Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[Maxous]

Again, Athena's focus is overly narrow imo.
She focuses on Errant and only focuses on others when directly asked. Same behaviour on Day 2.

I'm okay with this lynch, I think it's the right choice.

[Thor665]

I don't think it was a question of reason – I don't think EP was even around for that wagon in the first place.

He was absolutely around, he just didn't comment on the wagon at all.

Max is a gut townread to me. If he's scum he's been playing a very nonchalant game for having both of his partners lynched one after the other. More than that, he has some comments in his ISO regarding HWS!scum and tex!scum that really don't seem to come from a partner:

Two questions naturally seem to stem up from this;

1. How is Max 'nonchalant' and EP is 'not nonchalant'? COuld I get a short list of who isn't being nonchalant and a description of how they're being nonchalant? (this feels like bogus reasoning to me so I want to understand it better or be able to showcase your inability to describe it in order to attack you)

2. I note you touting a number of examples of Max listing Tex and HWS as scumreads Day 1 as a reason not to scumread him.
I'll note that, despite these reads, he wasn't ever *voting* either of those slots. He was voting EP. How does that affect/not affect your read of him?

love to hear people thoughts on Klick scum?

I currently spit mockingly on the idea that Klick is scum.

[Flubbernugget]

I picked up my prod. Very happy with the state of the game. Not much to say considering my desired lynch is going through.

[Beefster]

Personally, I feel like this is reaching. D1 is usually a shot in the dark. There were a lot of other players he didn't really mention on D1. This looks like cherry picking.

I am not faulting him for simply not mentioning texcat enough on day one – I'm saying that the one mention he had of texcat was superficial. How is that "cherry picking"?

Because that kind of superficial interaction is common in general. Lots of people ignored texcat on D1, myself included. It's cherry picking to single out EP for this.

What kind of scum derails a mislynch to bus? That is the dumbest possible strategy.

You're not getting what I'm saying. EP wasn't "derailing" the texcat wagon to bus – he was hopping off of it to have his vote on a scumbuddy when the day ended (in the moz lynch). Nothing about it is a dumb strategy in the slightest – I'd say it's a fairly good strategy.

Why not just fence-sit the moz mislynch? Why would he be so aggressive toward texcat?

Your logic doesn't add up. Aggressive bussing is actually a terrible strategy. Going out of your way to make sure you have a vote on a scumpartner you don't intend to lynch is silly. Aggressive bussing usually comes back to bite you in the ass.

I don't see how this scum!EP tex bus makes any sense. It's a dumb move because WIFOM and bussing almost always comes back to bite you in the butt. EP is clearly not this stupid... We could get into WIFOM here, but we have room for 2 mislynches and I'd say EP's third on the chopping block anyway.

More votes on COA.

"Because WIFOM"? I don't think you actually understood what I was saying.

The only reason to bus is because you think that nobody else would do it, when it's actually one of the first "sneaky" things people think of. Most people who bus do so badly. Most of the time it backfires at some point. Add to that the consequences of being down one mafioso and you realize that bussing isn't all that clever.

If scum!EP is employing WIFOM-based bussing, it will bite him in the ass before he has a chance to win.

[Beefster]

Basically, I reject your EP case because it revolves around a bus move that is actually really stupid and is basically a guaranteed loss.

[mozamis]

I don't think it was a question of reason – I don't think EP was even around for that wagon in the first place.

He was absolutely around, he just didn't comment on the wagon at all.

Max is a gut townread to me. If he's scum he's been playing a very nonchalant game for having both of his partners lynched one after the other. More than that, he has some comments in his ISO regarding HWS!scum and tex!scum that really don't seem to come from a partner:

Two questions naturally seem to stem up from this;

1. How is Max 'nonchalant' and EP is 'not nonchalant'? COuld I get a short list of who isn't being nonchalant and a description of how they're being nonchalant? (this feels like bogus reasoning to me so I want to understand it better or be able to showcase your inability to describe it in order to attack you)

2. I note you touting a number of examples of Max listing Tex and HWS as scumreads Day 1 as a reason not to scumread him.
I'll note that, despite these reads, he wasn't ever *voting* either of those slots. He was voting EP. How does that affect/not affect your read of him?

love to hear people thoughts on Klick scum?

I currently spit mockingly on the idea that Klick is scum.

yes, me too. he didnt vote when i wanted that Cult lynch to go through, and that had me worried for a second.
But yeah, he's town. No scum motivation fo rhim changing his vote from Max to EP like that.
yes, we all know your upset because i voted you a while ago -try and get over it for gods sake and stop being rude.

[mozamis]

I think lynching Cult is a mistake I have meta on her, and she is kinda defensive as town anyway, and unemotional.
She may not have done a ton of scum hunting this game, but she's done more than EP.
Plus, i feel her responses to pressure have actually been pretty good.

[mozamis]

If we were in the dead thread, we would all be saying "HOW IS EP STILL ALIVE".
It's ludicrous.

[mozamis]

EP isn't at all acting like he believes that my lynch ends the game. Compare his last post and vote on me to moz or to Beefster and they way they've gone about this.

The intent behind my line of questions to Athena: as third scum getting lynched ends the game. Third scum would not be willing to get lynched under any circumstance. Town might be willing to get lynched, especially if they thought that it would result in a gamewinning lynch for town next day. I would have actually thought that this line of questioning was obvious enough (RC did something similar to me in Space Invaders I think) and I expected for Athena to say something like "yeah I'd be willing to get lynched but I'd rather just lynch you now first" or something like that. Unsure what to make of her response.

I think I've only ever seen people say that they'd be willing to get shot or to get vigged as scum trying to act nonchalant. The question also feels like a no win situation – say "yes" and people just lynch me. Say "no" and I get called the last scum to concerned about the game ending.

Exactly - that game were in Cult, when Scumcyfly kep t saying "Lynch me, lynch me!".
Town hate getting lynched.

[mozamis]

anyway, gamne solved. EP is scum.
Trust the guy that gave you Hewho and Tex, and vote EP!

[mozamis]

it's nice when the fog clears

[mozamis]

Basically, I reject your EP case because it revolves around a bus move that is actually really stupid and is basically a guaranteed loss.

I dont think it was stupid, i suspect he was surprised how quickly the Tex wagon went down.
I've just looked at it again, and if you go back to it, he voted Tex early. Then my wagon took off, he stayed on Tex. Then the tex wagon happened quickly. He probably just "froze" -as scum often do, scum dont like changing their vote that much, it always draws attention (or they are paranoid that it will draw attention).
You can understand it - if he had unvoted, and tex was lynched, it would have looked bad for him.

[Thor665]

yes, we all know your upset because i voted you a while ago -try and get over it for gods sake and stop being rude.

Considering the things you're complaining aboutme being 'rude' about are me noting how 'meh' your CoA case was, and now you're touting that CoA is obv. town and that EP needs to be lynched I would think you'd be a bit more mindful of me describing your cases as bad, because I appear to be correct from your current point of view.

I'm sorry that I keep pointing out your cases are bad?

How do you see EP scum working exactly?
He looked like a heavily chosen mislynch option for Tex.

[Thor665]

That leaves CofA, EP, HeWhoSwims in the null, but probably town category.

Just as an argument for both CoA and EP being town.
What are the odds he tosses both his scumbuddies into this pool?

[Thor665]

Leaves at null: ErrantP, texcat, Klick, and Thor, but apparently we need to read Thor as... Thor.

If EP is scum, then *both* of his buddies tossed *both* of their buddies into their initial null pile.
...seems unlikely to me.

[mozamis]

I think we should be ok. I mean we have 3 lynches, is that right?
So worse case:
We mislynch Cult today. Then it'll either be me or Ep tomorrow. If i'm mislynched, surely to god people will then lynch him lol
Be quicker to win today tho lol

[mozamis]

But it's always dangerous to be complacent, never quite know whats gonna happen. Just lynch EP today and its game over.

[mozamis]

@ Thor - you were being rude about "spitting mockingly". I know you are still wetting yourself because i suspected you awhile ago.
Just get over it.
Ep was one of your suspects a while ago, so you know why he is scum.
As for Cult - yes i changed my mind. You should try it sometime -then you might not spend the whole game tunnelling the IC and town next time LOL

[Thor665]

I understand why EP can potentially be a scumspect - but then I ruled him out for reasons I explained.
If you're ruling him back in then you ought to be able to explain *why* you're ruling him back in.
Want to try that, or just keep up a dick measuring contest you're fated to lose?

[Beefster]

We'll get to EP later if COA flips town. Unless scum is in Klick, Thor665, moz, or myself, we have nothing to worry about.

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Pagetop