Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[JacksonVirgo]

His intent to hammer was "I'll hammer when it's 15 mins before" whatever, he didn't say it 15 mins before. To clarify, which I feel is obvious but who knows

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean at the point Python was at, I'd be betting there's scum ON the wagon more so than off

[JacksonVirgo]

That's to say I think one is off and one is on

[JacksonVirgo]

I guess I feel it is kind of too late for light ganski although I do not hate that elimination choice

Ah damn, I was looking back for who said this cuz I was gonna say they were town as fuck too. RIP

[JacksonVirgo]

In that pool, excluding your reasonings, I think Drew is the worse looking one in contrast to my town-reads of the other two. Is this purely people that

never

voted Python? Because that's an overly restricted pool I don't think means what you think it means, I'd rather see the progression people had in regards to their votes on python to really tell you what's what

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Ganski felt cute, probably won't delete later

[JacksonVirgo]

Also, I almost always will buss my buddy in a scenario like D1.

Exactly the logic that I'm applying to assume there's going to be surely one wolf on wagon, it was a struggle to push against the wagon though too so one off one on is where I'm at.

[JacksonVirgo]

In that pool, excluding your reasonings, I think Drew is the worse looking one in contrast to my town-reads of the other two. Is this purely people that

never

voted Python? Because that's an overly restricted pool I don't think means what you think it means, I'd rather see the progression people had in regards to their votes on python to really tell you what's what

Nothing wrong with a restricted pool lol. Its 4 people anyway thats like 25% or something of the alive ppl. Not a small pool by any means.

It also definitely means what i am saying it means. There is context obviously, but we also have to go with what is most obviously likely based on peoples

actions

aka votes. imo

I said overly restricted, based on logic that I don't think is inherently meaningful so it's just a pool for the sake of a pool.

[JacksonVirgo]

Probably the person I'm voting, lol

[JacksonVirgo]

Btw VOTE: usesPython

I see you're also counting very early pg3 votes too

[JacksonVirgo]

Probably the person I'm voting, lol

That player is no longer in the game.

They replaced out, the slot still exists

[JacksonVirgo]

Hm, naerys's vote I didn't really register in my head until now

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, if you think there's one on, one off - why are you pushing Ganski's slot exclusively as opposed to hunting inside it?

Why can't I do both?

[JacksonVirgo]

You're quite fun to play with Jackson. Post a lot and makes the game feel active.

Ooo thank you :D

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, if you think there's one on, one off - why are you pushing Ganski's slot exclusively as opposed to hunting inside it?

Why can't I do both?

Where's the both, in this scenario?

What do you mean?

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, if you think there's one on, one off - why are you pushing Ganski's slot exclusively as opposed to hunting inside it?

Why can't I do both?

Where's the both, in this scenario?

What do you mean?

Where's the evidence that you've been doing both - today?

Ah gotcha gotcha that's what you meant by that question, I haven't yet beyond addressing my reads as to where they are but I've been planning to expand my horizons. I thought you were saying I can't vote Ganski and consider other people at the same time which I felt was a little weird to ask. To change my answer, near the end of the day I've realised that I was on the wrong path of thinking and realised the root of my SR on black was actually because of Ganski and the weights I had for the reasonings were faulty. Coming into today I haven't put too much thought into anything yet so I will be and it's not like I haven't been thinking about other slots considering gob made me think of the read on drew which I need to look into more, and naerys' vote on ganski is something I'm noting as well.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm just going to ignore that it feels like you're trying to make a gotcha moment because I town-read you but this is me saying that's what it feels like

[JacksonVirgo]

Repeatedly

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not even referring to the questions per se, moreso your attitude towards me

[JacksonVirgo]

Beyond the point, carry on

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I realised that after I said that, ignore me. I'm sure I do the same thing

[JacksonVirgo]

Is it possible they exaggerated to act defeated/defeatist to try and gather sympathy?

[JacksonVirgo]

That pedit saved me from misgendering, thank you sir

[JacksonVirgo]

That's a very good point, I need to think on that. Top of the dome theory is that possibly his support line and the people that were pro-gob may not have been the same people, I need to check this because I'm just throwing ideas at the wall but that is where my gut first tells me to look.

[JacksonVirgo]

Because important fact: Python didn't go for gob, and went for Black instead. I think that's super indicative when their ass is on the line.

The good point being this, forgot to quote

[JacksonVirgo]

Dave, Ranger, JV are all the main actual voters on black and they're all (except me) in the would go for gob bracket so yeah that's unlikely

[JacksonVirgo]

Is it possible they exaggerated to act defeated/defeatist to try and gather sympathy?

Moreso, as I said, I almost guarantee it was to promote the discussion we are having now.

Possibly

[JacksonVirgo]

I hope so, I like gob a lot

[JacksonVirgo]

Is it possible they exaggerated to act defeated/defeatist to try and gather sympathy?

Moreso, as I said, I almost guarantee it was to promote the discussion we are having now.

Is this line of thinking leading you into this conclusion or are you seeing this from HEM isolated from that

[JacksonVirgo]

Ye i think we should keep limming in those python spew as those who would vote gob untill bye scum

What would your preferred lim order be in that list?

[JacksonVirgo]

I guess you gotta go then VOTE: usesPython

VOTE: Black

Can you remember why you changed your mind here?

I sure do, the python vote was a joke while the black one wasn't

[JacksonVirgo]

I just realised you were the one that was being like very close to hammer, my heart sank to my toes my god

And this is why I changed as quick as I did

[JacksonVirgo]

... what?

[JacksonVirgo]

Maybe not scumpoints for JV, I might be misinterpreting the question in the 2nd post as agreement when it's meant to be something else.

I very much do not agree with it, in fact I town-read most in that pool I was just asking where they stood because their slot is a point of contention for me, if that's the right word to use

[JacksonVirgo]

Ye i think we should keep limming in those python spew as those who would vote gob untill bye scum

What would your preferred lim order be in that list?

1) light
2)dave
3)drew
4)black
5)ranger

What's your reasons for ganski specifically? And then by extension dave

[JacksonVirgo]

No, we're not going to take any list that Python posted and just blindly run down it.

--snip--
If gob is town, he legit thought there was no way he could sway the vote to Gob. So what's your take on Python's post and switch to Black away from Gob?
--snip--

Is it possible they exaggerated to act defeated/defeatist to try and gather sympathy?

Possibly. He listed my name as people who wouldn't go for gob despite not mentioning anything about it.

Was this just a shallow acknowledgement of what I said then? You seem >90% convinced you're right on what you just said.

[JacksonVirgo]

Post numbers are off by 1 and I can't figure out why my Python program is wrong. (yes, I'm a programmer and I use Python, it's quite the coincidence lol)

Man, the moment I started using python for actual app stuff it was over for my sanity. I'm never going back there. Are you making sure the first post (the OP) is post 0?

[JacksonVirgo]

It's a possibility. Dangerous to make conclusions. This game is hedging bets.

Well I agree with you there

[JacksonVirgo]

What if Python tried to swing the vote to a buddy who they knew wouldn't have enough support to lim? Or for the distancing value?
I don't think that's likely, but when doing detective type work it's important to not prematurely rule out things.

(I've probably used wrong pronouns tonight, just caught myself there. Hard habit for a 60+ to change)

Who would that be in this circumstance, Black?

[JacksonVirgo]

Shaking my brain, I need to mentally reset. I'm too locked on Ganski to really analyse people for themselves

[JacksonVirgo]

Gonna give it a good rattle then get back to you all in the morning

[JacksonVirgo]

Who would that be in this circumstance, Black?

We've been talking about the who would/wouldn't vote for gob list.

The point was that Python refused to wagon gob, may be delirium but how does gob fit what you're saying

[JacksonVirgo]

Lmao yay, I'm back

[JacksonVirgo]

JV/T-Bone are the two I'd prefer to vote today. Ranger I'd be willing to consolidate on. With Ranger I've had a sneaking suspicion all game that she's mastermind scum trying to play us all. I kinda pushed that feeling down after everyone told me this is Ranger's town game. I still have a hard time seeing her gambit at the end of D1 coming from scum but maybe that was part of her plan. A TWTBAW route. If it had worked then python would still be here, so it would probably have been worth

That gambit, if it came from scum, would be high risk with pretty low reward. So I'm going to have a hard time reading it as such

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson accused me of self preservation, something he townread python for.

I will respond in more detail, but you said this before and once again I'll say that you're oversimplifying what I was saying to a pretty large degree. The surface level self preservation is true, I read you both differently for self preservation but it's not just that it was how it was done that was vastly different. It was wrong, yeah but my thoughts on it were still my thoughts on it and they couldn't be further from the same. I also already admitted that I got thrown in a loop mentally and was clouded, I mixed together my read on you and my read on ganski without realising how closely paired the both reads had gotten. I realised it before the end of the day, which is why I started my pivot back to ganski.

[JacksonVirgo]

JacksonVirgo, please make a comeback. We miss you! I don't want to eliminate your replacement - I want to eliminate

you

.

Omg ahahaha, how could I not after this sentimental push on me

[JacksonVirgo]

push me and not do much else

I don't believe this is a fair acknowledgement of what I've done at all

[JacksonVirgo]

No rush at all

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm gonna ignore that

[JacksonVirgo]

This is so sad, alexa play Cursed to Die by lorna shore

[JacksonVirgo]

If I do end up going out today, I know legacy reads are more than useless but just don't flip gob. Thank you

[JacksonVirgo]

Got a splitting headache, making it difficult to really think

[JacksonVirgo]

Care to share with the class dear sir?

[JacksonVirgo]

I hope he's leading up to a spicy reveal, and I hope double that it's someone incredibly goofy that just gets rejected by everybody immediately cuz that's hilarious

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not really understanding Enchant's defeatism here, it doesn't feel like its overly fitting. Like, from last I remembered the focus has been spread between a few people. Like it's Ranger, Enchant and myself wagoned right now. Enchant and myself tied as per my VC program. I don't get the "do nothing but complain". I also dislike how they put undue pressure on Black for a response that isn't really needed to begin with. That being said, a few things they've said would be weird from the perspective of a wolf. Publicly mason hunting being one of them, actually checking their ISO that's the only thing.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have a little dissonance in my head, I think the desire to be right is making it difficult to see this game for what it is.

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm genuinely feeling myself gravitate towards a HEM vote I'm not gonna lie, not sure where that's coming from exactly but I've been feeling it a lot but kept pushing it down

[JacksonVirgo]

Every time I have a cursory scan of all of who I would consider low hanging fruit which happens to also be my PoE, none of them really feel right and at the same time while I do town-read HEM, a lot of that is due to me pushing down feelings because I feel I'm at higher risk of seeing them worse off because of the initial push on me. But seeing Black do the same thing with me that I saw in HEM but without the same feeling I'm getting, I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't push it down.

[JacksonVirgo]

I hope double that it's someone incredibly goofy that just gets rejected by everybody immediately cuz that's hilarious

I'm genuinely feeling myself gravitate towards a HEM vote

-_-

[JacksonVirgo]

light_ganski (1): JacksonVirgo

This should be Enchant no?

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

I might not be around for EoD so im gonna jsut drop this here. manyli agree with waht monkey has sai dabout J_V. Furthermore, i do not like the not-caring type attitude they are taking,,

Damn you're high as fuck

[JacksonVirgo]

The spelling, not the vote

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[JacksonVirgo]

Furthermore, i do not like the not-caring type attitude they are taking,,

I care, I care a lot

[JacksonVirgo]

I feel like there would be more of a defense and a sense of urgency.

Why? Where is this belief coming from?

[JacksonVirgo]

Like here you even back off critiquing my scumread on you. Just sorta odd to me, but i could be wrong. Again I am high

"back off", I wasn't critiquing it at all so there was nothing to back off from.

[JacksonVirgo]

I understand why I'm being scum-read, I don't like it at all but I'm not fighting it not because of lack of caring but because I don't want to waste my energy doing so when it's never worked in the past. If I go out, I go out. I do what I can do.

If I'm not hammered by the time I do this, I'm going to be ISO-diving HEM and the ganski slot to see what I feel about them. Because I'm tossing them up, my gut is leaning HEM while logic is leaning Ganski so I wanna see which I feel about looking back. I was gonna do this with the LHF but I don't really care to anymore and if I put too much on my plate I'll end up doing none of it

[JacksonVirgo]

I've repeatedly called out when people have spoken about me in a way I think is not fairly acknowledging me. Most notably HEM and Black, you saying I'm not caring is just wrong

[JacksonVirgo]

Is there an issue with that?

[JacksonVirgo]

Eh, it depends on the person and their meta I guess.

You guess, can you not throw other peoples play styles down my throat

[JacksonVirgo]

Yo this song is so good, I haven't heard it in so long but hearing it again got me vibing so hard

[JacksonVirgo]

That means you Enchant, Drew, NAerys, monkey, Black. None of you hammer early. We need to use all the time in Blitzy

Why would I hammer myself? Lol

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think I'm interested in JV today

Why not?

Cuz I'm just super cute

[JacksonVirgo]

it's just Black and Ganski slot for them, and no one else even comes close to mattering.

I do tend to hard-focus on a few people, it's a bad habit

[JacksonVirgo]

I didn't consider Ganski a low hanging fruit but yeah true they would be. Now anyway, they weren't when they were Ganski

[JacksonVirgo]

And like, going for me based on gut isn't gamesolving. JV has previously declared what he would do to gamesolve and yet have not been doing any of that ever since he returned. I'm not super inspired to change my vote away from JV.

I literally said what I was going to be doing in regards to that feeling, could you like not?

[JacksonVirgo]

I want to get rid of this feeling on you, and the gut feeling on you is starting to overpower my thoughts about Ganski. I can't shake it off anymore

[JacksonVirgo]

If you're not liking my lack of depth, too bad? I'm doing what I can

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not sure ganski was a LHF until today or at least the end of d1

So you agree that Ganski/Elements is a LHF? Okay.

Every time I have a cursory scan of all of who I would consider low hanging fruit which happens to also be my PoE, none of them really feel right and at the same time while I do town-read HEM, a lot of that is due to me pushing down feelings because I feel I'm at higher risk of seeing them worse off because of the initial push on me. But seeing Black do the same thing with me that I saw in HEM but without the same feeling I'm getting, I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't push it down.

Because the statement is recent. That's what I'm talking about.

I love being ignored

[JacksonVirgo]

If you're not liking my lack of depth, too bad? I'm doing what I can

It's not lack of depth that I scumread. It's what you choose to do.

And what am I choosing to do?

[JacksonVirgo]

Because important fact: Python didn't go for gob, and went for Black instead. I think that's super indicative when their ass is on the line.

The good point being this, forgot to quote

Thanks for pulling my statement out of context

[JacksonVirgo]

I see you're saying words, but I'm getting no meaning from it

[JacksonVirgo]

You've repeatedly taken my words for what they aren't, could you like not do that. Thanks

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't feel like "they said they didn't think it was LHFs but their top scum read became a LHF today" is very compelling

You've been in the wrong side of the argument a lot in Day 1, so I'm not surprised.

Holy shade batman

[JacksonVirgo]

I am having issues

[JacksonVirgo]

HEM's D1 was near perfect town. While their D2 was not. I'm so torn. 826 this early interaction with Pythin seem natural. The frustration of being misrepresented feels pure. 856 they saw what I had caught, they came to a different conclusion than I did but they caught it nonetheless. The reasons I had HEM as town remain true looking back with the mindset of thinking they're wolf. But then jumping into today, they seem to be pushing hard agenda's (if that's the right way to say it). There was a complete behaviour shift.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't know if I go with my old read and write off the feelings I dont like about HEM as just me not liking their push on me but that feels wrong to do because I disliked their take on Gob earlier today as well and that has nothing to do with me.

[JacksonVirgo]

They've chosen to ignore what I said, or take me out of context and say logic that is completely unfair to say. I don't feel this is from somebody that's genuinely taking me for what I am giving but one that wants me out and is doing things to get me out. That's how it feels

[JacksonVirgo]

I've been nervous to even remotely suggest it because I don't want to do a bronze level strat and OMGUS for the sake of OMGUS

[JacksonVirgo]

Like I understand why people would think I'm wolf taking my play into consideration but even with that I don't think he's treating me like a Town would.

[JacksonVirgo]

Black had called me out for something that I feel was not taking me for what I am, but even with her saying that and considering how strong I scum-read them yesterday I did not get the same feeling that HEM is giving me now with his push on me

[JacksonVirgo]

No but logic of people in this game is annoying me

Mood

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you think people are maliciously using bad logic against you?

[JacksonVirgo]

Or just bad

[JacksonVirgo]

Feels like just bad

And who to you is saying all this bad logic against you? I saw you responded to HEM but who else?

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah, Naerys is town

[JacksonVirgo]

Can you rephrase I didn't understand properly

[JacksonVirgo]

If you don't understand then you don't understand.

Don't complain when you get eliminated with this attitude

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh, I know

[JacksonVirgo]

Personally, if I had to guess I would say Drew lazy town, I lean town on JacksonVirgo, and believe it's Naerys + Enchant. However, I know I could be wrong on my guess, so I will vote anyone not clearly town.

... why are you voting me if you lean me town?

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo[/vote]

Checkmate

[JacksonVirgo]

I can both believe JacksonVirgo is town and believe there's a good chance they flip scum. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I've explained my stance here repeatedly.

Explain how they aren't mutually exclusive

[JacksonVirgo]

And if you're going to say "I already explained it" you didn't. Explain it again

[JacksonVirgo]

Crazy

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah, I think this "clear disconnect" is just semantics. I still want HEM

[JacksonVirgo]

Any wagon within my pool of four, I'll support.

So as long as JV and Enchant are the focus, I'll vote either.

These feel contradictory

[JacksonVirgo]

Everyone knows enchant is at E-1 yes?

[JacksonVirgo]

Well, there's not going to be support for Naerys, and I doubt Doctor Drew would be.

It's still weird to frame it the way you have

[JacksonVirgo]

awdawd

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Enchant

[JacksonVirgo]

Gob, Naerys, Ranger, Black, Dave all townie.
Drew and STD are fine
T-Bone I wanna look into more
HEM, Enchant are baddies

That's where I'm at right now. I dont think both HEM and Enchant are partners if enchant flips red.
Ranger's actions are weird but they're weird weird so I don't think it means anything.
I like Drews progressions, them jumping to Ranger doesn't make a whole lot of sense especially if Enchant is red
STD I like mainly cuz he's seeing me for me, which isn't something I should town-read but I'm going to anyway
Everyone else I believe I explained except T-Bone who just fell off to me, if Enchant is green I'm going to put more eyes on T-Bone for not doing anything when two town wagons were in the heat the entire day.

[JacksonVirgo]

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh no, whatever am I going to do

[JacksonVirgo]

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay you can post anime gifs, they were better.

me irl

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean it's already too late, I hammered

[JacksonVirgo]

I would have preferred HEM, Enchant was fine and it's exponentially better than me dead

[JacksonVirgo]

0% chance of flipping wolf if I go
>1% chance of flipping wolf on anybody else.

Don't call me conceited

[JacksonVirgo]

And that's ignoring anything to do with the games content

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean tbf Drew, they explained it as consolidating more so than voting cuz they thought I would flip wolf. You should argue that part instead of the contradiction between the reads and the vote

[JacksonVirgo]

Unless you don't believe that

[JacksonVirgo]

But now just could have just been a pocket attempt

Am I not allowed to just town-read someone strongly?

[JacksonVirgo]

Get his thoughts and then hammer me, I'm done with this game. This isn't a scum-claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't remember you saying that

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe the mafia being mistakenly thought by me to be masons explains a lot of their control over D1. That gave them four votes together, in effect. I'll own up to the mistake and the consequences of it, yet if the result of my mistake is the entire scumteam spewed, I'll take the silver lining. :P

zzz, yeah throw the blame of what you did purely onto me rn. So wise

[JacksonVirgo]

I think I have an hour to deep dive while dinner is being cooked (1.5 hours from now after travel and shopping), and a couple more hours after dinner.

I didn't clock that post, I just saw they were hammer range and went brr

[JacksonVirgo]

Get his thoughts and then hammer me, I'm done with this game. This isn't a scum-claim.

Why are you not feeling this game?

It's less me not feeling this game and more if I'm going out nmw like it seems every single person wants me out, no use delaying that unnecessarily. The feeling of pending doom is unnerving

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: T-Bone

For prosperity

[JacksonVirgo]

Eventually I will be right, surely lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not complaining about being pushed, I completely understand it but expanding on my reasoning from yesterday. Enchant and I were both Town getting pushed to a pretty substantial degree and T-Bone just did not put pressure anywhere unlike his presence in the early game.

[JacksonVirgo]

why are we town reading Black and StD again

Why do you not is the better question

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: T-Bone

[JacksonVirgo]

Just realised T-bone probably tried pocketing Ranger as of yesterday

[JacksonVirgo]

zzz

[JacksonVirgo]

I simply don't want to waste my breath any longer. Everything I've said has come and bit me in the ass, taken out of context or just ignored and I'm not interested in that. Most notably Drew labelling my TR on gob as pocketing, them just throwing what i said about Enchant as "this is scummy owo", you taking my words out of context yesterday multiple times and just now in that last post you saying I can't SR you because I must have had some ulterior motive to doing so like what, also in regards to you saying my surrender is scummy and you'll ignore (which is very much not ignoring as you literally said it, and from what i see you have no real plans on considering other people considering the wording in both those posts). T-Bone just pretending my read on them is unsubstantiated and based in nothing. Ranger consumed by confirmation bias enough that they've expanded upon "this would be super cool if I was right, here's twenty posts talking about it" which is just going to cement her feelings further that she was indeed right until directly proven that she isn't which would be my death. I just have very little confidence that my words will ever be heard, and that's okay I am not complaining about it as it just happens when you're scum-read to this degree but don't tell me that I should be doing something when your collective actions (not your push) is the thing dissuading me from doing so.

That being said, I don't think a single person excluding STD, wants anybody except for me for an elimination while anyone else is just a secondary choice for them. Which is crazy to think that nobody is looking at that except me but maybe that's cuz I know I'm Town, or you're all consumed by the read you just consider that wolves would just bus which is also fair I guess.

[JacksonVirgo]

You're right, it doesn't end on my death. So win the game for me.

[JacksonVirgo]

Collective "you"

[JacksonVirgo]

For that

[JacksonVirgo]

I just realised I never said "you" lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

i die tonight bro, i'll see you in dead thread. please solve the game for posterity.

All I'll say is that I believe T-Bone is a wolf, which goes without saying considering my read list from around when I hammered and then their behaviour taking a strong shift from the early game to the late when the gamestate benefits the wolves, and I know that the gamestate benefits the wolves because I'm Town and you'll see that for yourself.

Given yesterday was a chop up between two main course of myself, the entree of Enchant, with a dabble of Ranger on the side. I town-read Ranger so this has a little bit of an assumption mixed in but even if they aren't the focus was on Enchant and myself. Both town, and T-Bones attention to the game dwindled and became relatively passive which is exponentially more likely to come from a wolf given his position as there was no apparent risk to anybody else except Ranger of course near the end hence my assumption there. He then decides to throw my vote on him to the abyss because he "only believes STD genuinely thinks he is wolf" which is a snoozefest of a statement.

[JacksonVirgo]

Hey man, let me buy you a drink before you might be sent to the hellfire

I'd be down for that ;)

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, these are every post that you have made which indicates you have any suspicion of me. 4 out of 342 and three of them came today. None of them contain a reason. You mentioned ONCE yesterday that you needed to look into me more. We're still waiting. Your posts about me today are a vote, saying that I'm pocketing Ranger, and complaining that me saying your read unsubstantiated is a lie.

I'm not "pretending" your read on me is unsubstantiated. I'm bringing the receipts. By contrast you've called me town the first 18 times you mentioned me in your ISO.

Please respond to just this following question.

Where is the substance that I missed?

(I did not look for misspellings of my name so it's possible there is more but I doubt it)

Ah yes, none of those quotes contain a reason at all fr fr

You're saying that my previous reads and my post count has anything to do with my read now. I'm allowed to be wrong, and I'm allowed to not have static reads. You're contrasting things that makes zero sense to contrast.

[JacksonVirgo]

Since I am explicitly comparing JV to STD, STD has been a lot more critical of me during this game. Granted, JV explicitly townread me on Day 1 so that's not a completely fair comparison, JV shouldn't have been critical of me on Day 1 if I was a townread. But I want to make that distinction because I am saying I think STD believes his read, because there is at least something behind STD's actions that I believe.

I'm not STD, I am in a different position than STD. Just because we're acting differently doesn't mean that I am not believing my read. You just scum-read me, don't mix the two.

[JacksonVirgo]

JV shouldn't have been critical of me on Day 1 if I was a townread.

Can you elaborate on this

[JacksonVirgo]

I still don't understand how Ranger is surviving

I don’t think she’s a wolf, can you case her for me

[JacksonVirgo]

Bone, you’re the one misrepresenting me. You’re insinuating I am voting you just cuz I’m voting you. That isn’t the case, I had labelled you townie and then given the EoD I outlined the world where you’re a wolf would be if this flips green, giving loose reasoning as to why I believe that. Turned out to be true, and thus i think you’re more likely a wolf than not. I think your actions yesterday were pocketing Ranger explicitly. Given how you treated her felt unnaturally obtuse. And I brought that up. The reason I haven’t gone into too much depth is because I’m demotivated, I don’t wanna talk to the void and crave people respond back to me in a constructive manner because I don’t see that happening in this gamestate so I’ve been reluctant. I never said I full cased you or put effort in doing so because I didn’t, but you’re pretending it’s based on nothing and that I don’t believe it? That because I’m not overly vocal that I don’t believe what I say or that the though has absolutely zero thought or substance behind it. That’s the angle you went and that’s almost insulting lmao, in a fun way.

[JacksonVirgo]

JV shouldn't have been critical of me on Day 1 if I was a townread.

Can you elaborate on this

After you elaborate on the substance of your scum read please. I asked first.

Zzz

[JacksonVirgo]

Literally what? Have you read my posts at all?

[JacksonVirgo]

Ah yes thank you, was misunderstanding

[JacksonVirgo]

Yet you’re not seemingly looking at what I’m saying, in this thread

[JacksonVirgo]

Will respond in more depth soonish, am eating

[JacksonVirgo]

Hm, I think I see something that could possibly make sense if this is a genuine line of reasoning for you. Will explain later

[JacksonVirgo]

In the interim what would you consider “evidence”

[JacksonVirgo]

How confident do you think I am about you wolf?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not confident that you're wolf, but I'm seeing you as the most likely to be a wolf but as you said you agreed with me on I have to be confident or my words don't get listened to as much, and considering my stance you need that confidence or my voice gets thrown to the aether even more than it already will. Since the start of the game I pushed myself down a path and got hilariously booted up the ass with every new piece of information. My python town-read was my stronger read, it was wrong and the aftermath of that is still affecting me, the black push that got flipped completely head over tail, the HEM push who ended up masonry, etc. Just constantly having to shift my reads to the complete other side which is hilarious and I love it but it does have the consequence of throwing my confidence down the garbage disposal unit, which is impressive cuz we don't have garbage disposal units in Australia but not only my confidence but given my stronger SR just now turned out to be masonry, it's tough to bounce back and form a steady and reliable analysis of the game when every time you have to rebase yourself the rug gets pulled under you almost immediately. This isn't me trying to justify myself or complain, just explaining my pov.

I saw how you were interacting with the wagons and I thought it was suspect in the off chance I was wrong on Enchant, of which ultimately I was. I said the start of my analysis of you in that readtier post you quoted from me. It happened so I'm leaning in that world now and without cross-checking my memory with your ISO I also recalled in the moment your interaction around Ranger and how people weren't understanding their words unlike yourself. I felt that considering you were >rand mafia this felt off looking back on it. It felt overly fake and contrived and meant to make a point OR to try and make ranger think you understand them unlike others. I followed through with more "detailed" explanation of my analysis on how you interacted with the Enchant/JV wagons which you acknowledged existed but then pretended like I never did that?

[JacksonVirgo]

I value being understood or treated in a way where I feel people put the appropriate level of effort to try and understand me, if that wasn't clear

[JacksonVirgo]

I really think Ranger is town from the subtext of her analysis.

In a town-JV world, D2 is a lot like D1; all town were wagoned. JacksonVirgo, Enchant, and myself were the only wagons I saw on D2 get above two votes, so it'd mean no scum were threatened.

Ranger totally forgot that D1, scum!Python was eliminated and was not at all like D2. As scum, that would probably be more impactful for her.

Oh shit you're right, I'm even more confident now

[JacksonVirgo]

Scum can't really believe their fake reads since they know the truth.

This is true, however, experienced scum can fake believing a read and tunneling in on it, using confirmation bias as an excuse to not expose their lack of genuine thoughts on more players.

This might be unconventional but I tend to try and convince myself (and mostly succeed) that the push is genuine and try and gaslight, for lack of a better term, myself to fake that aspect of a read and it works well enough.

[JacksonVirgo]

Yo Ranger, why is your pfp chemistry stuff

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh damn, it has a lengthy backstory that's amazing. It makes so much sense now :O

[JacksonVirgo]

Aww I must have just narrowly missed T-Bone's availability

[JacksonVirgo]

if Enchant is green I'm going to put more eyes on T-Bone for not doing anything when two town wagons were in the heat the entire day.

This was me just expressing the feelings I had about you, but my focus remained on HEM and at this point it was just a thought I only just had when I went and tried putting my current thoughts on each slot after the hammer, hence the lack of clarification at the time. I also didn't feel like I wanted nor needed to since it was directly related to the outcome of the flip. Like sure, it's not all the in depth at all but it's not like it came out of nowhere. The thing I was referring to in 1498 is that maybe your expectations for what town!JV would be doing is not in line with how I'm actually feeling about the game and therefore in comparison to what you feel I should be doing is "nothing" while this is me trying my best to see things for what they are.

[JacksonVirgo]

I was trying to utilise that I did just end the day, and therefore my brain has removed the pressure of the elimination and I could think clearly hence why I started going into more depth post-hammer

[JacksonVirgo]

I really am trying!

Yeah I can feel that now, I really do appreciate it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Did you purposely make your avatar my secret metal crush?

Perhaps

Whoever doesn't have her as their secret metal crush is doing it wrong

[JacksonVirgo]

You say that you don't try and prescribe how particular players should play, which I respect if it's the case but I still feel you're doing that with me OR I'm not seeing the gamestate for what it is or a mix of both. I feel like if this is a genuine read from your perspective, it's overlooking the progression I did have on you because of the amount I posted about it which doesn't feel like it's taking me for what I'm saying but instead assuming I should be playing X way because of the post count I have (using that as one example). It doesn't feel like you're seeing me for the entirety of me, but instead seeing in the lens that's easy to push with.

Like I understand if you're not liking my shift to you because it's based on little, because realistically it is based on little, but you're saying I haven't said anything about it? Which like am I just misjudging what I am doing, or are you not reading what I'm saying? I don't really get it

[JacksonVirgo]

you're saying I haven't said anything about it prior to you asking me*

[JacksonVirgo]

I think I've played with JV before and remember them saying that their emotional game is good. Don't have a quote to back that up, unfortunately.

I don't remember ever saying that

[JacksonVirgo]

Since you're giving him hope, let me return the L-1.

cruel

[JacksonVirgo]

Yeah I tend to agree

[JacksonVirgo]

Your boy is here

[JacksonVirgo]

I would be shocked if Nae/Jackson doesn't contain one scum at least

Just because you scum-read the both of us or is there more to it

[JacksonVirgo]

If I'm going to be tomorrows elim if I live, I'd rather just die now cuz I don't think I'll be as active as I want to be and to counter this position I gotta be a pro gamer girl and perform a miracle

[JacksonVirgo]

Jeez, Jack comes out of the shadows and now drew runs away

Sad JV is sad

[JacksonVirgo]

And if I flip Town, what's your thoughts on Naerys' actions?

[JacksonVirgo]

Or if she flips town, what's your thoughts on me

[JacksonVirgo]

Also would you not expect wolves to commit to the bus at this point given I was a wolf?

[JacksonVirgo]

Pre Edit: Honestly, doesn't change much.....why would town remove their vote from you to self vote?

Why would scum remove their vote from the likely elim to self-vote? Naerys self-voting in your logic seems to be linked to believing me as a wolf, yet you're voting her and not me. "Lets see who flips what" no, that's not what I am asking. I don't trust the thought process you have, I need you to elaborate on it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Counterpoint, scum didn't want to buss and realized you were at E-1 after the VC

Yeah so your read on Naerys is directly linked to scum-reading me, yet you're voting there and not me. Are you trying to set up a chain-lim?

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Drew

This feels better

[JacksonVirgo]

Goddamn it

[JacksonVirgo]

Didn't I just say I find it likely you are both scum?

Yes, and I don't believe you

or

I feel like the reasoning towards you voting Naerys here over myself is clouded through the read on me. I don't believe you can realistically make the argument you did without assuming that it's because of some form of interaction with me, which you said multiple times yet keep ignoring. Referring to these quotes in particular

Spoiler: Quote List

Especially when Jackson was at E-1, you take your vote off of him because Bone votes you?

Feels like she felt safe by self voting to save you.

I mean, I don't think she was expecting more votes on her

Counterpoint, scum didn't want to buss and realized you were at E-1 after the VC

[JacksonVirgo]

You make the argument that it's AtE yes, which I disagree with so maybe that's making the other points you're making weighted worse but I see you link the interaction between Naerys and myself to a higher degree, or at least you're saying it more than you're not, and thus voting Naerys over me feels like you're trying to set up two mislims.

[JacksonVirgo]

And where's the scum motivation? Just trying out an AtE instead of sticking to the push on me?

[JacksonVirgo]

Why are you thinking Nae is a mislim?

I town-read them, and even without that I am clearly making the assumption here that if you are a wolf they would be one. I don't like you framing it like this

[JacksonVirgo]

Saying that last bit actually makes me think it is more likely Nae than you, Jackson.

Can you also elaborate on this?

[JacksonVirgo]

You seem apprehensive to say that

[JacksonVirgo]

But humouring what you said, do I think that would look good for Naerys? I don't think it would look good per se but the question is does Naerys think it would look good. Which like, sure?

[JacksonVirgo]

I think Naerys would much more likely stick to the wagon on me

[JacksonVirgo]

I think Naerys would much more likely stick to the wagon on me

Especially considering she can throw the "blame" onto HEM who is the mason strongarming this push, and will be dead so can't argue against it

[JacksonVirgo]

Saying that last bit actually makes me think it is more likely Nae than you, Jackson.

Can you also elaborate on this?

[JacksonVirgo]

Making lunch will get back to you, answer that one tho in the meantime please

[JacksonVirgo]

Why does she hop off at this point??

I don't know, but I don't see it as scum motivated like you do

[JacksonVirgo]

Making lunch will get back to you, answer that one tho in the meantime please

Also question for you when you get back, since you are now voting me.

If you are town and were about to be a mislim, what scum motivation would I have to vote Nae here?

I already said why, I think you're trying to set up two mislims. I honestly feel I'm inevitably going to be eliminated, it feels like it has to happen and I'm sure many people agree with me on this (I don't like it but who would?). Naerys is typically a linked read with me, taking into consideration your words around our slots and then Ranger being conf-bias tunnelled as well. If I go out first, it will be harder (not saying impossible) to set up the Naerys elimination after but if Naerys goes first, you can always jump back on my isolated actions such as my hard defence of Python etc. It feels like it's massively scum motivated and doesn't read to me as a genuine though process, it reeks of agenda and I don't like it

[JacksonVirgo]

As scum I just want the mislim, then go from there. Keep it simple and day by day......especially if i would be so close to victory.

So convincing lmao

[JacksonVirgo]

It can't be neither. I would think "not town motivated implies scum" is a lot more likely than "not scum motivated implies town". This is a very illogical point to try to make.

How about you don't try and frame a philosophical disagreement as illogical. Wolves and town run on differently established axioms, I believe those to be for scum they need to not die and then kill town. Town has they need to find and kill wolves. Argue the specifics of these if you wish to.

In this particular setup scum have a very clear directive, they know who the people are they need to kill off (especially now with all the masons either dead or claimed) and they know the people who they don't want to kill off. Town does not have this same clear directive as they do not know who they need to be killing off, they need to discover them over time.

Therefore actions made by Town are not always apparent to be pro-town or motivated by an obvious "town perspective" because that town perspective can be much wider and thus loose and gives town more freedom to do what they please. Scum have axioms that are much more static and built around survival than the town's and therefore it's a much more reliable tell to search for whether something has scum motivation as opposed to town motivation to gauge the relative "towniness" a particular person has.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am not necessarily saying that lack of scum motivation is townie, I'm saying it's NAI

[JacksonVirgo]

In this circumstance anyway

[JacksonVirgo]

My thing with Jackson is I know he's a really good scum player. It feels like he's saying townie things and using good logic but I know he's capable of doing that as scum because he just did it in a game that ended recently. The townie stuff is just not really changing my mind at all. I don't think we can let Jackson get to ELO

Lmfao, suffering from success. I agree with your conclusion though, the town has too much dissonance my slot will always be a major point of discussion and I don’t want that in ELO so unless that dissonance can be resolved (challenge level: impossible) I need to sleep with the fishies