open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[tired person]

hi. seems like this is a relaxed game. i like relaxed games. people on this site post way too much imo.

skygazer was very towny, idk why you guys killed her. dannflor, jupiter and bella are also towny. shiki was also the towniest player in this game which means i don't have to defend myself. we win by killing projectry and outworlder in any order. ez game.

VOTE: outworlder

[tired person]

outworlder, can you please summarize your scumcase on projectry?

[tired person]

UNVOTE:

i need more time to think. the case on projectry isn't bad but it's lacking. i also noticed shiki said that dannfloor could be the last mafia and i want to look into why she said that. please give me a few days.

[tired person]

i have read up. i think black's wagon was an all town wagon. i don't have any reason to scumread projectry but i have good reasons to townread everyone else.

VOTE: projectry

if we end up being wrong, the doctor should be on me please, no wifom.

[tired person]

don't hammer outworlder please

[tired person]

i don't get the jupiter scumcase. could you please tldr?

[tired person]

sorry i wasn't around for the flashwagon. i don't really understand why you didn't protect dannflor though, outworlder. and how come you didn't die after your claim?

this situation is hard because i'm town reading everyone alive and that's a problem. i think it would have been easier if skygazer was still alive, but whatever.

i'll need to read both jupiter's and bella's isos, i guess.

[tired person]

oh, i forgot about your vt claim. i should have trusted my instinct and healed dannflor. sorry.

[tired person]

VOTE: bella but im not gonna be salty if yall wanna lim me. as long as tired person can clutch a protect at night i'm willing to be today's lim

do you think outworlder can be scum? why or why not?

[tired person]

i was hoping for more analysis from you

[tired person]

outworlder, do you think this is a townslip or a scumslip?

[tired person]

isn't bellaphant due for a prod?

[tired person]

ok seriously tho do you guys actually want me to reread the whole game or what

not rly, but if you could read last day phase and the end of day 1 and give me your thoughts of who is scum that should be enough.

[tired person]

i think you implied that you think it's jupiter but i am not sure if the only reason is sheeping dannflor or something else also.

[tired person]

VOTE: jupiter

[tired person]

pooky, i want to know what you think about jupiter in isolation.

[tired person]

alright, pooky is town

more thoughts about jupiter v outworld tomorrow

UNVOTE: jupiter

[tired person]

sorry guys, i don't have time today to read all the new pages v_v

i super promise to do it tomorrow.

what i can say is that i think jupiter ruling outworlder out at the beginning of this say phase combined with the post about doctor self-protecting, might've been a scumslip, because maybe jupiter tried to kill outworlder n1 and failed. yeah outworlder was my doc save n1 and t3 hinted that he didn't even perform the kill:

Why the hell would I submit the kill if I was scum

If I am scum here then I WILL LITERALLY JUST HAVE MY PARTNER SUBMIT THE KILL TO AVOID GETTING BLOCKED BY THE JAILKEEPER. Yeah, Titus, no shit, I'm the obvious Jailkeeper target!!!

God you're so tunneled just like every single game I play with you

This means there's about a 33% chance T3 is scum because Titus jailkept him. Maybe you think it's unlikely that T3 was the nightkill target (fair enough) - that's still a 50-50 split between "T3 is scum" and "the Doctor saved someone last night".

What I've been trying to say for a while is that

if I'm scum, I don't have to be the person carrying out the kill

From your POV, if I flip town, then what? A doctor has a clear, who in all likelihood is someone who we're all townreading already?

The mech against me only works if I am the one to submit the kill. Ignoring the fact that I already knew that Titus was Jailkeeper, I will only submit the kill if either my partner is so towny that they would be jailed, or so scummy that they would be jailed. In the former scenario, my only possible partners are Dannflor, OWER, and maybe Jupiter although I don't think that scum would see him as competent enough to kill. In the latter scenario, my only possible partner is Kurta.

The only people who have actually gone ahead and expressed why they scumread me for reasons other than mech are Titus and Skygazer. I don't hate Skygazer's case but Titus' case is clearly rooted in confirmation bias.

also, i checked this yesterday when i was going over whether dannflor had any chance to be scum, and i've concluded that yes, t3 did have a reason to nightkill outworlder.

outworlder was basically (correctly) tunneled on a t3/black solve, as demonstrated from this post + his next 7 posts in iso:

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

Why is Titus town?

Because you and T3 are scum.

so if town!outworlder was left alive, t3 could count on him mega pushing him after black's flip and therefore had to kill him.

thoughts, pooky? since the other two are kinda in direct 1v1.

[tired person]

what was ur idea

[tired person]

sorry for my abscence, i am rereading this day phase now.

Hi, I return. Apologies for the absence. Here's a wall of quotes I wanted to respond to while catching up

Spoiler: Quotes Wall

Not sure I agree with OutWorldER at 211 . In fact I don’t agree. Getting to the content I don’t agree that saying you would need a lot to switch reads is not town.

That wasn't the way he phrased it to me though. He said it would be a "pretty big swing to switch those reads right now" which reads to me like he's judging how jarring other townies would find his switch, not that he was dissatisfied with the evidence presented.

Right, in regards to catching up. I want to note in particular that OutWorldER's responses overall are giving me a strong tr on him, and as far as D1 reads go it's the most solid I currently have.
-SNIP-

Could you elaborate on why you're townreading me? If it's the strongest read you have, then I think you should be able to articulate it. Frankly, I myself aren't so sure what exactly I've done so far that exudes towniness.

I understand the scum reads on Jupiter

I think they have a posting style that is very stream of consciousness and somewhat performative and I tend to scum read that type of posting style a lot. But idk currently I feel that is more a sign of personality than a sign of alignment in this game

But like I *get* it

What, specifically, in Jupiter's posting allows you to make the distinction between alignment and personality?

Kurtapika > T3 > Black

these are dannflor approved wagons in about the order i feel comfortable wagoning them

What is your Black case, again? I'm not sure if I missed it while trying to read back up but I couldn't find where you give an exact reason for suspecting Black.

I'm kind of torn because I think Dann is a comfortable townread for me right now, but I also feel like Kurta's move onto Skygazer could be genuine, and the over-justification is simply a symptom of being in an unfamiliar meta. But even that said, they're a nullish read for me at best right now, voting low-content/low-activity slots is a very classic scum move to appear townie, and I'm general agreement with Dann here that the very diluted votes here and sheer amount of vanity votes is hurting Town's ability to read the game.

I'm going to VOTE: Kurtapika here to consolidate. I'm comfortable here or on shaddowez.

ok read what is in the spoilered quote box and tell me if you see something that doesnt make sense to you

i did find something that didn't make sense to me. looks like he may have tmi'd shaddowez as town.

[tired person]

i think you implied that you think it's jupiter but i am not sure if the only reason is sheeping dannflor or something else also.

mostly dannflor and nka - like why does outworldER shoot dannflor if dannflor's last words to the thread are "never kill outworldER"

like the only reason would be to lock in reads and he's worried dannflor will 180 the read again AND he is also highly sure the rest of you are too demotivated to try to overturn thread consensus.

ok yeah but why would i kill dannflor as scum im not as oblivious to NKA as to just.... openly kill sm1 who scumreads me ????? i mean maybe to make this exact argument but idfk man. (rhetorical question btw)

also posting is a pain on the ass on mobile so if i miss anything lemme know.

well sure its wifom but also If you believe Dannflor is going to be gunning for you and he's clearly the loudest voice in the thread then your best bet is to shoot him at night so he doesnt live to today and push you.

sure it looks bad for you but that's just kind of the price you pay because if you leave him alive and he hardshoves you you might die from that. I dunno how much you know about dannflor's meta to know about whether he's overstating confidence or bluffing or posturing in order to manipulate the nightkill - afaik you are a total n00b to this site and have not much experience with Dannflor so you wouldn't know if you can gamble that he's lying about reads - heck I've played plenty of games with Dannflor and I don't know whether his statement about OWER is geniune belief or some kind of gambit.

im also arrogant enough in my own scumhunting abilities that I might just ignore dannflor's read on OWER but i'd feel pretty shitty if i was wrong.

the nightkill points to you because it is the easiest nightkill for you to make.

Does OWER shoot Dannflor there or does he shoot Bella or TP and go into 4p? I really dont know?

Like maybe OWER thinks dannflor is the doctor for whatever reason ???? - like I guess if OWER is mafia and he thinks there's no way afayeed knott claims doctor like the way he did AND dannflor's townread of shiki has to do with Dannflor thinking that Shiki is pretending to be doctor to shield doctor dannflor?!?!? like thats a really far out there thing. I honestly dont know. Its really wild to me that scum even made that nightkill because if Dannflor is not the doctor then he is one of the

most

likely targets for being doctored and if you shoot into a doc protect there you get completely blown out many many times.

fwiw, i 100% thought dannflor was obviously the doctor and shiki was shielding him before i replaced in. and i was asking myself why did titus jail dannflor of all people. so it's entirely possible that outworlder had a similar read to mine.

[tired person]

i agree, i was too excited at putworlder doing the nk bait

[tired person]

hi i just clicked the first 4 links you posted for outworlder's iso. i already knew the alignment fir the first two because i've read these games, but i easily guessed his alignment in the third game (town) and that he was anti town in the second game before it was re-randomized.

i agree that applying the same standards of guessing his alignment based on an iso skim, he's scum.

[tired person]

i am not really sold on outworlder being scum but i guess i am sold on jupiter and pooky being town.

VOTE: outworlder

[tired person]

UNVOTE:

[tired person]

i am not really sold on outworlder being scum but i guess i am sold on jupiter and pooky being town.

VOTE: outworlder

did you read that sequence I said looked faked where OWER on page 40 was giving Black the business about being mafia with T3.

like I am really waffly on whether that is faked or geniune.

I just feel like it looks

too good

to be real and I need someone to tell me like if im being crazy about that page of the game

i read it and i am not sure.

outworlder, do you have any town game where you were so confident about someone, or a team, being scum on day 1 like in that exchange on page 40?

[tired person]

i dunno, i am not rly reading outworlder's approach to calling himself town as towny, but i try to favor mechanics over tone when i'm reading people and i guess mechanically that's a lot of points in his favor.

i will vote whoever pooky wants, in the end.

[tired person]

I don't have the time to go point by point but the extreme fundamental issue I have with your case is that it's entirely cherry-picked; Taking my switching stance from Kurta to T3 as an example, in between those 50 posts from myself was you, yourself, proposing a theory that Kurtapika was a mislim because the wagon had stalled with no counter. I agreed with that theory, and in fact me agreeing with that theory came up several times later in the day and formed a core part of my TR on Kurta until Titus jailed him.

This is case the majority of the time I switched stances. Somebody said something, and I agreed with it and changed my mind. There are

69

(nice) posts and over 24 hours between me voting T3 out of a willingness to consolidate, to genuinely thinking he's scum when he posted his case against Titus. Framing it as "literally two posts later" is frankly disingenuous.

i had a look at those 50 posts between voting k and t3, and the 69 posts between voting t3 and saying he's scum with black, and i buy outworlder's progression on t3 and black. there was a lot going on in those posts.

i also find dannflor's case on jupiter mildly convincing.
VOTE: jupiter

[tired person]

gg! was a fun game :

)

i also thought jupiter was incredibly towny for 99% of the game. the puppy eyes were effective