Open 697: Tit for Tat GAME OVER SCUM WINS!

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guyy
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Post Post #600  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:28 pm

willing to switch to kop for today

Mulch
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Post Post #601  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:41 pm

VOTE: Kop
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Srceenplay
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Post Post #602  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:37 pm

The swing. I don't like it. Its scumy. I'm just not sure were yet.
"A man can not be too careful on the choices of his enemies." Oscar Wilde

Lang Buddha
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Post Post #603  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:10 am

It would be extra stupid not to mass claim, man. So what exactly are the disadvantages of the advantages I laid out in #512 and #523 which warrant assuming the disadvantages of not mass-claiming, ah? And maybe you should start voting officially on it like I do
HURT: Kop
That's
  • Code: Select all
    [hurt]Kop[/hurt] - for a mass claim
  • Code: Select all
    [hurt2]Kop[/hurt2] against a mass claim

Lang Buddha
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Post Post #604  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:19 am

In post 518, ironstove wrote:regarding mass claim: it seems like a bad idea

currently 2 mafia, 3 town PRs, and 4 vanilla left in the game for a total of 9 players.

the mafia will most likely claim VT, and that leaves 6 players that will be claiming VT, of which 2 are fake.

advantage: we can narrow down our decision to find mafia to a 50/50

disadvantage: all PRs have been outed, mafia will night kill a PR, whereas it would be at best 50/50 otherwise for mafia to kill a PR if they guessed randomly for a night kill.

considerations: if we were going to mass claim, I would recommend that PRs simply claim they are a PR and not a specific PR.

This can't be it, man. We a PR which might block the actions of the other two and we have a PR which could kill any other PR, and we have a PR that could waste his check on the target that that PR kills. Advantage 1: This doesn't happen. Advantage 2: mafia can't fake claim EoD and instigate chaos. Advantage 3: narrower lynch spectrum. Advantage 4: Extra information due to confirmed alignment (IC) of 3 players, not to mention myself. Advantage 5: narrower night action spectrum for PRs. Advantage 6: coordination of PR night action so that they don't overlap. Advantage 7: No post-game ridicule by the entirety of the site's members for town players. Advantage 8: Hellooo? Nibbles .. wtf, man?!

Lang Buddha
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Post Post #605  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:30 am

The only compelling reason not to do this is because it's a dick move, somewhat a hit under the belt but hey, mafia have themselves to blame for raising that belt up to their necks, alright? I mean in the last game I played I got lynched because someone figured the lack of a night kill was due to inactivity during the silent night phase, and since he didn't see a player post anywhere on the site he figured it was mafia and he turned out to mafia, so, you know, not much to do with scumhunting in-game..

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Post Post #606  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:32 am

EBWOP: first game, and I was lynched subsequently, given the same reasoning, whatever man.

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Post Post #607  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:37 am

Advantage 7: Strong town circle will get us motivated to scumhunt, instead of the stuff going on in the first 3 posts of this page. Advantage 8: synergy of all previously mentioned advantages

Srceenplay
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Post Post #608  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:00 am

@MOD. V/LA until Monday .
Going on small vacation with family. Not sure what internet connection will be. I'll try to check in.

Im ok with Mass claim.
"A man can not be too careful on the choices of his enemies." Oscar Wilde

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Post Post #609  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:11 am

Votecount

LangBuddha (3): Kop, KunkStar, Flubbernugget
Flubbernugget (2): Guyy, Srceenplay
Ironstove (1): LangBuddha
Kop (2): IronStove, Mulch

Not voting (1): Not_Mafia

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline: (expired on 2017-09-25 07:38:51)

Let me know if there are any errors in the VC!
Not_Mafia has been prodded
Mod Note: Ironstove replaces Sesq and Not_Mafia replaces Wavemode!
Im a dog that quacks

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Post Post #610  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:18 am

Ok from that perspective I can get behind a mass claim under the condition that prs only claim they are a pr and we do a popcorn mass claim I. E. We pick one person to claim first and that person then picks the next person and so fourth until all players have claimed.

But with that said I STILL think mass claiming is a bad play versus simply playing this game. If our vigi shoots again and shoots another town again, then this game is on the vigi for playing like trash and I don't really care because there is nothing I could do about it.

I refuse to choose suboptimal play routes in order to compensate and adapt to someone playing bad. It is not something I'm willing to do.

Like, the mass claim isn't happening today, maybe tomorrow but it's not happening today and you're literally wasting everyone's time constantly fly pushing for it because it does absolutely nothing to solve the game. It only takes us from one state filled with unknowns to another state filled with different unknowns.

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Post Post #611  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:25 am

lynch this with fire.

Kop
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Post Post #612  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:53 am

I don't know right now, I have seen this happen before but in different circumstances. Mafia lost there backup jailkeeper leaving them with the rolecop and a suggestion that the backup rolecop came out as it was apparently pointless being hidden, so someone came out with being the backup role cop, and I counter claimed it as I was BRC, I got him lynched and he flipped the mafia Rolecop. Leaving the goon in play and LYLO. The person who suggested the coming out was the goon knowing that he can't be found out because he would investigate as vanilla to the real BRC.

I just have a feeling this is a similar scenario, mafia are trying to get roles out in the open and knowing where to shoot because they've lost a role that would help them gather the information that they are now trying to manipulate into the thread without trying to look scummy in the process.
You're a very good liar. But I've seen better.

guyy
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Post Post #613  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:52 am

VOTE: kop

although the last post is a good one

i'm currently torn on massclaim

i'm inclined to say if we do, we claim in this order:

kop
flubber
sesq
lang
kunk
whoever else

Kop
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Post Post #614  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:21 am

@mod

V/LA till Sunday. Away from tonight till Sunday.
You're a very good liar. But I've seen better.

kunkstar7
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Post Post #615  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.
Welcome to the Network.

Not_Mafia
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Post Post #616  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:34 pm

VOTE: Lang Buddha

Reason: Jealousy
Stomp/Attract/Milk Drink/Rollout

Lang Buddha
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Post Post #617  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:36 pm

Flubber, does this^ entertain you?

guyy
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Post Post #618  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:12 pm

In post 616, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: Lang Buddha

Reason: Jealousy


this is L-1 and a terrible vote

can you please at the very least elaborate

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Post Post #619  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:16 pm

WhemeStar is going on vacation. I will probably be taking over during this time.
♫ Where words fail, music speaks ♫

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Post Post #620  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:17 pm

In post 616, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: Lang Buddha

Reason: Jealousy


Is it still RVS?

Lang Buddha
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Post Post #621  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:28 pm

In post 612, Kop wrote:I just have a feeling this is a similar scenario, mafia are trying to get roles out in the open and knowing where to shoot because they've lost a role that would help them gather the information that they are now trying to manipulate into the thread without trying to look scummy in the process.


If you feel like the only role left for you to play if you give me the due credit is the fool, man, and I'm not necessarily talking to Kop now, know that you can only be the fool if you don't. You can rise to the level of not a dumbass anytime, just stop being one, you know? Yes you've been one but that can be twisted into appearing as though you're reaction testing, and all will be forgotten, eh?

Maybe you even get to brag post-game, even belittle my gameplay .. you know, the standard lecture based on the premise that anyone who wishes to be heard needs to act in a manner you perceive as townie.. i get it, alright? There's no other way for you to save face, and the more ppl say it the more you can mindfuck yourself into believing it man, and they like to see you become mindfucked, man, they really do, BUT know that dumb ppl are fun for anyone but me, man, I've seen it all over the world: people like fail compilations.

I believe somewhere, in your mind, you know there is a place, a temple of intelligence and harmony with awesomeness, a-ha, where they don't let bitches who don't want to comprehend a simple truth even if they get chaperoned through all of its facets stay there, because it would start to stink like the rest of the places. I'll be waiting for you at the gate, man, as long as it takes, I promise.

Just vote for a mass claim man, whoever you are, whoever you're voting for, whatever you think you're getting out of forfeiting a massive advantage -- it's not even that, it's that you act like you don't, man, that's driving me to tell you how dumb you are again and again -- in a mafia game and keeping me from hunting scum and telling you to wake the fuck up, you now? It's all there, man, all the arguments, everything, clean, sexy and surgical, man. Like this choreography, eh?

In post 615, kunkstar7 wrote:Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.

In some convoluted way this guy wants to give the impression that it's ok not to consider my input on the matter, man. As if someone had totally ignored all my posts and asked him for guidance, him..

Why do people with superlative fakking unlikelihood to be regarded as leaders, the maddafakkas who are objectively lacking the quality to do any good and abstaining from doing harm, THOSE are the bitches in need to act like they represent someone other than themselves, man? WTF, why?! Sabotage the optimal town play, bitch, but don't make it look like someone forces you to or it's someone else's idea, or some ridiculous consensus you need to solidify inside- or push through anyone's mental barriers, like someone totally ignored all my posts and is begging you to provide much needed guidance, so you can make it look like it's ok for you to ignore them, eh?

FoS kunkstar7

guyy
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Post Post #622  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:30 pm

In post 615, kunkstar7 wrote:Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.



here's the thing though

not everyone has to claim

some of the more obvious town players (group A) can be exempt from this, as well as the players we're not really trying to focus on now but who still might be scum. right now that means guyy, mulch, srceenplay

this offers a large enough buffer i think (1/3 of the players) that scum still has to do a bit of guesswork. this is probably fine for two reasons:
1. we're a little overpowered here atm
2. it obfuscates exactly what information scum is getting and allows PRs to draw some conclusions that scum might not be able to just yet

the following players (group B) should, if claiming, only claim PR or not PR:
lang
kunk
not_mafia

the following (group C) should fullclaim:
flubber
kop
ironstove

i find it at least noteworthy that the most suspect (group C) are the ones fighting hardest against a massclaim. even if the points made there are viable or even good, i don't think they're coming from town

lang is right that this sort of strategy, while possibly helping scum, vastly reduces the odds of town PRs fucking up


a PR outside of group A is probably looking to target within group B or C anyway, so this will help narrow that down. specifically, i'd expect vig to target within C, rolecop to target within B, and jailkeeper to target within B or C

scum is likely looking to target within group A (i'd think)

thinking about it this way, i think it benefits town much more than it benefits scum. keep in mind that the goal of scum is not simply to eliminate all town PRs but to win the game. a part of this is getting rid of largely townread players (group A). imo that is often more important than them eliminating PRs. the only exception is that they're likely trying to find jailkeeper pretty hard. generally, though, i think group C not being entirely genuine and is playing to our fears of:
1. lang being scum
2. losing PRs

but we should keep in mind that losing PRs from town fuckups is less likely if we are strategic about it in some way. we do not have to tell scum everything

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Post Post #623  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:39 pm

If I had not proposed the mass claim I guess some fear of me being scum, regardless of how unlikely it would've been even then, would've been warranted, man.

Lang Buddha
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Post Post #624  (ISO)  » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:41 pm

In post 622, guyy wrote:even if the points made there are viable or even good

Are you fucking kidding me here, man?

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