Open 895 - 09:12 PM - Postgame

[Claptastik]

Elements, are you always this chaotic at the beginning of a game? Does it continue?

[Claptastik]

Honestly limming me here might be the most optimal play

Because I am town, and if the mafia knew my capabilities they would know I win here if left alive for more than 1 day as town. So mafia should kill me tonight.

Therefore the most optimal thing for me to do is die and give info on my way out, since I can give more info being the mislim than I can being NK'd.

What do you all think?

I think it's an open setup and you're full of shit.

[Claptastik]

V/LA until Tuesday afternoon or so.

[Claptastik]

What are your thoughts on me?

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Elements

[Claptastik]

I'm not sure you are, but I like the vote.

[Claptastik]

scumread on elements is growing by the post

Tell me more.

[Claptastik]

Elements seems to get limmed Day 1 often.

That's probably not a bad thing in most cases.

[Claptastik]

If they're a bad player it's cool. Fact is that d1 lims don't hit scum any better than random chance. So, taking out a person who's junking up the thread and will be difficult to read later is logical if no one is particularly scummy.

[Claptastik]

What is hypoclaiming?

[Claptastik]

Claptastik's push on Elements feels really lazy and 100 pings me as really weird for how early in the game it was made.

Speaking of lazy pushes, you've talked ABOUT me a couple times, but made no attempt to talk TO me. Is that how you usually sort people?

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Claptastik

not planning on policying — that was my expression of frustration at gob

Can you answer 135

Similar thing here. You vote me, then follow up with an unrelated question to someone else. Can you explain the thought process in that sequence?

[Claptastik]

Honestly limming me here might be the most optimal play

Because I am town, and if the mafia knew my capabilities they would know I win here if left alive for more than 1 day as town. So mafia should kill me tonight.

Therefore the most optimal thing for me to do is die and give info on my way out, since I can give more info being the mislim than I can being NK'd.

What do you all think?

I think it's an open setup and you're full of shit.

Full of shit how?

I initially read this as referring to a role power. Now I get that you're just claiming s tier scum hunting skills.

[Claptastik]

If they're a bad player it's cool. Fact is that d1 lims don't hit scum any better than random chance. So, taking out a person who's junking up the thread and will be difficult to read later is logical if no one is particularly scummy.

Elements doesnt seem too junky to me.

I do find them a little scummy though.

How about we lim you Claptastic?

On second read elements looks townier.

[Claptastik]

ssbm/black is my strongest pairing right now but i'm willing to be wrong there

think i'd sort like
{ssbm_kyouko, black}
{elements, gob}
{claptastik} is null for lack of activity
{mizuki}
{shaddowez, doc and drew}

I'm close to this. Biggest difference is ssbm. Why town? She talks more about past games than this one.

[Claptastik]

Cook gob black elements - varying degrees of town.

Every one else null or lower.

Feeling pretty good about this game rn.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: Ssbm

[Claptastik]

Feeling worse about Claptastic after their catch up

Why?

FYI I was on phone and I'm not used to posting by phone.

[Claptastik]

ssbm/black is my strongest pairing right now but i'm willing to be wrong there

think i'd sort like
{ssbm_kyouko, black}
{elements, gob}
{claptastik} is null for lack of activity
{mizuki}
{shaddowez, doc and drew}

Is this traditionally ordered, like in tiers of town down to scum?

nope, it's reverse ordered

No clue what to think of this. Shaddowez had one post at that point, which merely announced his VLA. Not top-tier-town activity.

[Claptastik]

ssbm/black is my strongest pairing right now but i'm willing to be wrong there

think i'd sort like
{ssbm_kyouko, black}
{elements, gob}
{claptastik} is null for lack of activity
{mizuki}
{shaddowez, doc and drew}

I'm close to this. Biggest difference is ssbm. Why town?

She talks more about past games than this one.

VOTE: Ssbm

Is this why you're voting me?

Yes, obviously. You talk old games and setup spec. I don't see you trying to sort people at all.

[Claptastik]

I like wagons

Me too, particularly on myself. Take a look at my current wagon. What are you getting from it?

and I couldn't really find anything townie in your ISO

Disagree. I see 4 townie posts by me at that point, particularly considering the stage of the game and that I was VLA.

[Claptastik]

No way is Cook scum unless gob is also scum imo. If it weren't for the fake hammer I would not believe they were real. There are some there that make absolutely no sense and part of the reason I'm questioning them is to see if I'm missing the sense, and if not, to bring Cook to her senses because putting shaddowez into the highest town tier is actual nonsense. Here, let me quote shaddowez'

whole ISO

:

VOTE: Gob

Technically V/LA, will be back Monday

Absolutely true. I don't know if Cook was screwing around for reaction by saying reverse order, but if not, he needs to explain that shaddowez read.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: clap

I can't throw stones about post count/engagement, but the posts he has don't seem like he's trying to find information. 190 and 191 are super interesting, considering Cook clarifies in 200 that the order was reversed. In 189 he back off his Elements read, but completely ignores the question of limming him.

This post is as delicious as a Tim Horton's double-double with a box of Timbits.

[Claptastik]

Claptastik's push on Elements feels really lazy and 100 pings me as really weird for how early in the game it was made.

Speaking of lazy pushes, you've talked ABOUT me a couple times, but made no attempt to talk TO me. Is that how you usually sort people?

Yes, frankly. I don't really engage super heavily with people unless I want to get inside their headspace. You can call it strange, and tbh it is, but I tend to do better when I sort of, approach the game as an outsider? If that makes sense? As if I'm solving as a spectator rather than an active player. It's also just kind of how I talk.

That's fair. Different people have different approaches. But as a spectator, how did you conclude that I made a push on Elements? Here's what happened:

91 - I naked vote Elements.
92 - Elements asks why I think it's scum.
93 - I say I'm not at all sure, but I like the vote.

If that were a "push," I'd agree that it was lazy. But IMO you're being disingenuous in describing that as a "push."

[Claptastik]

UNVOTE: ssbm
This is looking better.

[Claptastik]

My POE scumpool is currently:

2. Doc and Drew (hydra of Gamma Emerald and Doctor Drew)
5. shaddowez
6. Mizuki

My current wagon is, in order: Mizuki, Black, shaddowez

It's highly unlikely that Mizuki/shaddowez are a team and both already on me. With 5 to lim, typical scum behavior would be to put one on in third position, second one in reserve to hammer. That means my current solve is shaddowez/Doc and Drew. Neither has much content - as already noted, this is based heavily on POE.

VOTE: shaddowez

[Claptastik]

you seemed disconnected in a way

but i just read some of ur stuff u seem towny so ur good today

Where are you on Doc and Drew, and shaddowez? I know there's not much content there yet so not expecting much, but still curious.

[Claptastik]

In 189 he back off his Elements read,

but completely ignores the question of limming him.

Let me get this straight. In 101, gob said, "How about we lim you Claptastic?"

I quoted that in 189.

Is this what you're referring to in the bolded part above?

[Claptastik]

Are you a 'lim all lurkers' type?

Thank you!

I said that that post was a POE analysis.

I knew that the lim all lurkers charge could be made, so I specifically repeated that you two don't have much content, and that this was POE, so that no reasonable person would make that charge.

Yet, here you are making it.

Plus, Beetlejuice!

I might address your other points later.

[Claptastik]

In 189 he back off his Elements read,

but completely ignores the question of limming him.

Let me get this straight. In 101, gob said, "How about we lim you Claptastic?"

I quoted that in 189.

Is this what you're referring to in the bolded part above?

That was exactly what I referring to, since you didn't respond to it between those two posts, and in 189 where you quoted it you also just completely ignored it.

LMAO. What would you expect me to say to that as town or as scum?

[Claptastik]

I have a big ego, I just want everyone to talk about me before I post lol.

But, I was just asking, never liked that strategy for D1 at least. Your defensiveness trumps my Beetlejuice lol.

You seem to be saying that you find it scummy when someone defends against false charges. Is that correct?

[Claptastik]

Are you really calling your own posts townie?

Yes.

How exactly?

My problems with her were that she was talking about old games and setup spec. Check her ISO - at 197 she started a series of posts which were about the players in this game. I'm concerned that she may have done that

because

I made those observations, but for now, I'm looking elsewhere.

What do you think of my reads so far (other than yourself)?

[Claptastik]

Not really anywhere on them to be honest. I dont want to lim a hydra day 1 though thats lame

I find this interesting and would like to discuss it, but the last time I made a post about theory it "pinged" some people.

[Claptastik]

True, but if Cook is telling the truth about it being reversed, Clap's agreement almost seems appeasy.

How do you figure that?

In the post itself Cook says she's paring you and black which are in the top tier, so to "agree" with it means Clap didn't actually pay attention.

Agreeing with it (with the notable exception of kyouko) would mean that my reads are very different from hers. You could logically charge that my read on cook should change due to that - and I'm reevaluating it - but I don't understand the "appeasy" thing.

[Claptastik]

I do enjoy a three way dance, if anything this will get me more into the game at least lol.

Yeah, like my scum read did!

[Claptastik]

I basically have this setup solved and im not joking.

Cool,who are the scum?

[Claptastik]

OK, what are the strong TRs?

[Claptastik]

Kyouko is either town who sees a lot of things like I do, or scum working hard to pocket me. Probably the first.

[Claptastik]

You could re-read. I thought the reaction to the supposed hammer felt legit first time through. Just read it again, still feels pretty real.

[Claptastik]

Claptastik, who do you think has gone under the radar? Who do you think has the highest potential to be deepwolf?

Now that shaddowez and D&D are getting some attention, no one has truly gone under the radar. Regarding deepwolf potential: Black, Elements. Black is playing a seemingly solid game, and is posting and interacting a lot so I can't say she's "under the radar," but she hasn't gotten much pressure at all. Kind of hiding in plain sight. With Elements, there are some people who play scum by gathering a lot of attention early, when it's too early to be limmed. Then the pressure dies off and they can sometimes coast for quite a while. I could see that with Elements.

What do you think about my Kyouko scumread
>?

She moved from the meta/setup talk and is putting effort into sorting. She is noticing and questioning things that should be noticed and questioned. I think she's town.

What's the basis of your scum read on her?

[Claptastik]

What do you call post 100 if not a push? You're actively giving a reason as to why you want an Elements elimination there, and again, it seems like you were pushing for it with zero actual interest in figuring out her actual alignment.

100 is a point on mafia theory in response to 99. Seems obvious to me in context.

[Claptastik]

Mizuki. Definitely feels weird and potentially scummy, but also like mislim bait. Not in the sense they're LHF moreso just the gamestate. Would still lim this Day 1.

Check Mizuki's reaction to the "hammer." It feels genuine to me. More importantly, she gives a couple fairly solid town reads due to it. Scum don't want to box themselves in with reads like that, it reduces options down the road.

[Claptastik]

Nah but not limming Shaddowez actually. The way he came back when questioned to engage is more towny than not.

Huh? Are you referring to 243? If so, hard disagree.

[Claptastik]

Who do you think has the highest potential to be deepwolf?

Forgot about this because I'm talking with you, but you're in the potential deepwolf bin too.

[Claptastik]

Not referring to that exactly, moreso his interactions with me after coming back from being vla.

WTF? Your interactions with him after coming back consist of:

shaddowez i think has been a little under the radar.

I literally posted an RVS vote and have been V/LA. Stop ruining my scum game

That's a really, really weak reason to move someone out of your limmable today group. Very sus. At this point, if he flipped red, I'd push you pretty hard.

With that said, your situation with snivy. So basically Snivy is SRing you because you didn't respond to me saying you I wanted to lim you and then you ignored it.

I think that is a fine thing to call out. Now if it is a misunderstanding and you didn't actually do that, it's another thing. But could just be a misunderstanding.

Is snivy a pet name for shaddowez?

[Claptastik]

Idk what you're trying to pull, but if you just quote one thing and say "wow thats a really really really weak reason" yea it looks weak when you frame it like that.

So now I have to consider you could be powerwolfing. Probably me wishful thinking thoever.

but seriously. I read all his posts and think he's out of the lim group for Day 1. Why you acting like I committed a crime?

Just quote one thing? You referenced your interactions with him after his return from VLA. That one thing I quoted was your one and only interaction with him after his return from VLA. It's not framing, it's just a fact.

That said, pre-flip associatives don't have much of an influence on my D1 reads. I put it out there in case it's useful later. The only way it bites you is if shaddowez is scum, and you're not terribly concerned about that rn anyway.

[Claptastik]

Someone (or 2) should vote shaddowez with me.

[Claptastik]

self vote in the meantime

I've done that already
I need a new wagon
VOTE: Mizuki

I am a fan of hydra dissonance

VOTE: Mizuki

-Drew(thought I could sign as Doc and still would make sense, definitely will not get confusing at all haha)

You two are still on an RVS vote. Vote shaddowez with me.

[Claptastik]

i also read black as mafia. the naked vote changes aren't really doing her any favors

Do you think Elements is even scummier?

[Claptastik]

i'd put elements as townier than black right now but i still don't enjoy either of them yet

Yet your vote is on Elements.

[Claptastik]

I don't like someone telling me to join a wagon, especially when said person hasn't been a fan of me(and my hydra)

-Doc

OMGUS certainly isn't going to make me a fan, or help us to win the game.

[Claptastik]

Personally, I have no problem with naked vote changes on D1.

D2 and later, naked vote changes can warrant some questioning and analysis.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: kyouko

After looking over things I think this is probably the most likely to flip scum

Outside of her mech talk and associative argument with gob/cook, there isn't much substance here. I think it's really easy for scum to just rely on discussing mech and wild theories like 211 and 221. I just don't think this read makes a lot of sense. Cook and gob can be scum individually without the other being scum and the fact that kyouko honed in on this kinda seems like busy work to me. It makes me think she knows they're town

I don't think there is a lot to like about Doc and Drew so I would probably be willing to vote here too

I think gob is probably town

Cook is likely town but I'm still worried that they faked the hammer reaction. I think her push on me for naked voting is probably more likely to come from paranoid town

I see what people are saying on Kyouko. As noted earlier, I think she did change her posting to be more relevant. Unfortunately, that was after some pressure was put on her, so not sure if the change was legit. But that's not somewhere I want to vote today.

Regarding shaddowez, we need information from him, but I checked his activity and he hasn't been very active on site at all so far this month, so I don't think that's gonna happen.

Regarding Doc and Drew, I see nothing to like there, but I need to sit back a bit and assess if my read there is affected by emotion, as I think at least one of them is kind of a dick (forget which one).

[Claptastik]

That could be possible, and I might be clouded by some of there posts towards me coming off a bit snarky, plus I was in a mood yesterday lol, I will reassess that later when I have time.

Well, when you hardly post at all, then when you finally do, you talk about being impatient and insist that other people respond to your questions promptly, you'll frequently generate some snark, and deservedly so.

[Claptastik]

I've played with shaddow recently and his activity is very sporadic. I don't think it's a scumtell of his

I don't think low activity is necessarily scummy. In some circumstances it's town motivated. I pushed him because I wanted to get more from him, so that we could get a better read. I don't get why you and Doc assume that a push is necessarily for a lim. They have other purposes, like getting the target to participate, or generating wagons for later analysis.

[Claptastik]

I agree. Why are you assuming that I assumed this? I was just telling you my thoughts on his activity and how it pertains to his alignment

Fair, change the assumption part to just D&D.

You seem a little self-conscious about your vote here

My emotions have given me tunnel vision on town too many times. I'm trying to avoid that.

[Claptastik]

Meh, fuck it.

VOTE: Doc and Drew

[Claptastik]

I would be fine going there but can you explain why you don't want kyouko today?

Looking at her ISO it's better than I recalled.

52 - asks gob if anyone in this game has played with him as town
53 - I misunderstood gob, she asked me about it
54 & 55 - talks about a previous run of this setup
57 - good question to gob regarding his claims of proficiency
78 - gob suggested you were mafia, she said you hadn't even posted yet. I think gob was screwing around and she took it too seriously, but still, a good post.
106 - votes cook for talking about policy voting. Weak, but at this point all votes are thin. More importantly, notes that gob is very confident and puts a town read on him.

I don't have time to continue rn, maybe later if you're still on her. It looks to me like someone who's mostly trying to solve the game, with a few posts on setup spec and past games. Less of the setup spec/past games posts than I thought.

Why do you think she's scummy?

[Claptastik]

I would be fine going there but can you explain why you don't want kyouko today?

If you were on D&D, that would be:

Claptastik: Mizuki, shaddowez, Doc and Drew

Doc and Drew: Elements, Claptastik, Black

And that would be a pretty sweet contrast. Of the 5 other than myself, I have you, Elements, and Mizuki above the null line, shaddowez and D&D below it.

[Claptastik]

Mainly vibes that are based around her trying to seem busy by talking about mech and theories that don't really make sense. Not a very strong read. But tbf none of my reads are atm

Have you revisited her ISO? When I did, and actually started categorizing posts, there wasn't as much of that as I recalled. Also not that many that were long and complicated, which I believe is gob's problem with her.

[Claptastik]

I like the contrast of those wagons. Today has been pretty productive.

[Claptastik]

Can i just get a free pass on explaining myself this game? I'm town and I think my unwillingness to engage with people on their own terms should show that.

I think we go Mizuki here. Claptastik is very towny, frankly the wagon on Claptastik stinks. Mizuki and Shaddowez are both possibly mafia. Doc and rew could be but like i said before, if they are they are prone to spewing so its final to keep them alive.

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

Why the change on shaddowez?

[Claptastik]

I don't love the wagon (Clap is fine), but aside from that, I don't really want to lim Gamma's hydra right now because I can read her really well and the content isn't there to read yet.

If that's true and she's scum, you've just told her to let Doc do all the posting.

[Claptastik]

Hoping Cook comes back soon. I feel like we're stalled until she does a catchup.

[Claptastik]

Still waiting on shadow's catch-up too...

I gave up on hoping for that.

[Claptastik]

Are you really that cool if you didn't take post 420?

Well played.

[Claptastik]

I would like to lim Kyouko everyone. I have yet to find a better option.

Who is with me? Kyouko, if youre town here just take the mislim

I like you gob but I don't see your case on Kyouko. Black's response to you on the last page was pretty accurate.

[Claptastik]

I'm really not satisfied with shaddow's "catch-up"

It's like prying teeth trying to get anything out of him and when he's finally at his PC he gives us next to nothing

I'm just getting the vibe that maybe he's trying to coast through the day and not say much. There's questions in his ISO but I'm not getting the sense that he's all that interested in finding scum

Yep. I'd rather vote shaddow than D&D, but that push didn't go anywhere.

[Claptastik]

There's still time, let's give him a day and see if he has anything.

[Claptastik]

I'd really like to hear D&D's read on shaddowez and vice-versa. Actually all of their reads, but those would be good ones to start with.

[Claptastik]

VOTE: shaddowez

[Claptastik]

That was underwhelming.

We need votes on shaddowez.

[Claptastik]

Why is Cook no voting anyone is a better question

Exactly what I was thinking. The speculation that shaddow flips VT, along with no vote out, is scummy af.

[Claptastik]

Why is Cook no voting anyone is a better question

Exactly what I was thinking. The speculation that shaddow flips VT, along with no vote out, is scummy af.

Why is not voting scummy

Why is giving intent to hammer then changing your mind scummy?

Because the only thing that could have changed your mind is Cook saying she thought shaddow was a VT

If you're scum you don't want a VT to claim. You'd rather run someone else up that is more likely to be a PR

Why would elements blindly accept cook's guess?

[Claptastik]

He could have done that without cook's input.

Shaddowez' iso takes like 30 seconds to read.

[Claptastik]

Why are you more concerned with element's supposed reaction, than with Cook bringing it up in the first place?

[Claptastik]

I'm on my phone.

I have elements on the north side of null. You?

[Claptastik]

I see element's play today as erratic town. I don't see scum motivation.

[Claptastik]

I need to be on a computer to answer that.

[Claptastik]

Later today.

I think ar this point the lim is highly likely to be doc or shaddow. Do you really find elements scummier than both of those?

[Claptastik]

I'd have to take a look when I get to my PC myself but like I said I think I'm a little confident in my ability to read Drew and Gamma as they post more

I'm not sure about shaddow. I still wouldn't mind going here but my current paranoia is directed at Elements and that makes me think she's spewing shaddow as town

I just reviewed and I don't see elements spewing shaddow as town. You made that charge but I don't see it actually happening.

[Claptastik]

I'm not sure about shaddow. I still wouldn't mind going here but my current paranoia is directed at Elements and that makes me think she's spewing shaddow as town

If I'm scum, shadow is town

I don't but the vt/ pr argument, but this kind of paying is scummy.

[Claptastik]

Posting

[Claptastik]

Why is not voting scummy

Because there's two days left. Claiming to have scum reads, but not voting, looks like scum not wanting to commit to a wagon that may not succeed.

[Claptastik]

Because the only thing that could have changed your mind is Cook saying she thought shaddow was a VT

If you're scum you don't want a VT to claim. You'd rather run someone else up that is more likely to be a PR

What kind of people are likely to be a PR?

[Claptastik]

Yeah perhaps. Then there's the argument that scum!Elements didn't think to PR hunt until Cook said something

I kinda just think Elements is the best fade here.

You're admitting that you have a gut read against Elements, which is fine. But you're really reaching to justify it with logic and evidence, and that's not working.

[Claptastik]

South side of null

In curious what town pings you have gotten from her

249 - starts activity on Doc
304 & 306 - defends you against cook's charge of naked vote changes
338 - gives me a town read when I have 3 votes on me IIRC. Also town reads you and gob. Limiting mislim options = town pings.
358 - puts out a theory which you then say you've considered yourself. That should be a town ping to you.
366, 463 - trying to get a kyouko wagon going when there are other, easier mislim opportunities. Or are you going to say that she must think kyouko is a PR?
471 - points out a possible town slip by shaddowez
511 - still trying to get votes on kyouko

There's more, but that should be enough to at least get you thinking.

[Claptastik]

Idk to me it looks like a townie that is not very conscious of their vote.

At 2 days left they damn well should be conscious of their vote.

Scum typically aren't worried about voting for their fake scumreads

Scum want to be able to get on a wagon reasonably in order to secure a mislim.

[Claptastik]

Because the only thing that could have changed your mind is Cook saying she thought shaddow was a VT

If you're scum you don't want a VT to claim. You'd rather run someone else up that is more likely to be a PR

What kind of people are likely to be a PR?

What kind of question is this

You say that scum want to run someone up who's more likely to be a PR. That means you have criteria in your mind for how PRs are likely to play. So, how well does shaddowez fit those criteria?

[Claptastik]

Why is Cook no voting anyone is a better question

Exactly what I was thinking. The speculation that shaddow flips VT, along with no vote out, is scummy af.

Why is not voting scummy

Why is giving intent to hammer then changing your mind scummy?

Because the only thing that could have changed your mind is Cook saying she thought shaddow was a VT

If you're scum you don't want a VT to claim. You'd rather run someone else up that is more likely to be a PR

Yeah perhaps.

Then there's the argument that scum!Elements didn't think to PR hunt until Cook said something

I kinda just think Elements is the best fade here. I'm starting to feel like I can trust my ability to eventually read Gamma/Drew the more they talk

I'll consolidate if I don't get much support but I think people should join me here

@Clap do you townread Elements?

So getting a PR to claim is really important to scum. But scum didn't think about it until town mentioned it?

Again, just trying to get you to consider the possibility that you may have a gut scum read on elements, and you're trying to force the evidence to fit that. And again, nothing wrong with a gut read, but be honest to yourself about it, and try to build a better case.

[Claptastik]

They almost seem like they're trying to be nullread.

I always try to be null read day 1

Why is there so much resistance to the Kyo wagon?

Maybe if you were more of a town read, your pushes would gain more traction.

I don't really see much resistance to a kyo wagon, rather it's more a lack of enthusiasm for a kyo wagon.

[Claptastik]

Maybe, I'm not very good at doing "town" things

You said you actually TRY to be nullread.

[Claptastik]

Gob what happened to you not wanting to lim elements on d1?

[Claptastik]

I might be late to the party, but Clap is really screaming town to me now.

-Doc(clearly)

Why? Got an example?

[Claptastik]

Back - apologies for forgetting to officially post my weekend V/LA.

I have a decent amount of catching up to do, but wanted to get these thoughts out first.

The wagon completely dropping from D&D concerns me. Black's unvote to not want to end the day is legit, but as soon as she does that the wagon collapses. It feels like there was probably at least one person on that wagon that knew D&D's alignment, and are using the fact that it was no longer E-1 to push somewhere else. The others on that wagon were Elements and Clap. Elements voted somewhere completely different; however, Clap moved back to me. To me, this feels like Clap knows D&D's alignment, and rather than continue to push what should be a SR easily gave up on that wagon and voted me for an easy looking push since both gob and Black had already posted about my vote seeming scummy.

VOTE: Clap

Let me get this straight. You don't like that the wagon fell apart. The first person off was Black. ~20 minutes later Elements left it, leaving me with you, one of my scum reads. 18 hours later I leave the wagon. Yet, I'm the one responsible for the wagon collapsing. Am I understanding this correctly?

[Claptastik]

These are somewhat surface level since I haven't completely finished catching up, nor have I gone back to do more associations since newer posts:

{clap, elements, mizuki}

{doc and drew, kyo, gob}

{black, cook}

There's about a day left. You have me and Elements as scummy. Elements has a wagon, I don't. Wouldn't it have made more sense at this point in the game to vote Elements?

[Claptastik]

It's D1, if you really feel a flip from me would provide the most information go for it, but it would be purely for associations/VCA since I'm not flipping scum.

Personally, yes, I think your flip would provide decent information. I also don't trust you to start participating D2.

[Claptastik]

So am I a policy lim or an actual SR?

Both. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

BTW, your charge on me applies to yourself as well. Why aren't you pushing Doc?

[Claptastik]

how is it safe to hammer if they are claiming vt like that?

WTF does that even mean?

They're not going to claim scum. That means they claim either VT or PR. It's obviously safer to lim a vt.

[Claptastik]

Running everyone up to a claim is like the worst move we can make here

I knew I was at E-1 and was going to hold until intent. The only reason I claimed is because you specifically suggested it.

Yeah I think you were correct to claim here. I don't like gob trying to run someone else up afterwards

Agreed.

[Claptastik]

South side of null

In curious what town pings you have gotten from her

249 - starts activity on Doc
304 & 306 - defends you against cook's charge of naked vote changes
338 - gives me a town read when I have 3 votes on me IIRC. Also town reads you and gob. Limiting mislim options = town pings.
358 - puts out a theory which you then say you've considered yourself. That should be a town ping to you.
366, 463 - trying to get a kyouko wagon going when there are other, easier mislim opportunities. Or are you going to say that she must think kyouko is a PR?
471 - points out a possible town slip by shaddowez
511 - still trying to get votes on kyouko

There's more, but that should be enough to at least get you thinking.

Not much has changed since the above, although I do find the disappearance at end of day a little concerning.

[Claptastik]

Elements, can you hammer this?

[Claptastik]

Elements, can you hammer this?

I can
I'd still prefer kyo

I've heard kyo's name a zillion times but it never gains traction. It's apparently not happening today.

[Claptastik]

Convince me

[Claptastik]

Convince me

im on the wagon

You don't care who gets limmed today.

Well, until someone mentions shaddowez.

[Claptastik]

I feel like gob/shaddowez could be the solution, that's part of why I want shaddowez faded. If shaddowez flips red it's game over.

[Claptastik]

I feel like gob/shaddowez could be the solution, that's part of why I want shaddowez faded. If shaddowez flips red it's game over.

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[Claptastik]

i think this is VT but whatever need to kill someone today

If so, are there scum on the wagon? Who?