Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!

FancyPants
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Post Post #175  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:04 am

Not seeing the Alisae or Grey wagons, they could be scum, but I don't find the cases on them particularly compelling. I like Alisae more for town, some genuine desire to scum hunt from her. Grey may have shown good logic, but if logic was a yardstick for scumminess this game would be a lot easier, Grey is more on the null side for me.

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Post Post #176  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:06 am

CMM maybe. Personally I'm tone townreading him. Your reason to suspect SS is terrible though.
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Post Post #177  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:11 am

In post 176, Antihuman wrote:CMM maybe. Personally I'm tone townreading him. Your reason to suspect SS is terrible though.

No it isn't. I always struggle to post more when I'm scum. I've found a lot of scum lay low until they have pressure on them, and only post when under pressure.

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Post Post #178  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:17 am

And I've found out a lot of scum disappear when under pressure and only post when not pressured. Wanna argue?
Not posting at all isn't "laying low". On the contrary- it makes you stand out more cause people like you like to go for such low-hanging fruit. I'm willing to bet SS is just overgamed.
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Post Post #179  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:24 am

Well if you remember the last game we played together - viewtopic.php?f=52&t=68429
Literally the most inactive players in the early game were all scum. I know one game isn't any indication of anything but I've found a similar trend in the other games I've played as well.

It may be sub-optimal play but it makes sense both from a strategic and a personal level for scum, firstly the less you post the less likely it is that town will catch you, and secondly from a personal level it is the difference between "posting to figure out the game" and "manufacturing reads" I'd say it's hard to argue that the latter is less palatable for most.

I know it varies from player to player but I'd say there is a statistically significant difference in activity between scum and town play for most players.
So yes I do want to argue, when scum are pressured suddenly their win condition is threatened in a way it isn't when they aren't pressured.

I haven't been here for very long but it seems to me like their is a bias towards players who post more being scum and I feel the trend should be the opposite.

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Post Post #180  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:03 am

I'm not Antihero :P But I'll look into the game you linked
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Post Post #181  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:34 am

SS has posted only once, I can't see how he's scum for being inactive right now.

In post 179, FancyPants wrote:
I haven't been here for very long but it seems to me like their is a bias towards players who post more being scum and I feel the trend should be the opposite.


Do you think you're prone to being called scum cause you're active? Do you think that's what I'm doing right now?
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Post Post #182  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:58 am

In post 181, Antihuman wrote:SS has posted only once, I can't see how he's scum for being inactive right now.

In post 179, FancyPants wrote:
I haven't been here for very long but it seems to me like their is a bias towards players who post more being scum and I feel the trend should be the opposite.


Do you think you're prone to being called scum cause you're active? Do you think that's what I'm doing right now?

I did say it was partly because he posted and bailed, and partly because of PoE from my various town leanings. It's a long shot but I think it's a good shout, wouldn't be surprised to find at the end of the game 2 scum in the three people I mentioned. It's early days however.

I'm personally not prone to be called scum when I'm active and I don't think that's what you're doing either. I just think it's a trend. Basically people look for scum in the people the see in the thread, the more a person posts the more their own confirmation bias works against that person. Perhaps that's more prevalent in newbie games (where I've mostly played), but it makes sense to me.

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Post Post #183  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:00 am

In short I do think activity is town tell and inactivity is a scum tell. It's obviously doesn't apply to every player in every situation, but I would say that it is at least statistically significant for the reasons I mentioned.

Townies can be inactive because they are busy, scum can also be inactive because they are busy, but on aggregate scum have more reason, and incentive to be inactive.

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Post Post #184  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:14 am

Alright, reading up now.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

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Post Post #185  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:16 am

Activity is NAI. Just ask the mod to replace him if it keeps up.

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Post Post #186  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:42 am

Alright, couple of things from the first 4 pages (ignore if these have been responded to in later pages)

In post 61, havingfitz wrote:LUV reading the Hawk and Grey game last night where Grey was "slick scum" seems awfully coincidental.

How does that make him scum?

In post 74, Empking wrote:He looks like he's genuinely scumhunting.

What does 'genuine' scum hunting look like? And how would you differentiate that from 'fake' scum hunting?

In post 89, FancyPants wrote:OK well not much to go on thus far. Let's take a stab then.
Alisae, Havingfitz, Empking, Grey, Hawk all seem to have some vague interest in figuring out this game at least.

ConManMick and boring haven't done much. LUV I'm not sure about.
Mozamis making some really early town reads, makes me suspect he knows who town are. Surety is scummy.

Therefore I'm happy with my vote. As I said earlier wagon ho.

This is a bad post. What you have basically just done is said that you have a town feel for 5 players and yet you're voting someone for saying they're reading one person as town somewhat strongly. I find this awfully hypocritical to vote for someone who has given out one town read when you have five and this looks like one of those posts where scum be like 'Hey, look at me having lots of reads on people and engaging with the game' when actually you're not saying a whole lot. It's also ;pinging that you clearly opted to avoid using the word 'town' when referring to those 5 people and instead went with 'figuring the game out'.

In post 92, boring wrote:I'm finding FancyPants interesting too.

What does interesting mean? Scummy? Towny? What?
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Post Post #187  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:43 am

VOTE: King

In post 164, boring wrote:@LUV, the last time I played with you, your reads won the game for us. I'm interested in your ongoing opinion of the gamestate. (by the way, I know you're V/LA now, but you have a habit of "forgetting" you're in games. Please don't forget about us.)

I got really lucky that game :lol:

I currently have weak scum reads on Ali, Anti, and King.

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Post Post #188  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:01 am

In post 135, FancyPants wrote:Despite Empking's lack of posts I do feel what he has done actually seems aimed at scum hunting.

Which posts? Quote them and explain how they show scum hunting. Emp, would you agree that you have been scum hunting thus far this game?

In post 139, Hawk wrote:Fancypants I liked his post 20 and post 89. Reading that as not pro-town says he possibly wasn't super aware of the player list or at least didn't want to draw attention to that reaction test obviously like Uzi did. Not sure if this means he's town or not but at least he's not reacting too quickly.

Man, I cant disagree with this part of the post any more than I do. Scum wouldn't want to draw attention to a reaction test (in the hopes that a Mason outs themselves) and they also wouldn't want to react too quickly (scum usually let town react first to try and gauge the flow of the thread). Your town read on FP makes no sense to me at all.

In post 139, Hawk wrote:89 I like cause taking a stab at early reads when RVS is kinda naturally winding down is good for generating discussion even with soft reads. This is town to me.

He took a stab at early reads....after scum reading someone for stating an early town read. You don't have a problem with that?

In post 139, Hawk wrote:Fritz seems to genuinely trying to ScumHunt so I do like that.

Second time I have seen this - where is fitz 'genuinely' scum hunting?
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Post Post #189  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:14 am

@BlueBloodedToe, My Moz vote didn't have a lot behind it but I refuse to unvote someone who can't be bothered to engage with the game, in any case it isn't just for having those town reads. I also felt like he was fluffing his content and now he's disappeared.
As for Empking I like the last line in I think it was a good angle, I also like that he is putting pressure on people with no votes on them.

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Post Post #190  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:21 am

In post 154, Antihuman wrote:So many interesting players, this is gonna be exciting.
After an initial readup I got many townreads but some of them are slight.
Strong townreads are fitz and boring.
Townleans on Grey and Alisae.
Mixed feelings about mozamis, LUV and FP, will need more time to sort them out.

VOTE: mozamis

Very little substance in his posting, looks like coasting scum

Talk about your reads on Grey and fitz please? I'm super surprised that out of those 3 people you chose to vote for Moz. Why does scum!Moz go against the thread and start defending Alisae based on nothing?

OK, this game feels really weird and I agree with FP that I think scum are laying low.

There are so many people not scum hunting/contributing to the game that it's very difficult to form town reads.

VOTE: Grey

This game needs a serious wagon.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

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Post Post #191  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:45 am

In post 186, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 61, havingfitz wrote:LUV reading the Hawk and Grey game last night where Grey was "slick scum" seems awfully coincidental.

How does that make him scum?

I thought my post 61 laid out what I was thinking pretty clearly.

Other than the part where I don't state the conclusion that LUV is scum. Where are you getting that? Do you think LUV'S answer to Grey is legit?
Town 44-57 :: Not Town 24-12:: TBD 5
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Post Post #192  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:51 am

It doesn't stand out to me either way - and it wasn't clear why you thought that it made LUV scum for reading a game.
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Post Post #193  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:58 am

In post 192, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:why you thought that it made LUV scum

You keep saying this. Why?
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Post Post #194  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:13 am

@Toffee, I don't like summary posts from people who aren't sub-ins. It creates an illusion of participation, and it's pretty close to solidifying as a scumtell for me. So is an immediate "yup, you're town" when you voice concern about that player. It seems aimed to appease.

Through a Pants-is-scum lens, I don't see a drive to move the game forward. I see a drive to appear like he's trying.

The reason I've not moved my vote yet is the passing dismissal of my Grey post. He didn't directly argue or defend. He just implied it was overanalysed and then ignored it.

Grey, if anyone, is laying low. It's surprising that Pants as town wouldn't see that over Snowman whose one post is far more NAI.

@Antihuman, I'm noticing a communication error between us, as this is the second time I've been confused by how you've summarized or interpreted my statements. I'm not comfortable with the Moz wagon because I'm not sure yet whether he's scum or lynchbait.

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Post Post #195  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:35 am

In post 193, havingfitz wrote:
In post 192, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:why you thought that it made LUV scum

You keep saying this. Why?

If you were not implying LUV was scum with the 'awfully coincidental' comment, what was you implying?
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Post Post #196  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:35 am

@Grey, what about my posts make you think that?

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Post Post #197  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:09 am

@boring, rather.

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Post Post #198  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:15 am

In post 195, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 193, havingfitz wrote:
In post 192, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:why you thought that it made LUV scum

You keep saying this. Why?

If you were not implying LUV was scum with the 'awfully coincidental' comment, what was you implying?

I was implying/explicitly stating that LUVs comments seemed awfully coincidental and that I wanted more information on the matter...hence my questions to LUV.

LUVs response was enough to stem my curiosity fttb.

I would not say LUV is a scum read for me att....as I didn't state in post 61.
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Post Post #199  (ISO)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:35 am

VC 1.3

-Grey- (L-3) - ConManMick, boring, Hawk, BlueBloodedToffe
Alisae (L-4) - -Grey-, havingfitz, Empking
mozamis (L-5) - FancyPants, Antihuman
FancyPants (L-6) - mozamis
Empking (L-6) - Lil Uzi Vert

NV (2) - Alisae, SnarkySnowman

(expired on 2017-01-25 11:09:00)
Last edited by tojam2 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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