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Post #17 (isolation #1) » Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:02 am
Postby Klick »
In post 10, Black wrote:
Do you guys purposely not play together or something?
We try not to, yeah. Mostly on my part. I'm uncomfortable with the potential for IRL tells unintentionally influencing my play. It's manageable up to a point, but when you live your life around someone and know them really well, it's difficult to avoid, for me at least. So I'd rather avoid the issue entirely.
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Post #36 (isolation #6) » Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:17 am
Postby Klick »
In post 28, NekoLover wrote:
@Klick Tos1, Tos2, Untrusted, First Class Trouble, etc etc
Cool. Makes sense that you'd not expect D1 votes to matter much then.
MS mafia games care about D1 more than most social deduction games. We put quite a bit of stake in the ability to sort alignment through behaviour, even early on. Consequently, our games don't tend to rely on Night Actions to solve the game as much as other sites, preferring to solve through mostly behaviour instead.
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Post #64 (isolation #12) » Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:53 am
Postby Klick »
In post 60, NekoLover wrote:
I unvoted black simply because it seems foolish to eliminate someone D1
The question of whether or not to eliminate D1 comes up often amongst players from other sites and has sometimes been a bit of a hot topic.
I'm willing to discuss the question in detail with you if that's something you're interested in
But generally, the consensus amongst players on MS is that eliminating D1 is better for villagers than not-eliminating. The Villagers only have so many chances to eliminate Mafia, and no-eliminating D1 wastes one of those shots.
In post 60, NekoLover wrote:
I unvoted black simply because it seems foolish to eliminate someone D1
The question of whether or not to eliminate D1 comes up often amongst players from other sites and has sometimes been a bit of a hot topic.
I'm willing to discuss the question in detail with you if that's something you're interested in
But generally, the consensus amongst players on MS is that eliminating D1 is better for villagers than not-eliminating. The Villagers only have so many chances to eliminate Mafia, and no-eliminating D1 wastes one of those shots.
True, but I think i'm inexperienced enough to be following a bandwagon Day 1
Don't worry about rushing it too much. Take your time to get your bearings. This day will be determined by people making reads on each other based on how people are talking. If you feel like someone is Mafia or Villager, feel free to say so. I think everyone in the game with us knows your experience level with this kind of play and will keep it in mind when you post.
The best thing you can do to help others atm is give your opinions on whether people are town or scum, even if it's just a gut feeling.
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Post #76 (isolation #15) » Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:36 am
Postby Klick »
In post 74, NekoLover wrote:
My gut feeling is that sky is mafia; because he thinks me unvoting is scum when I didn't want to bandwagon someone within an hour or two of joining the game
In post 75, NekoLover wrote:
Seems like an easy way to push a noob off if you ask me
I wouldn't be surprised if Skygazer's reasoning for voting you was a bit less straightforward than they stated.
Is there anyone in particular who you feel is unlikely to be Mafia?
In post 78, Black wrote:
I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip
Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either
i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.
My first thought upon seeing it was that it was in 'possibly intentional' territory
In post 78, Black wrote:
I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip
Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either
i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.
My first thought upon seeing it was that it was in 'possibly intentional' territory
In post 78, Black wrote:
I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip
Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either
i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.
My first thought upon seeing it was that it was in 'possibly intentional' territory
In post 13, DragonEater70 wrote:
I just wanna say that Aureal is a freaking QUEEN for making this game
I mean my role is a freaking gladiator!
This pinged the fuck out of me. I typed up a reply with a vote but then thought I better check the vote count. Since he's E-2 already I'm holding off for now.
On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.
Do you think she's scum? If not, why the exclamation point? If yes, why do you disagree (?) with my case?
'Do you think X is scum' is more broad than a yes-or-no question. I think Black has pretty decent scum equity. Surely you get that, as the person who was talking all about the percentage odds of Black being scum earlier? My thoughts on Black aren't very solidified. I think Black is within both her ranges right now, from my perception.
The was because I also had Black/Dann as a pet theory in my head at the time. It was highly speculative and held little weight, which is why I was fine being really vague about it.
I just don't think the reasons you laid out for Black!scum really coincide with things that would make her scum. I don't disagree with the direction atm, and I don't feel like going into the details of your reasoning is that productive a use of my time and posts.
On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?
It's not that. You're tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and you're omgussy. Would give examples but I'm on my phone.
why didn’t you vote klick
...I quite like this actually
Huh???
I think Dannflor's perception of me is that I am also tossing out weak, rebuttable town reads and I'm omgussy. Which means it's odd that Claptastik didn't find me suspicious on those grounds.
What I meant is do you think Black has like, 30%, 50%, or 70% to be scum (as an example)?
RE exclam - okay makes sense, so you were basically mindmelding and wanted to point it out.
Last paragraph - sure. Then what do you scumread her for?
I don't like the percentage question on principle, but that's just me being an ass and I'll go with it. I'm at probably 40%ish scum on Black. That's not really due to much on Black's part at this point, as much as other players are just townier. Like I said in the last post, my thoughts on Black aren't well-defined and she's in the PoE largely based on not yet being towny.
In post 265, DragonEater70 wrote:
Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.
I thin you and Neko are the most likely to be town
I think there's one scum in Clap/Klick. Most likely Klick. Not sure if they are partnered but I'm worried about it. I'm not sure if partners would vote together like this
In post 271, Black wrote:
Dragon why is Klick your top townread?
After our conversation earlier about how you weren't sure how to read me, I'm far from convinced you have as strong feelings about me being scum as are conveyed in your recent posts
I find it more likely you're pushing this harder in direct response to the pressure on you
In post 221, NekoLover wrote:
Honestly my feeling is that you and black are both town and its just you two being extra picky over each other; the E-1 on page 2 seemed very random, and I have a feeling would've been hammered without much info if I didn't Unvote. I think sky is also another case of aggressive townie, my gut feeling right now is saying that titus and maybe klick is scum; Dannflor doesn't really rub off as scum but i haven't had the chance to really interact with them to be fair
In post 262, NekoLover wrote:
Yea considering everything I'm now starting to feel like black is scum
VOTE: Black
That should be black E-1
I'm having a hard time believing this progression. I don't think anything Clap said should convince anyone that I'm scum, and if you think Klick is likely scum then it makes me wonder why you decided to join the wagon he's on instead of questioning "hmm could this be a mislim?"
Honestly at this point I'm going mentally back and forth and I've realized I've dug myself into a very deep mental game I wasn't expecting
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Post #307 (isolation #38) » Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:22 am
Postby Klick »
In post 282, Black wrote:
I'm the type of player that doesn't respond well to pressure. I get focused on everyone's shitty scumreads on me and it derails the game and it's not fun for anyone
Somewhat same
I've been working on my responses to pressure, but my buttons can be pushed the wrong way
Like what the fuck is this? You don't want to sort me. You just want to be right about me so you can say "OoO I caught scum Black!!11!!"
I'M TOWN
If you're town I'm the wrong person to counter-push. I somewhat understand your concerns about my vote on you, but I feel that most of the votes on me have been just as lazy, and the difference is just that the vote is on you instead of me.
We're in similar spots if you're town. If that's the case then I think the scum are more likely to be in the quieter crowd.
In post 265, DragonEater70 wrote:
Black how about instead of admiring the coolness of the use of BBCode inside quotes, you give me a rundown of who do ypu actually TR right now and why? I'm specifically interested to know who you TR out of the people on your wagon.
I thin you and Neko are the most likely to be town
I think there's one scum in Clap/Klick. Most likely Klick. Not sure if they are partnered but I'm worried about it. I'm not sure if partners would vote together like this
In post 271, Black wrote:
Dragon why is Klick your top townread?
After our conversation earlier about how you weren't sure how to read me, I'm far from convinced you have as strong feelings about me being scum as are conveyed in your recent posts
I find it more likely you're pushing this harder in direct response to the pressure on you
Why are you assuming I have strong feelings about you being scum? I think you're the most likely to be scum here but that doesn't mean the feelings are strong. This just feels like shade. Town!you would more than likely ask me how strong my feelings are instead of just jumping to conclusions to make me look worse
Why are you assuming I think you have *strong* feelings about me being scum? I think the urgency you're conveying in your posts about the potential of me being scum is strong relative to how much evidence you seem to be working with.
...or we could avoid the semantic argument and talk about more important things.
I don't think your vote on me holds water. I think it's there because you're feeling defensive and want a plausible counterwagon. What I want to discern is whether that's town defensive or scum defensive.
If you're town, I want to get somewhere with you beyond vague baseline paranoia.
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Post #316 (isolation #41) » Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:32 am
Postby Klick »
In post 313, Black wrote:Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon
I agree with zero of the reasons but I don't think that means you're town
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Post #319 (isolation #42) » Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:36 am
Postby Klick »
In post 317, Black wrote:
Like I think town!Klick sees poor reasons being used to push someone and he questions them. Instead he is just blindly following them. It doesn't track with how I would expect Klick to sort here
This is an inaccurate read
I do not have patience to whack away at weeds
I will settle for a pretty garden
In post 313, Black wrote:Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon
I agree with zero of the reasons but I don't think that means you're town
???
So you see people casing me for like 10 reasons that you don't agree with and you have no reaction to it at all?
Yeah basically
I don't expect DragonEater or Claptastik or like most people to make cases that hold high accuracy
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Post #336 (isolation #44) » Sun Dec 17, 2023 5:44 am
Postby Klick »
In post 321, Dannflor wrote:
I think Black is more likely to be town right now. I dont have a lock read yet but im confident i can get a very confident read there given enough time
I have an extremely good record of reading Black and if people can find me as town it would be cool if people trusted that
Dragon I believe it’s obvious he wants to catch scum!black and will do so by tunneling her regardless of her alignment so he can say he caught her
UNVOTE:
I'll take this. I'm not really 100% here atm but I'm willing to have a look at what you mean with Clap later
In post 370, Claptastik wrote:
It's only an option if people like you let them get away with it.
You're implying here that you don't think it's normal for townies to change their reads as new developments happen, which is a really weird opinion to have
You wouldn't think this was a weird opinion to have if you were on the site 5ish years ago. Reads being fluid and subject to change easily and people just accepting that is a pretty recent update to our meta.
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Post #490 (isolation #51) » Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:14 am
Postby Klick »
Just got off work, I'm exhausted, I've skimmed everything and will give proper responses to the backlog when I'm more alive. But I'm alright to give front-of-the-mind thoughts
The topic I'm most interested in right now is the pressure from FakeGod on me for the Black E-1, and Kawaii's interest in it. If anyone wants to have a dialogue about that atm I'm present for it
In very brief: I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it. In the very early stages of the game I find that sort of stuff somewhat amusing. If people want to do crazy stuff early on, that's their prerogative. Ultimately there's stuff to read into that sort of play. The E-1 contributed to us progressing the thread in a healthy way.
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Post #493 (isolation #52) » Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:26 am
Postby Klick »
KawaiiKame posted something about my read on FakeGod not making sense to them
I acknowledge that FakeGod had some content in their ISO that looked like solving on the surface
My point was rather that the content itself felt forced, felt like it was driven by what FakeGod wanted to push into the thread rather than what FakeGod thought. It felt like the purpose of their posting was to look a certain way, as opposed to just solving. And that bothered me.
Their posting still feels this way to me, and it feels like more than just a playstyle issue.
@KawaiiKame: If you didn't get my reasoning on FakeGod, what did you think of Black seeing my reasoning and going 'oh yeah, I was thinking that as well'? I took that as validation that what I was seeing had tangibility, which is why I'm confused that you've not said anything about it
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Post #504 (isolation #55) » Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:54 am
Postby Klick »
In post 502, Skygazer wrote:
it's bugging me that black made no indication she knew about the gladiator thing until it was heavily hinted at, so maybe she is just scum here
I think Sky's mind is still here
because Sky actually cares about this
because Sky believes in the argument they were making
because Sky is town
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Post #505 (isolation #56) » Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:55 am
Postby Klick »
Like I think scum!Sky moves on from this when they realise that no one cares about it at the same level they do
It's no longer relevant in the thread narrative
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Post #585 (isolation #58) » Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:28 am
Postby Klick »
I feel like the reads in this game have splintered all over the place over the last few pages. It feels unnatural and is probably caused at least in part by scum