Open 897 - Cop 17er [DAY 6]

[Aristeia]

I like voting for yessiree on a reread

@meuh wdythink?

[Aristeia]

I think 1151 was what pinged me on scum!Titus

really weird pivot from her earlier exchange with Black into an ari vote, tone felt off too since she was suggesting both of them are scum together, so why did she feel the need to pivot?

VOTE: Titus

just like the good ol' days

specifically this feels like not a real thought process for why he decided to vote titus at this point if you read into the context of what's going on around his vote

[Aristeia]

why not Naerys again, for the really slow people in the room like myself

Naerys could be scum too,

I was just rereading yessiree's iso because he was the hot wagon of the day

[Aristeia]

what do you agree with

[Aristeia]

what do you agree with

that post 1151 was a weird post by Titus. I had initially written of as moonlogic titus, but now with hindsight it is odd and I think pointing it out makes sense as either alignment. Unless you think its TMIng but I am not seeing scum motivation pushing titus there....like even around the time maybe 1-2 votes just got put on Titus but I think i was center wagon?

ok but why did he push you instead of titus at 1157 if that post pinged him?

[Aristeia]

like i think a more plausible impetus for him voting titus at 1585 is that Black moved to Titus at 1576.

I get the feeling he noted titus post at 1151 but didnt want to push her for it but kind of just kept it in his pocket for when he wanted to change directions.

it's weird to me he didnt mention any of the posts in the previous two pages of 1585 because they're p relevant to the titus wagon

[Aristeia]

hmm mb im wrong he did say he liked scum titus at 1571 that i missed

[Aristeia]

i either decide to hold up this game day or just bend to the will of the game which is apathy and go for w/e else does

okay

VOTE: yessiree

sorry dude, don't even think ur really scum. Just want this day over and town needs meuh gone for them to stop using her as an excuse not to do anything.

[Hint Scum Team: If you kill Meuh that means lazy town have less excuses]

ahhh i dont want you to vote someone you dont think is mafia just because i said so >.<

[Aristeia]

he's voting for RCE tho

[Aristeia]

*head pats*

[Aristeia]

Noting that yess got resistance at E-2.

VOTE: RCE
I don't mind seeing what happens with this one.
I also think Furtive would be worth limming.

who was the resistance?

[Aristeia]

why you hate me

Yess is town.

I mean I love you man

But I hate you here

why is Yess town here?

[Aristeia]

looks like Meuh dropped off the face of the earth which is frustrating

we serve a fickle queen

[Aristeia]

i can be persuaded to switch to furtive i guess im like a willow in the wind atp >.>

[Aristeia]

what do you want to do theta

[Aristeia]

VOTE: furtive gl gl

[Aristeia]

Okay truly last sorting post of the day. I am going to watch anime. Peace yall

did you enjoy your anime fire

[Aristeia]

frieren episode 17 i saw yesterday though was pretty good

I think I am only up to like episode 12 that show is so good gn

[Aristeia]

Ugh, I hate that a) I feel like that kill framed Dave and b) I just wanna vote yessiree again.

These are both level zero takes.

why would the kill frame Dave/You ?

I thought Gamma thought Yess/RCE was mafia and she was pushing Yess p hard at end of yesterday

thoughts after page 32

ride or die: Gamma, Meuh, uP, John Wayne, enchant, Drew
in the back seat: theta, FB
check your rear-view mirror: dave, Bella, Ari
hit the brakes: furtive, Naerys
crashing and burning: Yess, RCE

HURT: yessiree, RCEnigma
HEAL: firebringer

VOTE: yessiree

thoughts after page 32

ride or die: Gamma, Meuh, uP, John Wayne, enchant, Drew
in the back seat: theta, FB
check your rear-view mirror: dave, Bella, Ari
hit the brakes: furtive, Naerys
crashing and burning: Yess, RCE

HURT: yessiree, RCEnigma
HEAL: firebringer

VOTE: yessiree

[Aristeia]

to get into my yess read a bit;

I think his initial reaction to the Queen's Court thing was pretty bad, and when I look at it thru the lens of locking Black as town, it definitely feels like scum trying to discredit a town block that might be viable. The OG members were Hu Tao (another locktown), DE (flipped town) and Bella (not a solid TR but if yess flips scum, gains substantial town equity).
Another thing I liked less once I townlocked a slot that was involved was yess pushing me for my interactions with python.
yess 501 just does not vibe well with me post-Dragon flip. I think Dragon hits the nail on the head in 523.
Page 24 is probably where I felt the most okay with yess' posting
post 767 doesn't really sit well with me, I feel like the playstyle yess is leaning into is a scum one. There is also a thread in my mind where kyouko mentions someone goading me but only really points out yess; I think this could come from kyouko being more mindful of how her scum buddy is playing.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: yessiree

mb its like 200 IQ scum framing but like maybe its not i dunno

[Aristeia]

Considering we've had like....three lots of resistance to the yes wagon, that's where I'd focus

who are you talking about?

[Aristeia]

Why does scum have to wait for a townie to towncase their partner/start a counterwagon on someone scummier when they can just do it themselves

because tagging along a townie started counterwagon is easier than convincing a townie to support a counterwagon that you started yourself

[Aristeia]

Instead i get a conspiracy cabal of scum are creating the resistance to stop the wagon on yessiree. Therefore he is also scum.

I think the bigger issue isn't that she's saying he's mafia because of resistance to the wagon, she's pointing to the resistance being an issue without knowing what his flip is yet

[Aristeia]

Instead i get a conspiracy cabal of scum are creating the resistance to stop the wagon on yessiree. Therefore he is also scum.

I think the bigger issue isn't that she's saying he's mafia because of resistance to the wagon, she's pointing to the resistance being an issue without knowing what his flip is yet

I'm literally pointing out something that I feel is noteworthy.

If the implication here is I know what his flip would be, why would I be even saying things?

well it would be a perspective slip so it wouldnt be intentional

[Aristeia]

Again, Ari, why tho?

@fb, the fact that we've counted wagonned town suggests it's a bigger benefit to scum tho.

why what?

[Aristeia]

I guess the scum team could just be Yessiree+Davesaz+LemonKitty and they've decided to lolcat and hope we randomly lim townies for them

[Aristeia]

I guess the scum team could just be Yessiree+Davesaz+LemonKitty and they've decided to lolcat and hope we randomly lim townies for them

several things atrocious about this post
1) factually false statement about me and dave who have done plenty of solving, and naerys to a lesser extent
2) grouping 3 easy targets to be pushed since we're all under varying levels of suspicion from the previous day without providing any analysis into why we might be partnered
3) spreading the narrative that town would randomly lim townies because ???

your preemptive attempt to discredit the analysis dave and I have been working on and about to drop is noted too

pedit: ninja'd

(1) you all feel directionless
(2) why does this even matter
(3) because thats what we did yesterday

[Aristeia]

i mean if it was really just a lolcat team it would be enchant+davesaz+lemonkitty

behind all the joke posts, there is an attempt by yessiree in the background. Its just clouded by all the joke posts.

I guess I struggle to see why a scumteam without yessiree doesnt just shoot meuh and let gamma wake up today and continue her yessiree push

[Aristeia]

i mean if it was really just a lolcat team it would be enchant+davesaz+lemonkitty

behind all the joke posts, there is an attempt by yessiree in the background. Its just clouded by all the joke posts.

I guess I struggle to see why a scumteam without yessiree doesnt just shoot meuh and let gamma wake up today and continue her yessiree push

I mean i wouldn't have killed Meuh either. Why won't you suspect me!

I'm pretty bad at figuring out if someone bussed tbh

[Aristeia]

I guess I just don't expect you to case Titus the way you do if you're mafia with her

[Aristeia]

also the way you pushed RCE as soon as day started based on the whole investigation thing where you felt insulted you didn't get NK'd doesn't feel like a scum train of thought

I guess you could just have me very pocketed but it is what it is

[Aristeia]

1) ok directionless is more accurate, but is it a good indicator of scum? it could just mean a lack of clear scumreads and that often happens to townies too
2) cause you're clearly accusing us of being a team here, so looking for partner equity is a natural way to reinforce or dismiss this assessment?
3) i dont see how that is related to ur read on the 3 of us cause that is applied to the gamestate in a more general sense

it feels like you're more interested in debate than finding mafia

[Aristeia]

i will help you fire

VOTE: dave

[Aristeia]

thats a lot of words for some badly diguised omgus lol

[Aristeia]

ok frick u guys u keep interrupting me, I'll just post my town case on RCEnigma for now

- engages in discussions about voting patterns and reasoning behind votes - this trait should be null but there is enough analysis-to-appearing active ratio that it's more town!AI
- pays attention of player interactions and notes shifts in dynamics - this is town!ai and he attempts to replicate this as scum. As town the reasoning behind this tends to be more focused on finding scum, whereas scum he just does this for the sake of doing it
- as town he tends to be engaged with a wider range of the playerlist and pushes for scum with a more assertive mindset

- pressed Gamma early on 330, later adjusts this stance noting her astute observations on the gamestate 1814, and then changes this to a confident TR 3129, 3197.
- pushed DE early on, 698, 703, and later changed to a townreading 2652
- pushed heavily on furtive, with the case in 3597. Ignoring the accuracy of this read, I'd like to look more into the basis of his reasoning, particularly citing the lack of participation on furtive' part, and looking at furt's lack of interactions with Titus/kyouko. This is consistent with his tendency to focus on player interactions.
- critical of python's reads early on, noting a lack of depth. Some examples 445, 449, 455, 460
- engaged Firebringer on his assessment of the Titus wagon containing scum, firebringer's own scum range, and certain interpretation of dynamics with ari 2698, 2773, 3832
- engaged dave, seeking clarification and reasoning on certain reads and votes. Examples 3129, 3130, 3753

worth noting that these progressions on players is not a basis to townread him but rather these are examples to show he is focused on finding scum and engaged with the broader playerlist, that he is coming from a solvy mindset rather than posting to appear active. He is capable of being highly engaged and appear analytical but there tends not be much analysis which is not the case this game

like when did you even "think" all of this?

[Aristeia]

I feel like Ari is scum reading me? Tbf I'm staring to think ari is just scum.

i struggle to think anyone reads that pile of contrived word vomit that yessiree just posted and thinks "wow how convincing! maybe ari is just mafia"

his thought process is not even remotely believable to me tbh.

[Aristeia]

i guess you could maybe be town and believe yessiree but ill be honest if you're town here i dont really care because you're not where i'd want to elim anyway and i don't think its likely i convince you I'm town so it'd be a waste of time on that front as well.

[Aristeia]

These are the players she has no clear reads on. If she flips scum this would be a GOLD MINE to look for the remaining scum.

I'll even entertain this summary sentence

what gold mine are you even talking about?

if I flip mafia who are the partners?

[Aristeia]

Titus/kyouko - had kyouko as nulltown in 844, and changed to "quite like her" on a reread in 847, in 1451 expressed confusion when Gamme was pushing kyouko and tagging Theta. Once Titus replaced kyouko, voted Titus without a clear reason while having no interactions with her throughout the wagon phase. She noted Hu Tao jumping off Titus to wagon python, and hard sheeped fb's case on Titus when it was dropped, noted dragon TMIing a titus townflip, wagoned DE for info
"if you're town and titus is mafia then the mafia who are bussing her are too cowardly to try to push you over when the oppurtunity arose", put Titus back to e-2, later held the stance that mafia full bussed Titus

The quarrel with python felt performative. Felt like it was overblown over a comment that was pretty innocuous. Granted she did get wagoned, but the followup vote and scumread on python when python jumped on her wagon seemed artificial with no real conviction that it was scum!python pushing her, felt more like an intimidation tactic to deter them from ever being critical of her again. I do not know 100% if this is really AI tho, but my read is not only based on this either way.

Her progression around kyouko/Titus could be significant though. From townreading kyouko to scumreading Titus within the span of couple irl days without anything big happening during that period feels like a mental disconnect and not a natural progression. Especially when she pretty much full backed a Titus lim when FB presented his case without ever adding her own thoughts on Titus specifically. This shift in progression without any clear indication of why it happened feels more like scum decided to bus Titus. Her having the stance that mafia full bussed Titus but Firebringer is obvtown for hard pushing Titus is contradictory, but she maintained this stance since it conveniently aligned with her goal of continue to push that RCE, dave, and yess are scum who bussed Titus, and this also aligns with her overall game plan of maintaining scumreads on those slots and buddying up her townreads to encourage them to push those slots.

this is pretty easy to explain and if you had questions about my titus/kyouko progression you could simply ask instead of randomly pulling it out to claim its scum indicative when you need to.

I just played with Titus!mafia in a large theme viewtopic.php?t=91436 - her being afk is pretty familiar to me, I don't have much experiences with kyouko. I thought firebringer's case about titus's approach to him was very compelling when I read it so I was fine with voting her.

the issue with this "case" on me is you feel like you have been holding onto it to use now when you are desperate and cornered rather than this being an organic thought you actually hold. the timing is wrong for genuine suspicion from town!you. If you actually had issue with my titus/kyouko progression the time to sort me/bring it up would've been when it happened and not now - so it feels pretty motivated by who I'm pushing in thread rather than a real suspicion that I'm mafia.

[Aristeia]

That's not what's happening? I find us talking to each other frustrating because you seem to include stuff that isn't there and I can't work out if it's agenda based or real. The fact I can't tell how you read me feels concerning but I don't know if it's a problem you want to fix. I feel like you've made a few 'pop shots ' at me in your questions but then not much follow up.

well if yessiree flips mafia would you believe he posted a 5000 word novel about me being mafia for fun when he's my partner?

[Aristeia]

Frankly, Ari you are being a bit unreasonable tbh.

I know I'm an unreasonable person, you don't have to tell me.

[Aristeia]

im talking about the towncase he made on whoever cant remember the name*

I'm saying that the "towncase" makes no sense for town!yessiree to post about RCE today because RCE is not under pressure today.

yesterday RCE got pressured to e-1 and almost died, so if Yessiree had all these thoughts about RCE being town, he should've posted it then to keep RCE alive if he's town.

today RCE has 0 pressure on the slot so what's the motivation to post a wall case on RCE?

if you're town who has all these thoughts about another slot being town, the incentive is to post the thoughts when there's actual danger of RCE being eliminated to keep RCE from being eliminated.

[Aristeia]

That doesn't help me talk to you.

And rce

my point is that I think most reasonable people would read what yessiree posted, decide its desperate scum drivel and yeet the slot clean off the face of the earth at some point.

then you can try to read my alignment with the knowledge that yessiree has flipped mafia and as one of his last desperate acts decided to post some 7000 word manifesto about ari being mafia with all sorts of contrived and unbelievable logic.

at that point you should be able to figure out that i'm town.

if yessiree is actually town and believes all the nonsense he's posted I guess we deserve to lose it is what it is.

[Aristeia]

im talking about the towncase he made on whoever cant remember the name*

I'm saying that the "towncase" makes no sense for town!yessiree to post about RCE today because RCE is not under pressure today.

yesterday RCE got pressured to e-1 and almost died, so if Yessiree had all these thoughts about RCE being town, he should've posted it then to keep RCE alive if he's town.

today RCE has 0 pressure on the slot so what's the motivation to post a wall case on RCE?

if you're town who has all these thoughts about another slot being town, the incentive is to post the thoughts when there's actual danger of RCE being eliminated to keep RCE from being eliminated.

did yessire put pressure on RCE yesterday? If so that is a massive redflag

i dont even remember but honestly it doesnt matter to me because if he's town he should've posted it yesterday when RCE got run up and not today. it makes very little sense for him to hold it to today and post it today.

[Aristeia]

Ok, but if yessiree flips town then a) we are down a down and b) I still can't read you!

if yessiree is town we probly lose this game lol

[Aristeia]

gathered data past couple days and today I sat down at work and did all this

i'm glad before userPython asked you to gigadive people you were simply not reading them at all!

[Aristeia]

that changed today when you suddenly started to have an agenda to push and i changed my mind on you after a deep dived

it's called having some fluidity in reads and being critical of ur own reads, you should try that as scum some time

you mean you were fine with me when I was pushing RCE for you yesterday but now that I'm pushing you you gotta fight back since self preservation

very cool naked omgus doesnt show scum motivation at all for sure mmhmmm mhmmm

[Aristeia]

[post]number[ /post]

[Aristeia]

gathered data past couple days and today I sat down at work and did all this

i'm glad before userPython asked you to gigadive people you were simply not reading them at all!

that's not true, i gave out my full readlist yesterday as well and did plenty of sorting on people that were off Titus wagon, but keep discrediting my

i was just using 11% of my power

but today i went giga mode and used 13% of my power to cover for the absence of python

i'm glad that extra 2% is such a huge increase if you went to 20% I'm sure we'd all be blown away and wouldn't be able to handle it

[Aristeia]

maybe if you went to like 14% you might actually vote me instead of being so shy about it

[Aristeia]

that changed today when you suddenly started to have an agenda to push and i changed my mind on you after a deep dived

it's called having some fluidity in reads and being critical of ur own reads, you should try that as scum some time

you mean you were fine with me when I was pushing RCE for you yesterday but now that I'm pushing you you gotta fight back since self preservation

very cool naked omgus doesnt show scum motivation at all for sure mmhmmm mhmmm

because I'm townreading naerys and davesaz, so from my pov you're pushing town, but you're doing it while hiding behind Gamma's flip

so you tell me what SHOULD a townie be doing in this scenario? shut up and let you drive the mislim on everyone?

and if you actually read my case i don't purely focus on ur shift in behavior today; it's only one facet of the read

I already told you. If you were actually town you would've posted that wallcase about RCE being town yesterday instead of pulling it out today.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: RCEniga

e-1 btw

^ this is you on RCE yesterday when RCE is under threat of being limmed

ok frick u guys u keep interrupting me, I'll just post my town case on RCEnigma for now

- engages in discussions about voting patterns and reasoning behind votes - this trait should be null but there is enough analysis-to-appearing active ratio that it's more town!AI
- pays attention of player interactions and notes shifts in dynamics - this is town!ai and he attempts to replicate this as scum. As town the reasoning behind this tends to be more focused on finding scum, whereas scum he just does this for the sake of doing it
- as town he tends to be engaged with a wider range of the playerlist and pushes for scum with a more assertive mindset

- pressed Gamma early on 330, later adjusts this stance noting her astute observations on the gamestate 1814, and then changes this to a confident TR 3129, 3197.
- pushed DE early on, 698, 703, and later changed to a townreading 2652
- pushed heavily on furtive, with the case in 3597. Ignoring the accuracy of this read, I'd like to look more into the basis of his reasoning, particularly citing the lack of participation on furtive' part, and looking at furt's lack of interactions with Titus/kyouko. This is consistent with his tendency to focus on player interactions.
- critical of python's reads early on, noting a lack of depth. Some examples 445, 449, 455, 460
- engaged Firebringer on his assessment of the Titus wagon containing scum, firebringer's own scum range, and certain interpretation of dynamics with ari 2698, 2773, 3832
- engaged dave, seeking clarification and reasoning on certain reads and votes. Examples 3129, 3130, 3753

worth noting that these progressions on players is not a basis to townread him but rather these are examples to show he is focused on finding scum and engaged with the broader playerlist, that he is coming from a solvy mindset rather than posting to appear active. He is capable of being highly engaged and appear analytical but there tends not be much analysis which is not the case this game

^ this is you on RCE today after UP asks you to "gigadive" RCE.


It makes no sense to me that you care more about reading into RCE's alignment today as a homework assignment for UP than when you're E-1ing RCE yesterday - like did you even have thoughts about him when you voted for him E-1 yesterday?

I don't think it's a town thought process at all. Feels more like scum doing homework and based on what they need to happen rather than an actual thought process.

[Aristeia]

I think your motivation at this point is to try to suffocate the thread with some inane argument because you enjoy "debate" so I'm going to stop responding to you.

have a good day

[Aristeia]

Like lets think logical here, Why does a wolf!yessire help push a Wagon on said person and then the next day towncase him when he was asked to deepdive the person?

because he wants RCE to vote with him

[Aristeia]

can people stop openwolfing its distracting

[Aristeia]

can people stop openwolfing its distracting

How is poking holes in your points against someone openwolfing?

awoooo

[Aristeia]

That's not about what you doing, that's about how and why, really.

How? By thinking and typing

Why? Because I think the guy is getting dogpiles by wolves. I know im town, and seeing how everyone is just ready to kill him when we have so much time left is just a redflag overall

he got two votes on him

i have trouble believing your perspective because its so disconnected from reality that I can't imagine you actually believe it

[Aristeia]

I guess if you count me as willing to vote for yessiree that's three votes out of thirteen

which is not very much

[Aristeia]

Everyone ive seen type in this thread via live interaction are all in favor of him getting voted. But hey maybe theres a diamond in the dirt that doesn't want to kill him right away. I couldn't tell you

so why can't that be because he's mafia

[Aristeia]

you have zero votes on you but you went and flipped out and thought we were somehow gonna lose because i dropped a scum case on you?

what r u even talking about

[Aristeia]

actually I take that back. I don't want to listen to your nonsense you love debating and making things up

[Aristeia]

Furtive was more findable as town there than like half the PL

maybe you should show up and play the game you signed up for instead of complaining after the fact

[Aristeia]

Furtive was more findable as town there than like half the PL

maybe you should show up and play the game you signed up for instead of complaining after the fact

I'm sorry that I was sleeping during the flashwagon

you can read your own iso at the end of yesterday and tell me if you really did your best to push whatever lim you wanted or if you just didnt care.

i am just trying my best and I wish you would care enough to show up

[Aristeia]

i guess i lied I dont really think i'm trying my best and I probably won't care that much but I do want you to care a bit more because you have a p important voice

[Aristeia]

I don't think Meuh voice is all that important

To give one caveat the only reason Meuh voice is important is because we have had a lot of people want to delegate responsibility to her.

Which I think is either lazy or scummy.
I haven't really gone into each one because I think I can find laziness in it all and it becomes NAI to me.

laziness is contagious

if the conftown is slacking off everyone ends up slacking off too and then we might as well just be all waiting to die

[Aristeia]

I am so angry now.

she should've at least dropped her scumcase on you before noping out of the game tbh

[Aristeia]

because I believe town who play badly deserve to lose the game

[Aristeia]

the point i'm making to bella is that if you're town then we will probably just lose this game so I'm not going to care about convincing her that I'm town

[Aristeia]

im never giving firebringers sanity back

[Aristeia]

eh probably not

why not?

What's the theta case?

he saw her in the scum pt with him

[Aristeia]

the hold steady was kind of very town?

starting to doubt u read the game

the best timeline is if meuh was mafia all along and we're just being slowly tortured via water drip

[Aristeia]

Ths scum read gob and Ari, huh

Bella I need more words than this

[Aristeia]

mafia should let dannflor live to elo just so we will never know

[Aristeia]

if we lim dann thats surrendering to terrorism i will never do it

[Aristeia]

Are you seriously considering the cop misclaimed a n0 inno?

the thought has crossed my mind more than once but I am willing to lose to it because it would be pretty funny

[Aristeia]

ari what is your read on the game

its slow and boring and i can't tell the difference between town who've stopped playing and mafia who've stopped playing

its excruciatingly painful to play

the lone bright spots are when firebringer makes some joke here and there.

[Aristeia]

I guess I feel like I'm just going along with the people who are actually playing without really considering if they could be mafia in control of the game state because if they were it would be incredibly difficult to rally the apathetic townsfolk to defeat them and I am not really willing to put that kind of effort into the game

[Aristeia]

like i'm fine with yeeting Yessiree because its the last thing gamma wanted and she seemed like she really cared

and I'm fine with helping firebringer yeet Davesaz because he sounds like he really cares and he caught titus d1 and he's funny and he makes me laugh

and I guess I'd be willing to help UserPython at some point in the game later but I helped them with furtive yesterday and that didn't go well so shrug.

Yes I know UserPython wants to yeet Yessiree and that conflicts with point 1 but Firebringer sounds really sure YEssiree is town for some reason and Dave is mafia so its whatever to me.

Furthermore I think if Yessiree is mafia and Dave is town then he doesnt spend like an hour writing up that ridiculous post about me/rce cuz he's kind of lazy and its easy for him to just sheep on dave so I don't really feel any incentive to vote there yet.

[Aristeia]

are you going to try to catch the other three mafia at some point too

[Aristeia]

Do you know what's weird? Dave said the same thing about the rce wagon and you didn't comment on that.

I'm not even saying he's 'got to be scum ' or conf biasing: I was actually fairly open to him being closer to his town meta. But his end of day was bad and the fact that there is resistance is interesting, if nothing else. Both him and rce the other wagons have popped up: I've forgotten the order the wagons happened in but wagonging dragon (town) and python (my top tr yesterday) and then furtive being the elim yesterday is noteworthy, at least?

It's weird that you wanna shut this down and just trash me. I'm not the one having an un- nuanced take.

im not trying to trash u bella. I just think ur tunneling on yessiree has become annoying so i am venting.

Also ur right davesaz mentioning that on RCE is also bad. I am voting davesaz and my chief reason is I don't think his hunting is real. I think he is hiding behind vague statements about voting progression and to ur point now "resistance". Without fleshing out what is going on in an actual way to make out who he believes is scum. Just vague enough to where he can make a push on anyone without having to commit to anything.

So yeah u should join me on dave

strike my last post u aren't completely taking me in good faith here. I just think if u scumread me or think im possible scum ur definitely not interacting with me in a way that suggests so.

U look more like mildly annoyed scum. I guess if im being ultra good faith, semi-patient town.

why aren't u trying to sort me in this conversation.
U had me as scum before, why can't i be scum pushing u.

ur taking me in good faith here in a weird way.
Like you told me yesterday you scumread me.
Am I town now?

What changed davesaz
walk me through your eyes

the only attempts at solving from davesaz i believed were solving were with furtive and it really didn't go anywhere with him. He asked some pointed questions to furtive, seemed like he was trying to sort him. Then no follow up or fall through. It just evaporated.

I feel the same way about how he treats me. One minute I am scum, one minute he is unsure and needs VCA. Its not even about consistency, I need to follow something of how your reads develop or change.

[Aristeia]

im not saying i won't vote lemon here dannflor but can you engage in my davesaz case a bit

and thank you ari for quoting it
ur the best scum pal a growlithe can ask for

thanks if you're actually mafia pocketing me you are doing a good job and I am enjoying this ride

[Aristeia]

oh I thought your case on dave was that he perspective slipped when he was talking to you and forgot to treat you like a suspect

[Aristeia]

i don't think ari and bella are being lazy right now and totally fine with them winning this as scum

I don't think Bella's done enough work for me to be happy with losing to her as mafia but the bar is literally on the floor atp

[Aristeia]

naerys is really scummy but I felt some moments from lemon that I thought were townie

that comment about gob being scummy felt like it was a town epiphany

[Aristeia]

maybe its because I think the cat profile picture is cute

[Aristeia]

Is Dave being pointlessly knobbish ai for him?

bella do you have anyone you want to flip atp

[Aristeia]

ok but if you had to just pick one which one would you want and why

[Aristeia]

like it just feels like you're spinning your wheels atp and its confusing to me cuz we've been playing d3 for a week and gotten p much nowhere so I dunno why you feel so apprehensive with your vote

[Aristeia]

ok why do you want to flip enchant

[Aristeia]

Mueh, ht, Ari and gamma voted for nearys on some pretty bad reasoning. Considering that's confirmed town and flipped town, I'd eat my hat if one of Ari/the ht slot wasn't scum.

this makes no sense to me why cant 4 town vote for naerys

[Aristeia]

VOTE: naerys

i guess i can sheep meuh for a day

When a vote looks like this it doesn't exactly scream town.

ok if you think i'm mafia can you vote me

[Aristeia]

r u just trolling

[Aristeia]

like what are your thoughts

we're not asking you for a 50 page phd thesis

what are your thoughts on his alignment right now at this moment in time

what are they?

what do you think about him?

its not a hard question

you keep waffling back and forth and saying oh no hes got 4 pages of posts thats too many

no we're asking you what you think about him right now based on how he's sorting you

what do you actually think

[Aristeia]

what are you trying to teach us

[Aristeia]

Because the case was bullshit, Ari, frankly. Do you disagree?

i dont even know what case you're talking about

[Aristeia]

i will be so annoyed if davesaz is town

like beyond tilted

i just dont understand how you can be this way

[Aristeia]

ok maybe thats just how you play

i dont know i have never played with you

[Aristeia]

do you have a person you think is mafia dave

[Aristeia]

Youbare telling me that scum get the chance to sheep conf!town onto lhf that other people had fairly low down their reads list and every one of them said nah, not today?

bella i really have no idea what your point is maybe its because im dumb can you please use more words to spell out your thoughts

[Aristeia]

I just posted about two votes that are questionable, but it isn't enough to decide. It's like a game of clue, where I haven't seen enough cards to know the answer yet.
I don't play as a social game, other than certain people like Titus and Gamma who are fairly predictable to me since I know the social pattern. Mostly I play as a logic game.

who is mafia according to your logic game and why

[Aristeia]

I just posted about two votes that are questionable, but it isn't enough to decide. It's like a game of clue, where

I haven't seen enough cards to know the answer yet

.
I don't play as a social game, other than certain people like Titus and Gamma who are fairly predictable to me since I know the social pattern. Mostly I play as a logic game.

who is mafia according to your logic game and why

I have said this so many times my fingers hurt.

can you say it one more time and vote for that person

[Aristeia]

About the flash wagon on nearys. It was bad.

I need more words

who is bad

which flash wagon

[Aristeia]

can you say it one more time and vote for that person

he is saying he doesn't have anyone.

I have put on my schoolgirl skirt and I'm asking the professor because I am slow

[Aristeia]

i dont know what case you are talking about or when can you please just use a post number

[Aristeia]

Naerys has 142 posts??????

It starts here, then a few more posts in her iso, and then down come the votes.

Also, both you and Dave have....forgotten voting your SRS?

i honestly do not understand your point

[Aristeia]

Meuh made a pretty bad case on nearys.

Mueh, you, gamma and hu tao voted for her basically in reaction.

I don't think four town and no scum look at the shit case and vote.

Considering one of the four is conf town and the other is flipped town, I'd really struggle to see that scum wouldn't jump on the opportunity to get an elim through (I will check who was actually being wagoned at the time as well)

Thereofor, I feel more Sus of you and Hu. Considering I was fine voting for both of you anyway, I may be conf!biased but I think the flash wagon is at least worth discussing.

(1) you're assuming that Naerys is town. You don't know if Naerys is town so you don't know this about that wagon. Your assumption is very questionable to me. You're relying on Naerys being town to make a number of assumptions about how scum/town play in that game state that don't really hold up.

(2) even if we were to assume Naerys is town, which is the only way this is a bad wagon on a player - your second assumption is that mafia will hop on to a wagon to take advantage of the conftown pushing a town player.

This is wrong because the mafia

know

Naerys is town - while the town do not. Mafia do not have a motivation to push town in this stagnant state because they don't want to

look bad

they usually would rather sit wherever they are and let

town

push the mislim over the edge because they know when Naerys flips, it will look bad for the people who voted for her.

Secondly the incentive only makes sense in a world state where mafia were going to be eliminated to begin with - if there's no risk that a mafia is under threat, they don't have an incentive to take an active part in pushing a mislim over the edge - their usual preference

I feel like you are taking a specific screenshot in time to create a narrative that depends on a number of assumptions to even make sense.

lastly what's your goal at this point? do you just want to flip this slot that has no player and you feel reasonably sure that it is a mafia slot?

[Aristeia]

Meuh made a pretty bad case on nearys.

Mueh, you, gamma and hu tao voted for her basically in reaction.

I don't think four town and no scum look at the shit case and vote.

Considering one of the four is conf town and the other is flipped town, I'd really struggle to see that scum wouldn't jump on the opportunity to get an elim through (I will check who was actually being wagoned at the time as well)

the thing that really bothers me is that you are saying two things

(1) four town and no scum look at a shit case and vote.


for one thing gamma is flipped town, looked at meuh's case and voted so we know at least one town voted after reading the "shit case" as you put it.

the second part is whether the other two players are town as well which is a ??? wagonomics reasoning.

you also state you don't think scum would look at a "shit case" and

not

vote for it.

and it's just really strange logic to me.

Town do not

know

if a case is shit or not because town do not know who the mafia are.

the only people who do know if a case/push is on town/scum are the

mafia

so in the world where Naerys is town and Meuh's case is indeed

shit

as you call it, the only people who would know that are the mafia and not the town and you're saying that the Town wouldn't vote for a shit case but the mafia would and that's just ??? to me.

a reasonable town mentality in this game state is "I'm bored and nothing is going on I'm willing to try whatever might work, hey the conftown is voting for this let's sheep her"

and a reasonable mafia mentality is "well they're going to sheep the conftown on a bad case on some town player, maybe itll look bad if i shamelessly sheep, why dont I just not do anything"

you've directly hopped to mafia want to push this mislim because meuh is leading it therefore one of those who hopped on must be mafia while town should be able to accurately evaluate the case as shit and naerys as town???

[Aristeia]

John probably does flip mafia i am just laughing my ass of how silly this game is.

I thought hu tao looked kinda townie back when she was playing but I have p low confidence in that read

[Aristeia]

and like honestly I don't even think Meuh's case was that bad

[Aristeia]

i thought hua toa was town too. But John performance doesn't inspire confidence in that early read

the vibe i get on skimming john wayne is that its a relative newbie who replaced in and never really got the hang of the game and then ghosted so I dunno how you're reading anything alignment indicative into his posting.

[Aristeia]

well at least it makes me think we're on the right path with dave cuz i dont think they do this if dave is town

[Aristeia]

not anti-spewing for a week?

[Aristeia]

i'm not sure I'm motivated enough to read dave's meta if he's being truthful that he's just always like this

[Aristeia]

dann said something about dave just always being like this I guess i'm going to be lazy and just assume he's right

[Aristeia]

Ari, that's an awful lot of words to exceptionally miss the point.

The thing I don't like about the case is that it lacks depth and everyone was... fine with that?

In fact, I think I'm the only person who went on the ask ney about her meta, her experience with Titus, etc., and it was her responses to that that made me doubt my sr: she wasnt trying to convince me of her take, even when I flat out disagreed with what she was saying about Titus's recent scum game - it felt like she was just stating her truth.

So of course the votes on look more opportunistic. Town, to Me, want to understand what's going on. It's what I'm not seeing in our interactions - you don't want to understand, you just wanna argue. You did the same to yessiree.


When I made my points about yess, although he started off being really 'wtf is this ' he later came back to 'meh, it's bad but I can why town would see this and think what Bella's thinking ' that thought process of 'can I see why someone would do that'. It's what I try to do as town so I tr it more naturally.

i dont care about depth of a case i care about voting out mafia

[Aristeia]

i do understand your case and i have explained in detail why it is wrong.

[Aristeia]

like i am explaining to you my viewpoint on why the conclusions you draw are wrong and how i believe mafia play in that game state and the reasons why mafia play that way.

maybe im wrong and you're right and john wayne is mafia

maybe you're mafia who is making things up.

i do not know either way i am uninformed.

so the best i can do is explain to you my perspective as to why i disagree with you and your conclusions.

im not really sure what more you expect from me here.

[Aristeia]

hey ari can you tell me how to vote people?

VOTE: name[/v <close this bracket.

[Aristeia]

[vote name

close the bracket

[Aristeia]

lol

[Aristeia]

I expect you to go 'hey, it's not unreasonable that Bella thinks that four people flash wagonning someone without any apparent critical thought or engagement is a bit sus'.

It's not about being informed. This is what I said earlier to you: you keep adding in random stuff that feels really agenda led that isn't anything to do with the conversation. It stresses me out because I can't tell if you are mafia madly deflecting, or just blinkered town, or just massively defensive for??

It feels like it did with yessiree, that anything that looks like vaguely critical of you, you just kick off about. It's just a normal part of mafia and also the process of sorting people.

i would have the exact same reaction to your case if i was not one of the four people in the "sus flashwagon" as you put it.

i dont like the narrative at all.

[Aristeia]

like saying i havent been trying to sort of interact with naerys is just ??? to me

[Aristeia]

VOTE: lemon tangerine

[Aristeia]

who am i tunneled on

[Aristeia]

its confusing to me because I think I've been going from yessiree to dave to bella to you now so I don't even know who you think I'm tunneling on

[Aristeia]

its confusing to me because I think I've been going from yessiree to dave to bella to you now so I don't even know who you think I'm tunneling on

last i checked you were tunneled on yessiree whos been looking at other votes, or am i reading the game wrong?

Last i remember you were going to ride or die on the yessire wagon

I have been voting davesaz for most of the day

[Aristeia]

its confusing to me because I think I've been going from yessiree to dave to bella to you now so I don't even know who you think I'm tunneling on

last i checked you were tunneled on yessiree whos been looking at other votes, or am i reading the game wrong?

Last i remember you were going to ride or die on the yessire wagon

I have been voting davesaz for most of the day

if thats true, in my defense i havent been reading what i missed. Only live interactions

i was not voting him then either

[Aristeia]

i still think naerys/lemon are only scum if yess is scum

why

[Aristeia]

oh you do remind me of achromatic haha

[Aristeia]

I guess we're all just too stupid to figure it out how terrible you are stuck playing with us

[Aristeia]

its really toxic because its how they play on MU they just all repeat over and over again how they are obviously town

[Aristeia]

is this the part where you teach us how to read you with logic

[Aristeia]

its selfmeta so take it with a grain of salt :shrug:

thanks i was about to just take you at your word since I didn't know you could lie about self meta.

[Aristeia]

is this the part where you teach us how to read you with logic

Ive explained before hand how me as wolf just doesnt really make sense but since it does come from me then yeah not really a point that will be heard.

i just don't see myself in a worlf where im mafia and i decide to shield a guy the person before me was scumming? and im not exactly w/w with yessire either from naerys

why wouldnt wolf you shield town yessiree

[Aristeia]

to make yourself look good if he gets flipped

or to make him like you since you're defending him

[Aristeia]

if your wolf game is so one dimensional that you would never defend a townie idk what to say about that other than maybe you dont have enough skill to be as insulting as you are.

[Aristeia]

you should read the game

[Aristeia]

i don't know

[Aristeia]

i mean i do think lemon could be scum with yess
but only with yess

and the reasons i have seen people scum reading naerys for are really bad

the issue i have with the yess - naerys/lemon scum pairing is that I found the lemon defense of yessir to be very overblown I think RCE explains it in this post here;

Tangerine I think you’re tmi’ing yessir here.

I have been hard defending yessir for 2 days straight. But I have been having SERIOUS doubt since there is a fair bit of circumstantial evidence pointing towards yessir being scum.

At this point I’m holding out because I want to be right about yessir.

So if I, as yessir’s biggest supporter, am standing on a shaky foundation then it makes me scratch my head on how you can be this confident on them being town.

and the way Lemon uses it to "self meta" himself as "definitely town because he's defending yessiree" just feels like that's the reason he did it to begin with

[Aristeia]

like lemon can be telling the truth about his meta that he has

never

before actually defended town as scum

and this could in fact be the first time he's trying to do it - which explains why his white-knighting looks so bad and poorly done - he has no experience actually whiteknighting a townie so he comes off as extremely fake when he does it.

[Aristeia]

also the entire conversation with me where I'm ripping into him for self metaing and he's trying to convince me to believe in his "self-meta" and "find him as town" felt like he had completely forgotten that he was scumreading/voting me as being scum for sure or whatever he said about me earlier which is ? to me.


overall I actually dont feel confident about this SR at all but I'm just kind of tired of getting nowhere this game

I might reread a bunch of titus games to figure out how she likes to interact with partners but I just lack any motivation atp

[Aristeia]

I feel like maybe I'm biased because he annoys me so much

[Aristeia]

I put 100% of the credit/blame for whatever this turns out to be on Dannflor sorry buddy

[Aristeia]

nobody was trying to hammer yessirree.

the most he got was two votes today.

[Aristeia]

I don't believe going off meta (especially on someone you don't know) is exactly the most reliable but ive been pretty honest here so maybe you find me as town maybe you don't.

^ here you're asking me to find you as town - the implicit assumption is that you're talking to me as if I'm town trying to sort you and you are appealing to me to sort you as town.

Your vote/trajectory on me is that I'm mafia.

Nothing in our conversation makes me feel like you think I'm mafia pushing a mislim on you, you're trying to be "reasonable" and appealing to me to find you as town based on logic and self meta.

[Aristeia]

like if you think I'm mafia and you think I'm voting you based on wanting to mislim you and shut you up for being right about me why would you think I care about your self meta?

[Aristeia]

ok so if you don't want to lim me who do you want to lim

[Aristeia]

maybe python

why python

[Aristeia]

Do tell.

two days two words

excellent effort RCE

[Aristeia]

Don’t think I’m on the Ari bad train anymore VOTE: Theta

If you want a legit case…can do, I’m 2 for 2 anyway.

is the legit theta case coming at some point today

[Aristeia]

Ari/Dann since I've joined feels very much like buddying, which isn't necessarily a scum thing but definitely makes me less full of the warm fuzzies if Dann is conftown.

where have I tried to buddy Dann

[Aristeia]

ok that makes sense

I don't feel confident about this flipping mafia. I feel very blegh this game

[Aristeia]

i have some thoughts on how lemon/naerys interactions with the rest of the players mean but I'm worried about being confbiased does anyone else want to go first

[Aristeia]

Why is yes being cleared?

I think yes is town because MU scum players are very one dimensional and the way lemon tangerine defended yes was not an s/s defense imo

[Aristeia]

i dont actually have any meta on lemon I just have low expectations of MU scumplayers

[Aristeia]

Mueh, ht, Ari and gamma voted for nearys on some pretty bad reasoning. Considering that's confirmed town and flipped town, I'd eat my hat if one of Ari/the ht slot wasn't scum.

I think Bella is town for this because I don't see her knowing Naerys is mafia and trying to vote off John Wayne with this kind of logic because it requires a certain amount of creativity thats rare.

also Dann said Bella is town so I trust him on that because he's played with her quite a bit more than I have.

[Aristeia]

So challenge for Naerys:
Go through my iso and I just want you to comment on all my takes on yourself. Can be anything just what you think I am doing/ur personal thoughts on my position/is it real-fake/possible opportunism. If you think i am smelly doody head, w/e. Just give me ur thoughts on how I have read and talked about yourself. I think this will be best I get for informing my read on you.

Nayers - Queen of Sloth. Possible Scum. Not feeling great about it. See my questions and stuff at her above posts.

yessiree looks worse but the reasons again. They just seem superficial anyone can make doesn't make it fake just means I can see anyone coming up with this even a scum player.
Show

After shitty day reading this about my post i put genuine effort into i really dont feel any desire to give you any helpful reaction. I might be throwing tantrum, but i am in bad mood so idc.
For your info: I am living like 3 years with deep depressions. I am using antidepressants and i am mostly stable but i have my mood swings. Could you kindly respect the fact that not everyone has energy, wits or w.e. to write tons of posts everyday?
I am playing this game bcz the solving is fun and i love interactions with players (well, some).
Have a good day

this is never s/s right

[Aristeia]

like who goes and screams about their rl problems to their scum teammates in the thread

also i never thought firebringer was mafia to begin with unless I guess he wants me to

[Aristeia]

I think the counterwagons deserve way more scrutiny than trying to call giving someone time for RL derailing a wagon and then bussing when time was up.

Using the fact, that i respect RL stuff and wanted to give her more time IS NOT FAIR AND U ARE KINDLY PISSING ME OFF WITH THIS.

i feel like this spews Davesaz as town

any1 think differently

[Aristeia]

this is never s/s right

I think 3602 is something scum fire doesn't say to scum naerys that late in the game, but I absolutely do think that 3649 is something scum naerys would say to scum fire, fwiw. I think Fire would have committed hard to bussing Naerys or put effort into making sure she was having fun with how self conscious she can be in the scum pt.

Grain of salt, her scumgame with me was literally her first completed scumgame, so maybe she was drastically more comfortable this game, but I doubt it.

I dunno I just never expect fire to fake fights with scum teammates in the pub chat he just seems like such a chill guy

[Aristeia]

they looked really angry at each other

[Aristeia]

i still think dave is scum

you could be right but I feel like Naerys did try to interact with dave a fair bit

[Aristeia]

I guess I'm thinking about the world where Dave is town and the world where Dave is mafia and I think how yesterday went makes more sense if Dave was town? like if Dave/Yessirree are both town it explains a lot about why the day felt like nothing was going on because the mafia didn't really care which of them went over; they were just twiddling their fingers waiting for another deadline rush

[Aristeia]

honestly don't know maybe python or the guy who only looks for the worst in ppl (erc enigma something like that name i already forgot) but pythons wagon is kinda already dead in the water. Ill probably find someone else after i get the readlist done today

I feel like this is textbook MU badly done distancing to Python

[Aristeia]

Yeah I also thought python was more likely the deep wolf of this game with lemon flip

cool mindmeld

[Aristeia]

honestly don't know maybe python or the guy who only looks for the worst in ppl (erc enigma something like that name i already forgot) but pythons wagon is kinda already dead in the water. Ill probably find someone else after i get the readlist done today

I feel like this is textbook MU badly done distancing to Python

If you told me that post was a shitty attempt at distancing I'd actually lean RCE, tbh. Just as a vacuum.

it could be both partners but userPython has the worse associatives because Python's been defending the lemon/naerys slot p hard

[Aristeia]

I'm like pretty easily confbiased but I just can't help but think Python is mafia here

[Aristeia]

Theta i am not arguing with ur analysis on how u think DE was cop. I think ur town here.
I am simply stating not everyone thinks like u and how I think Python could have seen the game if mafia, and especially if their partner is RCenigma.

I believe in your solve

[Aristeia]

Wanna shoot in yes/ari/dave probably

like all three of these are town

[Aristeia]

Anyways we were playing around with coloring the votecounts and picked up this:

Spoiler: Day 1

V OTECOUNT 1.0
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Player (0)	None
NOT VOTING: ssbm_kyouko , TheHoldSteady, Bellaphant, Gamma Emerald gob , DragonEater70 , Aristeia , Black, Firebringer , yessiree , Naerys Meuh , Hu Tao , RCEnigma, furtiveglance , Theta Alpine, usesPython
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 1.1
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
yessiree (3)	DragonEater70 , Gamma Emerald , Naerys
Black (2)	usesPython , gob
Firebringer (2)	TheHoldSteady, furtiveglance
Gamma Emerald (1)	yessiree
Naerys (1)	Aristeia
ssbm_kyouko (1)	Meuh
DragonEater70 (1)	RCEnigma
NOT VOTING: ssbm_kyouko , Bellaphant, Firebringer Hu Tao , Theta Alpine, Black
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.2
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Firebringer (3)	TheHoldSteady, furtiveglance , usesPython
ssbm_kyouko (2)	Meuh , Firebringer
yessiree (2)	Naerys , Theta Alpine
Black (2)	gob , ssbm_kyouko
Aristeia (2)	DragonEater70 , Black
Gamma Emerald (1)	yessiree
Naerys (1)	Aristeia
DragonEater70 (1)	RCEnigma
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Hu Tao , Gamma Emerald
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.3
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Aristeia (4)	DragonEater70 , Black, Theta Alpine, usesPython
Firebringer (2)	TheHoldSteady, furtiveglance
ssbm_kyouko (2)	Meuh , Firebringer
yessiree (1)	Naerys
Black (1)	ssbm_kyouko
Gamma Emerald (1)	yessiree
Naerys (1)	Aristeia
DragonEater70 (1)	RCEnigma
Meuh (1)	gob
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Hu Tao , Gamma Emerald
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice! Seeking replacement for ssbm_kyouko

V OTECOUNT 1.4
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Firebringer (3)	TheHoldSteady, furtiveglance , Black
Aristeia (3)	Theta Alpine, usesPython , Hu Tao
Titus (2)	Meuh
yessiree (1)	Naerys
Black (1)	Titus
Gamma Emerald (1)	yessiree
DragonEater70 (1)	RCEnigma
usesPython (1)	Aristeia
Naerys (1)	Firebringer
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Gamma Emerald , DragonEater70 , gob
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice! Seeking replacement for ssbm_kyouko

V OTECOUNT 1.5
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Firebringer (3)	gob , usesPython , yessiree
usesPython (3)	Aristeia , RCEnigma, Black
Aristeia (2)	Hu Tao , Titus
Naerys (2)	Firebringer , furtiveglance
yessiree (2)	Naerys , Theta Alpine
Titus (1)	Meuh
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Gamma Emerald , DragonEater70 , TheHoldSteady
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me (or Alisae since I'm not the real mod) of any votecount errors you notice! Seeking replacement for TheHoldSteady

V OTECOUNT 1.7
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (7)	Hu Tao , Meuh , davesaz, Firebringer , Black, yessiree , Aristeia
yessiree (5)	Naerys , Theta Alpine, DragonEater70 , Bellaphant, usesPython
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
Firebringer (1)	gob
Hu Tao (1)	Titus
usesPython (1)	RCEnigma
NOT VOTING: Gamma Emerald
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: I have seized control of the game in a coup d'etat. When Alisae is no longer sick they will return to their rightful place. Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.8
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (5)	Hu Tao , Meuh , Firebringer , yessiree , Aristeia
Hu Tao (4)	Titus , Naerys , usesPython , Gamma Emerald
davesaz (2)	DragonEater70 , RCEnigma
Firebringer (2)	gob , Black
yessiree (2)	Theta Alpine, Bellaphant
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
Gamma Emerald (1)	davesaz
NOT VOTING:
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: I have seized control of the game in a coup d'etat. When Alisae is no longer sick they will return to their rightful place. Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice! Searching for a replacement for Black.

V OTECOUNT 1.9
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (6)	Hu Tao , Meuh , Firebringer , yessiree , Aristeia , DragonEater70
Firebringer (2)	gob , Doctor Drew
Hu Tao (2)	Titus , Naerys
yessiree (2)	Theta Alpine, Bellaphant
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
davesaz (1)	RCEnigma
Theta Alpine (1)	usesPython
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Gamma Emerald
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: I have seized control of the game in a coup d'etat. When Alisae is no longer sick they will return to their rightful place. Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.10
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (6)	Hu Tao , Meuh , Firebringer , yessiree , Aristeia , DragonEater70
Hu Tao (4)	Titus , Naerys , usesPython , Gamma Emerald
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
davesaz (1)	RCEnigma
Firebringer (1)	gob
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Doctor Drew, Bellaphant
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: I'm back & recovered! Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.11
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (7)	Hu Tao , Meuh , Firebringer , yessiree , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , DragonEater70
Hu Tao (2)	Naerys , usesPython
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
davesaz (1)	RCEnigma
Firebringer (1)	gob
gob (1)	Titus
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Doctor Drew, Bellaphant
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.12
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (7)	Hu Tao , Meuh , Firebringer , yessiree , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , Doctor Drew
usesPython (3)	gob , Titus , RCEnigma
Aristeia (2)	usesPython , DragonEater70
Hu Tao (1)	Naerys
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Bellaphant
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.13
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (6)	Meuh , Hu Tao , davesaz, usesPython , yessiree , Naerys
DragonEater70 (5)	Firebringer , Titus , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , yessiree
usesPython (2)	gob , RCEnigma
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
Firebringer (1)	DragonEater70
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Doctor Drew
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2023-12-25 01:44:07)
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

V OTECOUNT 1.FINAL
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Titus (9)	Meuh , Hu Tao , davesaz, usesPython , Naerys , yessiree , RCEnigma, Aristeia , DragonEater70
DragonEater70 (3)	Firebringer , Titus , Gamma Emerald
usesPython (1)	gob
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
Bellaphant (1)	furtiveglance
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Doctor Drew
With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to flip!
Notes: Please alert me of any votecount errors you notice!

Spoiler: Day 2

V OTECOUNT 2.0
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Player (0)	None
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Bellaphant, Gamma Emerald , Enchant Aristeia , Doctor Drew, Firebringer , yessiree , Naerys Meuh , Hu Tao , RCEnigma, furtiveglance , Theta Alpine, usesPython
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.1
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
RCEnigma (3)	Aristeia , RCEnigma, usesPython
Firebringer (2)	Theta Alpine, Doctor Drew
usesPython (1)	Hu Tao
Theta Alpine (1)	Firebringer
Enchant (1)	yessiree
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Bellaphant, Gamma Emerald Enchant , Naerys , Meuh , furtiveglance
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.2
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
RCEnigma (5)	Aristeia , usesPython , Gamma Emerald , furtiveglance , Naerys
Firebringer (2)	Theta Alpine, Doctor Drew
usesPython (1)	Hu Tao
Theta Alpine (1)	Firebringer
Enchant (1)	yessiree
Aristeia (1)	RCEnigma
Bellaphant (1)	davesaz
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Enchant , Meuh
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.3
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
RCEnigma (5)	Aristeia , usesPython , Gamma Emerald , furtiveglance , Naerys
Aristeia (2)	RCEnigma, Hu Tao
Firebringer (1)	Doctor Drew
Theta Alpine (1)	Firebringer
Enchant (1)	yessiree
Bellaphant (1)	davesaz
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
furtiveglance (1)	Enchant
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Meuh
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.4
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
RCEnigma (5)	Aristeia , usesPython , Gamma Emerald , furtiveglance , Naerys
Aristeia (2)	RCEnigma, Hu Tao
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
Firebringer (1)	Doctor Drew
Bellaphant (1)	davesaz
yessiree (1)	Theta Alpine
furtiveglance (1)	Enchant
davesaz (1)	Firebringer
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Meuh
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.5
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
yessiree (4)	Theta Alpine, Bellaphant, davesaz, Firebringer
Naerys (4)	Meuh , Hu Tao , Gamma Emerald , Aristeia
RCEnigma (2)	furtiveglance , Naerys
Aristeia (1)	RCEnigma
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
furtiveglance (1)	Enchant
davesaz (1)	usesPython
NOT VOTING: Doctor Drew
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.6
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Naerys (4)	Meuh , Hu Tao , Gamma Emerald , Aristeia
yessiree (3)	Theta Alpine, Bellaphant, furtiveglance
davesaz (2)	Doctor Drew, Firebringer
RCEnigma (2)	Naerys , usesPython
Aristeia (1)	RCEnigma
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
furtiveglance (1)	Enchant
Firebringer (1)	davesaz
NOT VOTING:
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes:

V OTECOUNT 2.7
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
Naerys (3)	John Wayne , Aristeia , Firebringer
furtiveglance (3)	Enchant , Bellaphant, RCEnigma
davesaz (2)	Doctor Drew, usesPython
yessiree (2)	Theta Alpine, furtiveglance
RCEnigma (1)	Naerys
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
Firebringer (1)	davesaz
NOT VOTING: Gamma Emerald , Meuh
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes: Firebringer is on V/LA until 1/5

V OTECOUNT 2.8
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
furtiveglance (3)	Enchant , Bellaphant, RCEnigma
Naerys (2)	Aristeia , Firebringer
davesaz (2)	Doctor Drew, usesPython
yessiree (2)	Theta Alpine, furtiveglance
RCEnigma (1)	Naerys
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
Firebringer (1)	davesaz
NOT VOTING: Gamma Emerald , Meuh , John Wayne
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes: Firebringer is on V/LA until 1/5

V OTECOUNT 2.9
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
yessiree (6)	Theta Alpine, Gamma Emerald , Enchant , usesPython , davesaz, Naerys
RCEnigma (3)	Meuh , Aristeia , furtiveglance
furtiveglance (2)	Bellaphant, RCEnigma
davesaz (1)	Doctor Drew
Naerys (1)	Firebringer
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
NOT VOTING: John Wayne
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes: Firebringer is on V/LA until 1/5

V OTECOUNT 2.10
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
RCEnigma (6)	Meuh , Aristeia , furtiveglance , Doctor Drew, Firebringer , davesaz
yessiree (4)	Theta Alpine, Gamma Emerald , Enchant , Naerys
furtiveglance (3)	Bellaphant, RCEnigma, usesPython
Theta Alpine (1)	yessiree
NOT VOTING: John Wayne
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-01-07 01:23:17)
Notes: Firebringer is on V/LA until 1/5

V OTECOUNT 2.FINAL
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
furtiveglance (8)	Bellaphant, RCEnigma, usesPython , yessiree , Firebringer , Aristeia , Gamma Emerald , Enchant
RCEnigma (4)	Meuh , furtiveglance , Doctor Drew, davesaz
yessiree (2)	Theta Alpine, Naerys
NOT VOTING: John Wayne
With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to flip!
Notes:

VCA people what does the yellow group voting like that mean cause we're starting to paranoia 2+ scum in yessiree/ari/fb rn but I also don't have enough energy to read the game back to see if that actually makes sense

if there's two scum in that group it's FB/yessiree

pretty sure Ari is town

that being said, it's not clear to me what pattern you are seeing here python or why you are paranoiaing that group specifically

that being said, it's not clear to me what pattern you are seeing here python or why you are paranoiaing that group specifically

Mostly the perfectly split votes all converging onto titus then off titus in what looks like a pretty co-ordinated way. It probably looks way more reasonable in context and we just need to reread but the out of context picture is twigging our paranoia hard

i think scum teams tend to be overly cautious about trying *not* to look coordinated tbh

it's why it's paranoia and not a hardcore read

This feels like a classic case of "make something up" then walk it back when called out for not making sense

[Aristeia]

We're good enough as scum to actually believe the stuff we say but go off

You are good scum yes

[Aristeia]

because they hard defended the naerys/lemon slot yesterday

[Aristeia]

and all the people they pushed yesterday are probably town

[Aristeia]

Us having shit reads doesn't make us scum

the issue I had with your Naerys read wasn't that it was

wrong

- I just don't think it's something that you come up with as town. I know sometimes scum need to make towncases to shield their partners and they can't really find anything to towncase their partners for because their partner is really really scummy - so they have to invent a narrative of what

could

happen and hypothesize that it

is

what happened.

for example the crux of your "towncase" for Naerys!town was that Naerys was using Titus's activity in a different game in which they are together in to decide if Titus was mafia in this game.


3574

3575

3577

3578

3581

a simple alternative explanation could be that Titus logged into Mafiascum, posted in that game she is in with Naerys, then posted in the scum PT for her teammates to bus her because she thought it would be inevitable/she didnt want to put the effort into digging herself out of her situation and Naerys decided to vote Titus after getting this permission.

There's nothing concrete to say that your interpretation is what happened rather than the alternative and I don't see how you organically get to the point where you can confidently say that your version of events is what happened and overlook all of the scummy things that Naerys was doing to hardshield her like that.

[Aristeia]

the counterargument for you is why you would decide to hardshield a relatively scumread partner and compromise your own position in a mountainous game - because like it feels like it makes much more sense to just mercilessly bus someone who is scumspewing all over the thread and everyone scumreads instead of come up with a convoluted reason to hardshield them as it links your slots and you look much worse if they should ever be flipped.

I feel like there is a lot of incentive for you to actually hardshield the slot because Naerys really had a bunch of interactions that spew many mislimmable slots as town - for example when she snapped at Davesaz as well as how she fought with me earlier in the day. So you wouldn't want the Naerys/Lemon slot to get flipped early because it removes mis-elims that you need to win.

[Aristeia]

the counterargument for you is why you would decide to hardshield a relatively scumread partner and compromise your own position in a mountainous game - because like it feels like it makes much more sense to just mercilessly bus someone who is scumspewing all over the thread and everyone scumreads instead of come up with a convoluted reason to hardshield them as it links your slots and you look much worse if they should ever be flipped.

I feel like there is a lot of incentive for you to actually hardshield the slot because Naerys really had a bunch of interactions that spew many mislimmable slots as town - for example when she snapped at Davesaz as well as how she fought with me earlier in the day. So you wouldn't want the Naerys/Lemon slot to get flipped early because it removes mis-elims that you need to win.

I think you've got the wrong picture of our scumgame and we'll let people like Drew and yes man talk about it more but our game in general is very much the opposite of what you're describing. We don't plan ahead, we just gut instinct do stuff and get away with it through sheer charisma. As scum we wouldn't be 500 iq planning mislim chains, we'd just kill one person at a time and rely on being obvtown to not get limmed every day. Defending Naerys wouldn't be a question of how many mislims does it close of if she flips but the way lower level question of can we get away with defending her anyways regardless of what it does to the gamestate

ok i believe you that you didnt plan out everything when you decided to hard defend her

[Aristeia]

we'd just kill one person at a time and rely on being obvtown to not get limmed every day.

isnt this pretty much what you're doing in this game

[Aristeia]

when you present multiple ideas to someone they tend to pick and choose the weakest argument when they're mafia because it's easier to target a specific part of the case that's wrong

[Aristeia]

I don't really expect to get every part of python's reasoning on their play correct if they're mafia tbh I'm not some kind of mind reader. I just mostly guess and think

[Aristeia]

Jokes aside I think it would be useful for everyone to post their list of six players they think are free of scum

firebringer
bellaphant
doctor drew
bingle
ari
davesaz/yessiree ?

[Aristeia]

we'd just kill one person at a time and rely on being obvtown to not get limmed every day.

isnt this pretty much what you're doing in this game

Sure but that's our towngame too and now that we've reframed this we can get to the part that'll actually let you read us, namely do our stances this game make sense for us to have as town

your stances are openly scumsiding

[Aristeia]

cool, is it town scumsiding or scum scumsiding

scum scumsiding

[Aristeia]

Fwiw I think there is some kind of dichotomy between Dave and Bella. It’s probably easiest to follow through Bella’s iso day 1 and partially 2.

what does this even mean

like what does Dave's alignment have to do with Bella's?

[Aristeia]

like why can't they both just be town?

[Aristeia]

Mueh, ht, Ari and gamma voted for nearys on some pretty bad reasoning. Considering that's confirmed town and flipped town, I'd eat my hat if one of Ari/the ht slot wasn't scum.

Because the case was bullshit, Ari, frankly. Do you disagree?

Youbare telling me that scum get the chance to sheep conf!town onto lhf that other people had fairly low down their reads list and every one of them said nah, not today?

About the flash wagon on nearys. It was bad.

Meuh made a pretty bad case on nearys.

Mueh, you, gamma and hu tao voted for her basically in reaction.

I don't think four town and no scum look at the shit case and vote.

Considering one of the four is conf town and the other is flipped town, I'd really struggle to see that scum wouldn't jump on the opportunity to get an elim through (I will check who was actually being wagoned at the time as well)

Thereofor, I feel more Sus of you and Hu. Considering I was fine voting for both of you anyway, I may be conf!biased but I think the flash wagon is at least worth discussing.

Ari, that's an awful lot of words to exceptionally miss the point.

The thing I don't like about the case is that it lacks depth and everyone was... fine with that?

In fact, I think I'm the only person who went on the ask ney about her meta, her experience with Titus, etc., and it was her responses to that that made me doubt my sr: she wasnt trying to convince me of her take, even when I flat out disagreed with what she was saying about Titus's recent scum game - it felt like she was just stating her truth.

So of course the votes on look more opportunistic. Town, to Me, want to understand what's going on. It's what I'm not seeing in our interactions - you don't want to understand, you just wanna argue. You did the same to yessiree.


When I made my points about yess, although he started off being really 'wtf is this ' he later came back to 'meh, it's bad but I can why town would see this and think what Bella's thinking ' that thought process of 'can I see why someone would do that'. It's what I try to do as town so I tr it more naturally.

I expect you to go 'hey, it's not unreasonable that Bella thinks that four people flash wagonning someone without any apparent critical thought or engagement is a bit sus'.

It's not about being informed. This is what I said earlier to you: you keep adding in random stuff that feels really agenda led that isn't anything to do with the conversation. It stresses me out because I can't tell if you are mafia madly deflecting, or just blinkered town, or just massively defensive for??

It feels like it did with yessiree, that anything that looks like vaguely critical of you, you just kick off about. It's just a normal part of mafia and also the process of sorting people.

^ this sequence is why I think Bella is town in this game. Like she put forth a pretty flawed case[imo] about how Naerys was LHF and people were sheeping conftown!meuh onto Naerys!lhf and that there must be mafia in those sheep - and when I pushed back on her case being bad - she doubled down and got upset at me for fighting her and not trying to understand her. I feel like this shows she

geniunely believes

her case about - which would necessitate that she actually sees Naerys as an LHF slot and not a partnered slot.

[Aristeia]

and this bella case/push came when Dann had voted for Dave and Dave was the leading wagon so if Dave is town and Bella is mafia - strategically it doesn't even make sense for her to push this case against John Wayne[empty slot] at that point because the pressure is on Dave who is also town.

if Dave/Bella was a team then maybe it would make sense for her to make this bad push but I don't see why she'd do it for a town!dave

[Aristeia]

Any reason for all the bella townreads or is it just her not scumposting

Didn't u put her in too

Yeah but she's there for not scumposting so we wanna know if we missed something that made bella obvtown

I think Bella was the useful townie for scum who wanted Ari dead yesterday.

I agree with this assessment

the ari wagon yesterday sprang up right after I argued with Bella so I feel like it means scum thought they could get her vote on me and kill me there - the votes as I remember were Davesaz/Lemon/UserPython before Dannflor put his foot down and said no ari kill today so I kinda think it points to Python or Dave being mafia since if it was 2 T 1 S wagon it would probably pick up a 4th scum vote and maybe Bella joins to make 5. Python hopped on in a really weird way too and hopped off after Dannflor said no to ari being limmed.

[Aristeia]

like i am explaining to you my viewpoint on why the conclusions you draw are wrong and how i believe mafia play in that game state and the reasons why mafia play that way.

maybe im wrong and you're right and john wayne is mafia

maybe you're mafia who is making things up.

i do not know either way i am uninformed.

so the best i can do is explain to you my perspective as to why i disagree with you and your conclusions.

im not really sure what more you expect from me here.

Ari, you thought Bella could be mafia here, and this is a reaction to the same post where you now think it's towny. Wouldn't lemon flipping scum after Bella's 4725 make that post more likely to come from scum?

no the point I was making that Bella's post makes sense if she's scum and Lemon is town because she's seeing Lemon as an LHF slot when its not clear to me at all that Lemon is town lhf. my suspicion atp was that Bella was mafia tmiing lemon as town - if lemon is mafia it makes bella's line of play extremely unlikely if partnered with Lemon

[Aristeia]

no because Lemon wasn't even being attacked at that point - the most votes was on you[3]

[Aristeia]

I just feel like she really believed Lemon was town!LHF in the way she approached that argument - I don't think she has the personality to double down on a theory she

knows

is wrong

[Aristeia]

plus Dann's conclusion from my spat with Bella was that she was town for it and he knows her a lot better than I do so I am somewhat relying on him there

[Aristeia]

4699 Bellaphant vote Bingle 4 was Enchant 0
4717 Dannflor vote lemon.tangerine 1 was davesaz 2
4719 Firebringer vote lemon.tangerine 2 was davesaz 1
4725 davesaz vote Aristeia 1 was Bingle 3
4728 usesPython vote davesaz 2 was Bingle 2
4729 RCEnigma vote Theta Alpine 3
4747 usesPython vote Aristeia 2 was davesaz 1
4751 lemon.tangerine vote Aristeia 3

yea the context here was that Bella/Me began fighting about Bella's Bingle push with her logic - Dannflor decided to start pushing Lemon - then Dave votes me and Lemon/Python jump on and try to shove me - Dann comes in and shuts down my wagon by saying I'm town so it makes sense to me that Lemon/Python saw the threat from Dannflor pushing Lemon and decided it would be a good oppurtunity to push me when I'm fighting bella and hopefully get her vote and maybe even Yessirree's

[Aristeia]

I'd like to remind you that we're perfectly capable of ignoring the conftown to push who we want like we did with furtive

yes because Meuh was afk and 2 days inactive and didn't care about the game

Dannflor was extremely loud and present in threat to shut things down he didn't like

completely different scenarios

[Aristeia]

Also ignores there's the much easier and bigger wagon of Theta during that time which would be way easier to force through

I'm glad you're evaluating which wagons are easier to shove through rather than who the mafia are A+

[Aristeia]

like the whole defense of "oh I wasn't doing this thing like trying to kill you when it's possible to kill you because I could easily kill this other person over here instead" is just unconvincing to me.

when you are mafia you can only choose to kill one person at a time. Whether person A or person B or person C is

easier

is a subjective evaluation.

What I do know is that you didn't vote me to figure me out or anything you just did it because you felt like it and you never really explained your reasoning for doing so. in a vaccuum it looks pretty clear to me that you're planning to take advantage of in thread conflict to shove me to protect lemon.

[Aristeia]

We're already voting for mafia, we're waiting on the lims to start coming through

wdym

[Aristeia]

like the whole defense of "oh I wasn't doing this thing like trying to kill you when it's possible to kill you because I could easily kill this other person over here instead" is just unconvincing to me.

The defense isn't "we weren't trying to kill you" because at the time we def were trying to kill you otherwise we wouldn't have a vote there. The defense is that the killing you part wasn't to save lemon because there's way easier ways to do so than trying to kill you

why would it be easier to kill theta rather than me when I have conflicts with Bella+Yessiree and Bella is vocal in her suspicion of me and Dave just voted me

[Aristeia]

like just looking at that on its face you have lemon+you+dave + bella(maybe) + yessirree(maybe) add in your 3rd member + enchant autohammer = 7

why is theta the easier push for you? who is going to vote for theta with you?

[Aristeia]

Because Bella and Dave have no clout at that point whereas joining the Theta wagon (Theta has no clout) with Drew, yessiree, and RCEnigma who just got bonus clout after d2 is a much stronger position to be in

clout doesnt matter Bella+dave have votes