguely fits.

[HighPrincessErinys]

IceDragon's 43 is... kinda whatever to me? Don't exactly know what to make of it but this one does not think it has much likelihood to be an actual slip. Shrug.

[HighPrincessErinys]

i just skimmed this game before work and it makes negative sense

ill read everything more attentively later but i doubt itll make any more sense

At the risk of agreeing with you.....I uh, kinda agree.

I fear Ice is being used as mis-elim bait, they do have a style that gets them in hot water, and you kinda get that after playing a few games with them.

I kind of feel Bianco would and should know that.

Why do you think scum would go for lim-bait instead of actively hunting for the other groupscum?

-A

Trying to catch the other faction taking it hook line and sinker, perhaps? That'd be my guess.

[HighPrincessErinys]

UNVOTE: usesPython
Revoking my RVS because this one doesn't currently agree with this wagon.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one understood... Mostly none of that, unfortunately

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one thinks it trusts Python, and of course it's got a scumread on Ice for his vote on Mala, but otherwise it's... rather lacking in reads honestly. Need to give this game a look over sometime and try to come up with SOMETHING.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one thinks it trusts Python, and of course it's got a scumread on Ice for his vote on Mala, but otherwise it's... rather lacking in reads honestly. Need to give this game a look over sometime and try to come up with SOMETHING.

Why does it seem like you're afraid to vote?

Because that's what you're interpreting me as feeling.
But also because 1) Python is a townread and 2) IceDragon is a scumread, yes, but for something that's very inconclusive on it's own. He hasn't given us much else which, to be fair to you, is probably worth an eyebrow raising too, but... either way, not in a hurry to get a lim when we still have alot of discussion time available.

[HighPrincessErinys]

I like Aureal, she is good people, some say the best.

But who doesn't love a good wagon?

Or, and here me out, how about a Bianco wagon?

Either/or to drown out the mech speak.

Why not? My vote is still on mala from RVS (where is the sweet kitty anyway?)

VOTE: Bianco

Yay Black!

VOTE: Bianco

Is this one missing something?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Is this one missing something?

Yeah...this wagon as it rides on by you

Wanna jump on?

No. Tell me, both of you, why it and others should.

[HighPrincessErinys]

No. Tell me, both of you, why it and others should.

Talking points. Gauging how people respond to pressure. Y'know all that good stuff

I didn't think you would want to join us. You seem to holster your vote like it's going to blow someone's face off if you use it

Votes? Wagons? VCA? You want it, it's yours my friend!
VOTE: Black

[HighPrincessErinys]

Also, scum is more likely to acquiesce compared to town.

You mean like how this one acquiesced in the

opposite direction

whilst Black was asking it to vote with her and you on bianco?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Also, scum is more likely to acquiesce compared to town.

You mean like how this one acquiesced in the

opposite direction

whilst Black was asking it to vote with her and you on bianco?

Did you just admit you are scum?

That's a REALLY interesting way to read that post.

[HighPrincessErinys]

My question to you Drew is: Why would an acquiescing scum!HPE decide to vote Black instead of taking the easily excusable opportunity vote on bianco, or the easily excusable scumread vote on IceDragon? Not go "oh yeah, application of pressure, sure! VOTE: Some Poor Sod"? You indirectly and Black directly encouraged it to join the bianco wagon, after all.

[HighPrincessErinys]

You can try and say "HPE you're just trying to trick me by talking about the opportunity you didn't take!!" but it's like, such a braindead easy spot to throw a vote in at, or even prior when IceDragon's wagon was getting going and it refused to join.

[HighPrincessErinys]

You can try and say "HPE you're just trying to trick me by talking about the opportunity you didn't take!!" but it's like, such a braindead easy spot to throw a vote in at, or even prior when IceDragon's wagon was getting going and it refused to join.

There are a million things you 'could have' done. But why did you choose the one you did? And also, do you normally take forever to lay a vote down as Black hinted at?

But most importantly, while I think Bianco has a decent shot at being scum here, I don't think they would enjoy being called a poor sod lol.

This one doesn't see anything wrong with Bianco's posts, and it believes the wagon, for pressure or no, was 1) unnecessary and 2) kinda sus. Granted it probably should've voted you since you were the initiator of the wagon itself, but Black was the one asking me to vote, after all. Part of it was just giving in to Black wanting this one to use it's vote, but still.

And that poor sod could be bianco OR Ice!!! Maybe even a secret funny third option!!!

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one thinks it trusts Python, and of course it's got a scumread on Ice for his vote on Mala, but otherwise it's... rather lacking in reads honestly. Need to give this game a look over sometime and try to come up with SOMETHING.

explain python read.

Just getting town vibes from them but its not exactly concrete. 'Trust' might've been minor hyperbole but it's still a bit of a townlean atm.

[HighPrincessErinys]

what abt their play is making u townread them.

The meta reads related to Mala/Dragon (even if this one doesn't. care. for meta.), the mechposting, 135/137... They're just making some plays and points this one thinks are towny and genuine.

[HighPrincessErinys]

You can try and say "HPE you're just trying to trick me by talking about the opportunity you didn't take!!" but it's like, such a braindead easy spot to throw a vote in at, or even prior when IceDragon's wagon was getting going and it refused to join.

There are a million things you 'could have' done. But why did you choose the one you did? And also, do you normally take forever to lay a vote down as Black hinted at?

But most importantly, while I think Bianco has a decent shot at being scum here, I don't think they would enjoy being called a poor sod lol.

This one doesn't see anything wrong with Bianco's posts, and it believes the wagon, for pressure or no, was 1) unnecessary and 2) kinda sus. Granted it probably should've voted you since you were the initiator of the wagon itself, but Black was the one asking me to vote, after all. Part of it was just giving in to Black wanting this one to use it's vote, but still.

And that poor sod could be bianco OR Ice!!! Maybe even a secret funny third option!!!

Pressure is always necessary, especially this early in a game, not sure why you don't see that.

Do you normally take forever to vote as Black hinted at?

And honestly thought my 8 Mile joke would get a bit more of a reaction here.....this makes me sad.

This one isn't always conscious of its habits so it can't say for sure if thats a Thing. Also the only things this one knows about Eminem are memes like mom's spaghetti and bornana.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Consequences of sleeping until 3:30pm, missing like 5 pages.

I thought you were bragging in one game that you never flipped scum before? Unless you have an alt i'm not aware of I guess. Either way you're scum here.

Black's been scum in Newbie 2111, Newbie 2113, Newbie 2116. It's basically a meme at this point that Black can't roll town in Newbie games

Sounds like my polar opposite because this one just can't roll scum.

HPE do you think Black is acting similar to DN?

That's... a good question. This one will have to check later honestly.

I don't really think python "main hunting" is AI though

Convenient of you to ignore my first point. Using meta as the foundation of your vote is not town behavior

Python's mainhunting was explicitly used to provide meta to base their Dragon vote on. If using meta as the foundation of a vote is not town behaviour, then you should think it's AI, isn't it?

VOTE: Black

This is a good point though.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one is going to hit up Black's ISO in DN shortly because ok yeah a bit of an actual scumread is starting to form, but we'll see.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Okay first big red flag on Black (or black flag, it guesses) is that none of her DN solving effort really seems to be present. Maybe that's just a consequence of how DN's setup was, but... This setup is kinda similar in it's extra emphasis on day-time analysis to find scum since there's no investigatives, which even

DN

had one!

[HighPrincessErinys]

Okay first big red flag on Black (or black flag, it guesses) is that none of her DN solving effort really seems to be present. Maybe that's just a consequence of how DN's setup was, but... This setup is kinda similar in it's extra emphasis on day-time analysis to find scum since there's no investigatives, which even

DN

had one!

Can you elaborate on this? My solving effort consists of me asking questions. How is this game any different?

You've hardly been doing that, and your questions asked don't do a lot altogether, honestly. They're like, okay questions, not really scummy, but their frequency and contents don't match the amount of solving you put into DN. Maybe you need more time, but still, it's giving me bad vibes.

Very extremely unrelated but now exactly 2000 of your posts are NOT from DN.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Can't exactly speak on that when this one has no experience with them, but they did also make meta points against IceDragon and Malakittens THIS GAME though, so dunno if this is exactly a not town thing to do... Eh.

[HighPrincessErinys]

"You might be genuine but you probably aren't but if you are you're other groupscum"? Can you explain further?

What I'm saying is you might think I'm scum. That part can be genuine. But that doesn't mean you are town like it would in a normal setup

While this IS technically true... It benefits town either way to nail scum, scum!Python or not.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Yeah but then it loses them even more town points if you flip town. Unless you just slipped?

Do you actually think I'm getting flipped off of a meta case today? Because I don't, and I guarantee you Kokichi doesn't either. He ends D1 with a net gain in town points, and doesn't lose any until I flip town

This doesn't parse for this one. How does he gain town points if you just... flip town? ESPECIALLY after all this?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Mmh, this one isn't too super sure how it feels about this wagon as a whole. Might just head over to the Drew wagon since materializing and calling for others to join a bianco wagon still leaves a bad taste in its mouth.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Mmh, this one isn't too super sure how it feels about this wagon as a whole. Might just head over to the Drew wagon since materializing and calling for others to join a bianco wagon still leaves a bad taste in its mouth.

I thought, and still do think, that Bianco has a high probability of being scum. You can disagree with me on that read, but why wouldn't I want a wagon on a scum read?

Can you atleast elaborate on why bianco feels scummy to you?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Mmh, this one isn't too super sure how it feels about this wagon as a whole. Might just head over to the Drew wagon since materializing and calling for others to join a bianco wagon still leaves a bad taste in its mouth.

I thought, and still do think, that Bianco has a high probability of being scum. You can disagree with me on that read, but why wouldn't I want a wagon on a scum read?

Also HPE, probably got buried, but wanted to make sure you saw this and wondered your thoughts.

Not really anything on that post in particular because yeah fair vote your scumreads, which is why this one asked you

why

you scumread them.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one still doesn't like Drew and his bianco wagon but it's gripes now are mostly about how he went about starting it and discussing it because he didn't really bring up WHY he did until 432, a good long while after actually starting the wagon which seems counter-intuitive when starting a wagon. Though it also doesn't think it necessarily agrees with his reasoning for it either, but, eh..

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one still doesn't like Drew and his bianco wagon but it's gripes now are mostly about how he went about starting it and discussing it because he didn't really bring up WHY he did until 432, a good long while after actually starting the wagon which seems counter-intuitive when starting a wagon. Though it also doesn't think it necessarily agrees with his reasoning for it either, but, eh..

Thought he explained it even before the vote?

-A

i just skimmed this game before work and it makes negative sense

ill read everything more attentively later but i doubt itll make any more sense

At the risk of agreeing with you.....I uh, kinda agree.

I fear Ice is being used as mis-elim bait, they do have a style that gets them in hot water, and you kinda get that after playing a few games with them.

I kind of feel Bianco would and should know that.

Hm, this one supposes that bit is true, but the rest of his vote reasoning goes unexplained other than "bianco is probably scum" until that post. Its just kinda bad vibes in general.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one still doesn't like Drew and his bianco wagon but it's gripes now are mostly about how he went about starting it and discussing it because he didn't really bring up WHY he did until 432, a good long while after actually starting the wagon which seems counter-intuitive when starting a wagon. Though it also doesn't think it necessarily agrees with his reasoning for it either, but, eh..

I don't think it's necessarily scummy to start a wagon and withhold the reasoning. It can be but a lot of times people will do this to interpret the reaction. Showing all your cards (ie: your reason for doing it) can impact the reaction so I can see town reasons for withholding the information

Not sure if that's the case with Drew here but the action itself isn't that bad imo

That's fair, but it's really the length of time for me. Right around 250 posts with only post quoted by Python to really explain the wagon. Not showing your entire hand at once can very much be a good play but if you want a wagon to take off you probably need to give people a reason to vote, unless you're just counting on others also thinking the same about someone before you elaborate.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Oh almost forgot, hey everyone.

I am not really fond of multiballs but not worry, i play them exactly as normal games.


Badly.

Splendid.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Haaaa... This whole thing reeks of weird. UNVOTE: Black

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: furtiveglance
Fucking RANCID vibes from you this game furtive. Though in general this whole situation with python/black/drew just stinks of

extremely

strange play.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one doesn't think it wants a Black elim anymore, and it's not very sure about voting like, Python or Drew either at the moment. But its pretty sure that it'd like to elim furtive who really is not playing like he normally would in its opinion.

[HighPrincessErinys]

If Kokichi was scum I'd have expected them to have tried to discredit Aureal in 430 for example, and like yeah I can think their meta push is bad and also think they're town

-A

You were the one who went along with the push?

[HighPrincessErinys]

if Kokichi was scum pushing town then you'd also have to be scum.

-A

We townread you already by then btw which is why we didn't bother worrying about that scenario

-A

Yeah, it just sounded moreso like you weren't quite acknowledging that you were part of the push, but true it takes a while to thoroughly read and analyze an ISO and make a different judgement. Either way though there's something very fishy going on which has this one not sure who to vote and how to proceed.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one doesn't think it wants a Black elim anymore, and it's not very sure about voting like, Python or Drew either at the moment. But its pretty sure that it'd like to elim furtive who really is not playing like he normally would in its opinion.

Unfortunately this type of play is well within furtive's townrange now. I'm not trying to sway you away from voting him but I don't think I'll be joining you. This behavior is NAI for him

Is it in his scumrange? Not really sure, never seen it. Is it in his townrange? This one would say No, god no. Even a cursory skim will paying attention to the post numbers will inform you that this isn't much like these two town games of his where he actually makes conversation and multiple posts in a short span, or otherwise just yknow NOT waiting hundreds of posts to put a vote with the equivalent of "yeah kinda sus" and nothing else. Again, this one has never seen scum!Furtive to date, but it has to wonder if that's what it's seeing here today.

[HighPrincessErinys]

EBWOP: while paying attention
lame ass typos making my messages less cool and insightful...

[HighPrincessErinys]

But overall Furtive is giving me the heebie-jeebies and so this one is parking on him for the time being.

[HighPrincessErinys]

viewtopic.php?t=90425

You can iso furtive here and see how his town play just kinda degrades into nothing towards the end

That's towards the end. We're still on Day 1 here.

[HighPrincessErinys]

@HPE - I'll take a look at that first link you sent because it's pretty recent, but the 2nd one was from last year so I'm not sure what his meta was like then

Also I have no clue what furtive's scum game is like

"Last year" is technically correct in the most pointless way when it's a game that started in December and ended in February.

[HighPrincessErinys]

But like, yeah furtive could very well just be disinterested in the game more than anything, but this one just

doesn't

like the vibe its getting. It'll have to read the HV ISO later to get a picture of his scum game and evaluate what to do from there.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Pretty sure also that Black was defending you, furtive...

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: The Bulge
This one supposes it's willing to vote here.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This is the second time you've mentioned Yellow M&Ms, are you hungry furtive?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Insulting someone's play = insulting them if you ask me.

[HighPrincessErinys]

grim: i do agree tho, looking at them more closely, drew seems to not be focused on defending his tr, but i don't think that specifically makes him and bulge aligned w/ one another

Yeah honestly wouldn't you WANT to defend your scumpartner in this hypothetical Drew/Bulge scumteam?

[HighPrincessErinys]

grim: i do agree tho, looking at them more closely, drew seems to not be focused on defending his tr, but i don't think that specifically makes him and bulge aligned w/ one another

Yeah honestly wouldn't you WANT to defend your scumpartner in this hypothetical Drew/Bulge scumteam?

Not... really? If anything I'd expect Drew to defend Bulge more agressively if it was a framing attempt actually.

Defend your partner to frame them...? Huh?

[HighPrincessErinys]

It's a hypothetical.

[HighPrincessErinys]

To make it very explicit:

• For scum the only unacceptable lim is a lim on their own groupscum, if town gets limmed then they're still tied in first place for winrate in an X/2/2 scenario so they don't really mind a town mislim if preventing it means they have to stick their neck out for them.
  
• For town, a lim on any scum is acceptable and a lim on any town is unacceptable.

In otherwords, the strongest scumtells in multiball outside of awkward S/S interactions are:

• Refusing to townhunt (Weak tell, could come down to playstyle)
  
• Not doing everything in your power to defend people you consider town (Strong tell)

In other words, you highly suspect Drew's lack of defense on his TR?

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one is gonna be real in that it's kinda... lost the plot a bit here? It's been reading but it doesn't think it's necessarily been understanding, just that it's probably elimming someone in the range of you (BIG maybe)/Drew/Bulge. A lot of the scumreads on your behavior have felt kinda uncharitable in a way...? Really don't know, it's 4:10am either way, but this one is pretty sure either way that its probably not getting a grasp on what's REALLY up when there's less alive people to have to think about.

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: Malakittens
Fine, me too.

[HighPrincessErinys]

UNVOTE:

actually, true, enchant exists.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Seems like every wagon we start up is going to sit at E-2 until we have a consensus that we actually want it go through because E-1 puts it into Enchant lolhammer range.

[HighPrincessErinys]

I’m ok with Enchant, but I don’t want to end the day just yet.

And an Enchant lolhammer ends the day. Ergo...

pedit: no wait

[HighPrincessErinys]

Seems like every wagon we start up is going to sit at E-2 until we have a consensus that we actually want it go through because E-1 puts it into Enchant lolhammer range.

Keeping Enchant at E-2 to prevent them from lolhammering themselves :lol:

-A

He probably would.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Wtf.

Ok, I get that my vote on Payton was bad. But a couple things.

Instead of allowing an user to control my vote I placed it myself so at least I could deal with the consequences.

These are the consequences, it believes.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Ngl this game's getting a bit tiring, feels like walking in circles. Can we just kill someone already? I'm fine with Mala, Bulge or even Black

This one agrees that honestly bodies just need to start hitting the floor so we have less people to consider outside of their now-revealed associatives.

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: usesPython
This one doesn't necessarily feel GOOD about this vote but it thinks it's townread Python for long enough. Sorry.

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: usesPython
This one doesn't necessarily feel GOOD about this vote but it thinks it's townread Python for long enough. Sorry.

This post just feels bad

Day really just needs to end at this point and Python's posts have made less and less game sense as time has gone on it feels. Still not really opposed to Bulge/Mala though.

[HighPrincessErinys]

um. what the fuck did this one just come back to.

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[HighPrincessErinys]

You scum read them right?

You know what's funny? I think I townread them now

VOTE: Black

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one doesn't currently have the time to consider that, it's pretty fuckin' late, but rn my tired mind is going "thats an insane turnaround"

[HighPrincessErinys]

You scum read them right?

You know what's funny? I think I townread them now

VOTE: Black

Your recent vote hopping is wild

Can you REALLY blame me?

[HighPrincessErinys]

UNVOTE: Koki

Still ok with this lim but I don't really want a hammer tonight

Again, no mention of Aureal here.

There were 3 posts in that sequence and you conveniently left out the one about Aureal :lol:

I'll ask you the same question as HPE. If Koki isn't my partner, what is the scum motivation behind me doing this?

This one doesn't see ANY town or scum motivation, frankly. It's a pretty damn confusing move.

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one mostly means the "hmm maybe its townread".

[HighPrincessErinys]

what

[HighPrincessErinys]

well.

[HighPrincessErinys]

going to be disappointed if koki doesnt walk away with some formal reprimand but this game's vibes in general were Awful

[HighPrincessErinys]

going to be disappointed if koki doesnt walk away with some formal reprimand but this game's vibes in general were Awful

Yeah, I'm sure of ALL people this game, I'M the one who broke rules

this one stopped paying much attention after it died so your flagrant ignorance of plurality stuck out.

[HighPrincessErinys]

jumpscare