Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[Thor665]

From what I can remember I had Beef as my top TR. I also had Town leans on Thor, N_M & TGP.

I like these reads except for N_M - I would say he's literally done *nothing* alignment indicative.
How in the world is he a town lean?

[Almost50]

I usually soul read N_M. Granted I was wrong about him in one recent game (and the other HE messed it up), but generally speaking I kinda can tell his scum lurking from his Town lurking, and his wilky push feels like his Town tunnel game.

[Thor665]

If it's a soul read why is it only a lean?

[wilky]

What's a soul read?

[Almost50]

If it's a soul read why is it only a lean?

Because I -obviously- can't provide you with hard evidence! And -as I said- I was WRONG about him in a recent game where THREE TOWNIES (including myself) defended him and he flipped Scum so it's not 100%

[Thor665]

If it's a soul read why is it only a lean?

Because I -obviously- can't provide you with hard evidence! And -as I said- I was WRONG about him in a recent game where THREE TOWNIES (including myself) defended him and he flipped Scum so it's not 100%

The evidence bit doesn't have anything to do with anything, right?

[mutantdevle]

Votecount 1.5

(3)

Almost50 - voted by: Espeonage, wilky, Montosh.

(3)

Thor665 - voted by: skitter30, Dr Fanta, Korina.

(3)

Korina - voted by: Almost50, LaserGuy, Beefster.

(2)

wilky - voted by: TheGoldenParadox, Not_Mafia.

(1)

skitter30 - voted by: Thor665.

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for a majority. Only 6 votes are needed for a no lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-03-01 17:30:00)

[Almost50]

The evidence bit doesn't have anything to do with anything, right?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Like "I have a Town READ on N_M" .. "Why?" .. "Because I

feel

his play is Town" .. "Awrright! I agree then!" (????)

My definition of a "Town Read": Someone I will DEFEND all the way and will probably SR those who push 'em.

My definition of a "Town Lean": Someone I wouldn't be voting myself, but I understand if someone else wants them lynched and won't fight it back tooth and nail because I don't have a good argument aside from my own feelings about the slot.

And while at it..

Scum Lean: someone I suspect but don't really have a case, so I'm willing to join their wagon if someone else has a case

Scum Read: I am convinced this is scum and won't be listening to anyone else's opinion on he matter

[wilky]

i'm going to VOTE: korina

Korina is my other scum read and I want to give almost50 a chance to redeem from bujaber's poor play

[Thor665]

The evidence bit doesn't have anything to do with anything, right?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Like "I have a Town READ on N_M" .. "Why?" .. "Because I

feel

his play is Town" .. "Awrright! I agree then!" (????)

My definition of a "Town Read": Someone I will DEFEND all the way and will probably SR those who push 'em.

My definition of a "Town Lean": Someone I wouldn't be voting myself, but I understand if someone else wants them lynched and won't fight it back tooth and nail because I don't have a good argument aside from my own feelings about the slot.

And while at it..

Scum Lean: someone I suspect but don't really have a case, so I'm willing to join their wagon if someone else has a case

Scum Read: I am convinced this is scum and won't be listening to anyone else's opinion on he matter

Have you ever explained this read methodology in any other game?

[skitter30]

One - that you know is town level, and this one, that you believe is scum level.

I think that there's a difference between agressively asking questions and framing conflicts as a direct 1v1. Like look at the two posts you linked me. You didn't do the latter there.

I think you're doing the same thing with me as you did with paradox. You're perpetuating the conflict and and people are taking sides ('I think the argument is tvt', or tvs or whatever people are saying), and when you don't like their stance, you're grilling them on it in an attempt to get them to change their minds. You do it with Montosh on the previous page or whatever.

The former is an attempt to understand others' POV. THe latter is an attempt to perpetuate an argument in order to encourage other people to pick sides in an argument you think that you've won.

Do that and we can drop everything else, even though I will consider it a strategic drop on your part.

Are you like trying to antagonize me on purpose? This isn't like a strategic withdrawal. I'm not conceding anything. I still strongly believe you're scum and that you've misrepped me.

At the same time, I think that going through the motions of continuing this argument is a fruitless endeavor because I don't think either of us are going to back down at this point.

Like who's the audience for this argument even? I don't think either of us are going to change our respective opinions of the other and many of the other players have admitted to not reading our posts. On a very basic level, it's anti-town and making the thread difficult for people to read, and my two biggest townreads are asking me to stop.

I feel like you're deliberately trying to draw me and other people back into this.

I think that this argument should be dropped now tbh. I don't think it's accomplishing anything.

[skitter30]

If it's a soul read why is it only a lean?

Because I -obviously- can't provide you with hard evidence! And -as I said- I was WRONG about him in a recent game where THREE TOWNIES (including myself) defended him and he flipped Scum so it's not 100%

Imo I think he's exhibiting incredibly similar behavior to that game and so I don't really get why you think his tunnel on wilky here differs from his tunnel on yankee/sky there.

I would be very willing to pl him.

[Almost50]

The evidence bit doesn't have anything to do with anything, right?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Like "I have a Town READ on N_M" .. "Why?" .. "Because I

feel

his play is Town" .. "Awrright! I agree then!" (????)

My definition of a "Town Read": Someone I will DEFEND all the way and will probably SR those who push 'em.

My definition of a "Town Lean": Someone I wouldn't be voting myself, but I understand if someone else wants them lynched and won't fight it back tooth and nail because I don't have a good argument aside from my own feelings about the slot.

And while at it..

Scum Lean: someone I suspect but don't really have a case, so I'm willing to join their wagon if someone else has a case

Scum Read: I am convinced this is scum and won't be listening to anyone else's opinion on he matter

Have you ever explained this read methodology in any other game?

No one ever asked the way you do, so NO.

[Almost50]

Imo I think he's exhibiting incredibly similar behavior to that game and so I don't really get why you think his tunnel on wilky here differs from his tunnel on yankee/sky there.

Check again, and you might see a slight difference. Also check the other game I played with him between that game and this one (He was the Town Doctor, and I mislynched him bc .. oh, well.. go read D2 yourself. It's a very short read.)

[Thor665]

One - that you know is town level, and this one, that you believe is scum level.

I think that there's a difference between agressively asking questions and framing conflicts as a direct 1v1. Like look at the two posts you linked me. You didn't do the latter there.

I think you're doing the same thing with me as you did with paradox. You're perpetuating the conflict and and people are taking sides ('I think the argument is tvt', or tvs or whatever people are saying), and when you don't like their stance, you're grilling them on it in an attempt to get them to change their minds. You do it with Montosh on the previous page or whatever.

The former is an attempt to understand others' POV. THe latter is an attempt to perpetuate an argument in order to encourage other people to pick sides in an argument you think that you've won.

I note a strong lack of examples here.

I would note that what you're describing as my scum play here is exactly how I would describe my play against you in that game.
How do you not?

[skitter30]

Imo I think he's exhibiting incredibly similar behavior to that game and so I don't really get why you think his tunnel on wilky here differs from his tunnel on yankee/sky there.

Check again, and you might see a slight difference. Also check the other game I played with him between that game and this one (He was the Town Doctor, and I mislynched him bc .. oh, well.. go read D2 yourself. It's a very short read.)

OK, what's that slight difference?

I read through that day2 and I don't really see how it's relevant to this discussion? Yes you mislynched him, but it looks like you did that there because you thought he was fake-claiming. I'm saying I think popping in occasoinally to ask people to vote wilky is similar to how he behaved day 1 in math's game where he popped in occasionally to tell people to vote sky.

[Not_Mafia]

Okay but wilky is scum

[skitter30]

I note a strong lack of examples here.

I would note that what you're describing as my scum play here is exactly how I would describe my play against you in that game.
How do you not?

Yeah, no. I've described my position as best as I can and I don't really know how else to say it at this point. I don't think that continuing this is useful.

[Almost50]

He ONLY popped out to say "yankee is scum" over and over again when he was scum. when he is town he still tunnels but adds "other reads". For example; here he has Montosh as a 2nd SR, and in that game he was tunneling Dino but also had Jay in his view, and later had Vax too. (He was correct about both Dino and Jay not being Town).

The only thing that may look suspicious here is him calling on the WWs to shoot Thor, which "could" be interpreted as him knowing Thor isn't a WW himself (i.e. N_M is a WW) OR N_M is Mafia and knows Thor not to be on the team. However, I', well used to N_M being his weird, so I -at least- want to keep him around for a couple of days before I reevaluate based on flips and associative tells.

[Not_Mafia]

wilky/Montosh/Korina/Dr Fanta are in my scum pool

I forgot LaserGuy and Espe were in the game

[Not_Mafia]

Last scum LaserGuy or Espe because I forgot their posts or Thor because I haven't read any of his posts

[Beefster]

i'm going to VOTE: korina

Korina is my other scum read and I want to give almost50 a chance to redeem from bujaber's poor play

I agree with this sentiment.

I wish I had more to contribute right now. Just not seeing much progression atm. :-/

[Beefster]

Last scum LaserGuy or Espe because I forgot their posts or Thor because I haven't read any of his posts

Out of those 3 options, I'd put Espeonage on my scum list.

[LaserGuy]

@skitter, @thor

I think you are both Town, but I am seriously contemplating pushing for a policy lynch on one of you at this point in time just so we won't have to put up with you bickering for the rest of the game. You are aren't getting anywhere and are making the thread more difficult to read and keep up with. Please move on.

We are getting somewhere.

Also, what else would you like to see addressed?

Other than skitter, who are your scumreads?

[Thor665]

I note a strong lack of examples here.

I would note that what you're describing as my scum play here is exactly how I would describe my play against you in that game.
How do you not?

Yeah, no. I've described my position as best as I can and I don't really know how else to say it at this point. I don't think that continuing this is useful.

You literally haven't described the position.
And you literally have an entire game where you know I'm town to use as an example to illustrate differences with.

Remember when you told me your scum game involved you running away from explanation because you didn't have an answer?

@skitter, @thor

I think you are both Town, but I am seriously contemplating pushing for a policy lynch on one of you at this point in time just so we won't have to put up with you bickering for the rest of the game. You are aren't getting anywhere and are making the thread more difficult to read and keep up with. Please move on.

We are getting somewhere.

Also, what else would you like to see addressed?

Other than skitter, who are your scumreads?

Korina.
There is also a large pool of 'happy to lynch' that would include the people not actually participating, like Fanta, N_M, and Espe, but that both begins and ends my ability to describe why they're scum.
After that it's going to be more about flips, because there are too many soft town reads that are clearly wrong.