In post 1714, Blawb wrote:If notscience does get replaced, it's obvious that PP is the last scum
And why is that?
OK, I'll give you two time to prepare your final/closing cases. Would 48 hours suffice?
FTR, I HAVE read all thread and I HAVE reached a conclusion, but I still would like you both to tell me why it's obvious you are town and/or the other is scum.
What if I told you notscience actually lied about his night of action? It was last night and he did get a guilty on his submitted target!!
Actually, I had thought of going with this bluff as soon as I received my PM and see how you both react. However, having read the game I see that notscience had a solid crumb it cannot be refuted or argued that it was a trick to keep him alive till he performed his check.
Where I'm at -f you insist- is that you're scum and I have the case for it, so if you feel like trying to change my read now is the time. If you keep stalling and moving in circles I can put an end to it on the spot.
Best thing I have for scum!blawb is he parked his vote on my for almost the entire game following his run to L-1 and subsequent claim (absent to hammer scum!arona) while suspecting other townies as my partner.
Your slot has been pretty town and the only two things that bother me are your slot being the third cop claim (after saying he thought there was one scum in the claims) and the weird rap battle thing. But, your slot had the most believable claim to N2 cop given the crumb - that said, scum can crumb as a play.
Ok.. I'm posting my case here w/o a vote, but consider my vote on you in spirit. I'm going to logout and go to bed afterwards, so you should have enough time to read and respond. When I come back (in no less than 12 hours, but probably more) I trust that you would have had responded to the main points at least. Deal??
In post 177, aronagrundy wrote:Yeah I still don't really like pep's content since I voted him (he doesn't really say anything original in any posts that are substantive), but I like the blawb wagon that's forming. I still think KT is town and probably an easy target for scum. I also don't feel like his townread on transcend is genuine, and he's only saying that because he's voting for kt. I would think it should be the other way around (tr transcend, therefore kt is scum). Post 140 also is basically justification for a terrible case I don't have a problem bringing him to L-2.
texcat is also going after kt, but her iso seems like her tunnel is genuine. Seems to have a natural progression from questioning kt to voting him.
VOTE: blawb
OK, that does it for me. 1st voter (from RVS) was scum, but kept their vote in there as the wagon grew, then 5th voter (L-2) was also scum, and I can't see scum bussing this early for no reason at all.
175 also looks like a chainsaw defence of Persi just before aron joined the wagon on Blawb.
Also, I can't see the case Blawb made so early on Persi coming from scum. It doesn't make sense to make that kind of push on a random "townie" slot this early if they were scum.
And now this:
In post 261, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:If the N1 cop feels confident that their check is likely to hit scum tonight then they could claim and have blawb protect them, but that would be up to the player. If it were me I wouldn't claim today though
Here, scum!Kyouko is confirming Blawb to be a Town Doctor by easily accepting the claim even after having been told to check the setup. What if someone did claim a N1 Cop? Well, the Doctor would be on them of course, so they won't be NK'd. Furthermore, that claimed Cop will not be NK'd for the rest of the game bc they had already used up their investigative one-shot. If Blawb was scum then Kyouko's play is dumb as can be, because scum essentially want the Cops dead, and this move forces them NOT to shoot a claimed N1 Cop. It was better to let the (unclaimed) Cop investigate the one they were most likely to investigate at this point: Blawb himself, which brings me to the next point: WHY THE HELL did Persi/PP check Creature instead of Blawb who escaped the noose bc of that claim? A N1 Doc was very unlikely to get NK'd for the rest of the game, so it only makes sense to check THEM to make sure this was a townie slot in LyLo. Instead, they went and checked Creature who was globally Town Read anyway??? There were also others who were pushing/scum reading Persi at that point (DVM & Transcend for instance) and PP didn't check them either. That doesn't make sense AT ALL.
In post 325, Dont_Vote_Me wrote:I'd say the real danger is if the N1 cop who claims is actually scum.
Does that even work out.
It did the last time I played this setup.
karnos...evil bastard.
Funnily enough that move inspired you and you followed his example!
In post 334, Blawb wrote:In regards to trying to confirm myself, could N1 cop (if we have one) claim, investigate me, and I'll cover them?
Another REALLY string town post from Blawb. This would have confirmed them and "hypothetically" made PP unlynchable till LyLo as well (the very situation we're in), unless scum decided to off Blawb earlier to get rid of a confirmed slot and then try to shade the Cop as being scum who obviously knew Blawb wasn't their p.
So, you're telling me "Town" PP gave a pass on an explicit offer to check the claimed Doctor who he suspected was scum AND was being pushed by, while that claimed Dr escaped the lynch by claiming while @L-2, and went on to check a global TR in its stead? I can ONLY understand this if PP did out himself counting on Blawb's protection, which he didn't.
P.S. @Blawb: The rest of that post doesn't make any sense, and only tells me you didn't understand the setup still. If they kill you on N1, how does that "expose" the Cop you've already protected?
Anyway, let's carry on. Lots of distancing between scum, but it's worthy to note arun also was 5th vote on PP with Blawb being 1st, which gave me doubts, especially when it got to L-1 with Creature voting there as well and aron not moving off it. Sson enough the wagon dissipated though while one formed on Creature, and then Kyouko came up with 816. So, 4 scum reads that include BOTH his scum p's? I don't think so.
The Blawb stance at the time was even so antagonizing it could've turned the tide back unto him, and if he was lynched and flipped red it would have all but confirmed PP as town, so that doesn't make sense coming from scum either, and with th PP wagon shrinking to only 3 it isn't customary for there to be 2 scum on it when it's a town slot, but makes much more sense for there to be one scum distancing from their p still.
EOD1
There's also this little matter about the N1 kill. TTTT was heavily scum reading PP, and I feel he was killed just in case he was a Cop who acted "the natural way" and checked his TOP SCUM READ.
In post 1098, Blawb wrote:Doubt scum would kill someone that was suspicious of them, so I'm more interested into who he town-read or even didn't read at all.
There's where you went astray, my friend. In a setup with an average of 50% of the town being Cops (4-6 out of 10) you do NOT shoot someone who TRs you on N1. If scum you always want to avoid being mod-confirmed scum, so you kill the one person who was on your wagon that you didn't know their role. Now the last 3 on PP were you, aron and TTTT 9who even moved to Titus just before the end of the day, making it 99% unlikely that you are scum with aron on Town!PP). Scum knew you were a Doc (that's what you claimed and you had no reason to lie about it if you're town), and they knew aron was one of their own, so WHO is left for them to shoot in order to avoid a mishap?
Scum ending the day on 3 different players (or on 2 different players and one not voting) is the classic day ending. I hardly ever see 2/2 scum (of the same team) at the end of the day even in larges.
Another clear indication Blawb is town. Scum is promoting for that lynch while avoiding the wagon themselves is bad enough, but when they refuse to hammer because another scum p is already on it it screams volumes. However, let's pretend for a minute that I don't have reads on either Blawb/PP already. How likely is it that an all town wagon of 5 would form on scum (w/o a guilty on them) this early into the day? And how likely is it for scum not to hammer their p for town cred at this point? It is also usually done to shut them up ASAP when it looks like they're getting lynched anyway.
Meanwhile, this is what scum do in situations like these. cast their vote on their p for distancing when there's absolutely no danger of it turning into a real wagon. At this point it looked like Blawp was going to be lynched no matter what, and scum were counting on town to finish him off and be Sr for it. (Classic: You flash!lynched town, so there must be 2-3 scum on that wagon. THAT is why both flipped scum refused to hammer.).
In post 1123, Blawb wrote:I single them out, and Arona tries to show that they are on different teams. How are you guys not seeing this?
100% agreed.
But this is even better (from the same post):
In post 1123, Blawb wrote:Anyways, if you wanna Lynch me, fine. But if that gives me any credibility whatsoever, just at least take a harder look into PP and Aaron's for me. You don't even have to Lynch them; just go through their ISO's when I flip town, and try to see where I'm coming from.
this is the towniest thing I read all game so far. I'll be damned if scum was so close to the noose in THIS setup and only singled out TWO slots to inspect after they flip. Unless -of course- it was dumb scum trying to limit their team future pushes, and even then they wouldn't include a p in the two.
Again, trying to promote the lynch while not being on it themselves!!!! If Blawb was scum and the wagon looked like it could dissipate you simply SHUT UP and let it dissipate!
Ahem. I'm well aware this is my slot, and I could have sworn notscience ASKED to be doctored. Yeah. Found it quoted later, It was 947
In post 1181, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:VOTE: creature
Please answer me regarding why do you think Blawb is a mislynch and why did you vote Transcend
A wagon is forming on PP, and the NOT VOTING ALL DAY scum decides to join the OTHER counterwagon at this point, so as to try and save PP but -also- avoid being with him on the same wagon.
In post 1182, aronagrundy wrote:Chilled can you explain what made you change your mind on blawb?
LOL. You weren't even voting Blawb. CT joined the wagon STARTED BY YOU.
FTR: Blawb also joined the PP wagon, and AGAIN I can't see 2 scums spending so much time voting the same target (you may exclude certain players from this general rule though). The VC on 1185 is again a classic 3 scums on 3 different wagons.
In post 1225, texcat wrote:No, it sounded like caught scum to me. He made the absolute safest claim to make. He made it before he got to L-1. Both of those things are not necessarily scum tells, but are things that scum are likely to do.
WRONG. Safest claim was N4/N5 something or the other. That way they are not a priority in scum's kill (i.e. explains why they live that long) and are not required to prove anything. Yes, they risked being lynched anyway (being probably unneeded) but then N1 Doctor would have been suicidal if a N1 Cop did claim at the spot and decided to investigate them. (in this case if they shoot the cop they're outed, and if they don't they're outed).
In post 1297, chilledtea wrote:Wasn't that whom blawb was supposed to protect if fire was town?
Yeah, but I didn't.
Can we just agree on a Lynch please? Our D1 lynch was shitty; let's not do that again.
And now I'm all confused. Why did notscience think you did? I would also like notscience to explain post-game how he townread aron and voted him in the same post. It's irrelevant to my reads, but it helps with meta reading and stuff in future games.
I also don't quite get why scum turned on aruna by the end of D1. I didn't see the need for Kyouto to bus there. PP might have had to after he was linked strongly by 2-3 players to aruna, and -in the off chance which is now worth about 0.001% that Blawb is the scum of the two- I don't see why he hammered either.
Bottom line, this bus was all sorts of weird at that point.
In post 1352, texcat wrote:I am Night 2 cop. I investigated Titus and found town.
WAIT A FRIGGIN' MINUTE! I thought
I
got the inno on Titus on N2!!!
In post 1353, Blawb wrote:Not sure why scum killed Creature. Not going to think about it.
Yeah, I'm falling asleep and can't be bothered to figure is one out either. 14 more pages to go.
In post 1356, chilledtea wrote:Urghh....I am night 2 cop and I investigated titus as well.
In post 1463, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Sort of unrelated quote, was going to comment on that at first until I saw chilled say Blawb was still suspicious in a later post and saw creature calling Blawb a mislynch.
VOTE: Blawb
For the love of God! It can't be more obvious. Avoiding the lynch wagon bc PP is on it, but not wanting to bring PP to L-1 (thus risking another unnecessary bus), so they start a new wagon from scratch on someone they've just town cased on the previous post!
Like, if Blawb was Kyouko's p, why the hell vote him when the PP wagon is available? Why not hammer (or state intention to) on CT? OK.. I think I'm conf!biasing already, but that's because EVERYTHING I READ points to Town!Blawb and Scum!PP. I can't help it anymore.
Oh, and after pleas from everyone to put both wagons level and let notscience decide the hammer, Kyouko decides to ignore them all and declares intention to hammer CT. Great!
In post 1523, Blawb wrote:Kinda sorta disagree, but that's a problem for tomorrow after PP is lynched (@notscience...).
More town points. (I guess by now you have more than the full mark??)
In post 1551, Blawb wrote:PP / CK scum squad imo. Notty, just hammer PP please. No need for the theatrics.
There goes the bonus from the previous quote.
In post 1588, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Why'd you hammer chilled over PP? or was PP even L-1 anymore? Not that I disagree but it sounds like chilled's town
Then the yesterday hammer was sketchy. PP states a gut scum read on Blawb (gut???!!!) but somehow is easily swayed off it to the point he votes WITH Blawb.
That's a much better case than I could've made; thanks for not being a shitty replacement and actually putting in some effort to catch up.
Just a couple things to add. I was going into today not knowing whether it was notscience or PP, because I really like the timeline of the supposed inno read on Creature and his support of him the next day (as pointed out by Transcend). But I've been suspicious of PP's slot since Persivul was in, because I just recognized that their posts were all too safe, instead of making any hard reads or going after anyone. PP hasn't really made a hard push on anyone this entire game, which leads me to believe that he was just trying to lay low.
Any time I've gone after PP, he tries to discredit me and make me look scummy (even though he's read me as town multiple times - his reads change with his own agenda).
In post 710, Firebringer wrote:Let's start here penguin.
Who is scum pushing you.
Who is town pushing you.
Think I've already answered, but for clarity:
Blawb, TTTT, arona <--- one of them. I'd like to say all three of them, but that's extremely unlikely.
I already said I don't think your slot is scum, and I would be surprised if Trans was scum.
It's typical of scum to list 1 partner and multiple townies in their reads, as it is their safety net in case one of them dies. And if it is only "one of them," and Arona was scum, doesn't that clear me in his eyes?
In post 1549, CloudKicker wrote:@Transcend, is this actually the first game ever we are both town on this site ?
PP / CK scum squad imo. Notty, just hammer PP please. No need for the theatrics.
I prefer previous Blawb. He was just bad. You're just annoying.
Your entire ISO since Persi's replace out has been a tunnel on me and a reluctant hammer on arona. You have done f'all other than that.
The hammer on Arona was not reluctant at all, but PP is trying to discredit me again. I get that he would be annoyed by me; I'd be annoyed too if I were scum and some crazy townie was on me all game. But I've been sure about your alignment since D1, and only second-guessed it with your claim.
In post 1729, PenguinPower wrote:Best thing I have for scum!blawb is he parked his vote on my for almost the entire game following his run to L-1 and subsequent claim (absent to hammer scum!arona) while suspecting other townies as my partner.
Your slot has been pretty town and the only two things that bother me are your slot being the third cop claim (after saying he thought there was one scum in the claims) and the weird rap battle thing. But, your slot had the most believable claim to N2 cop given the crumb - that said, scum can crumb as a play.
It's most likely blawb.
I really didn't suspect any townies other than CK and texcat. I've only had 5 suspicions this game, and 3 of them were scum. PP, Arona, CK, SSBM, and texcat. Meanwhile, PP has just gone with the flow this entire game.
And if Almost is the last scum, notscience should be banned or something for doing a tactical RO. Sending an action and purposely getting replaced. But I doubt that's the case.
@Blawb: I still don't understand the relevance between nonscience replacement and the slot being confirmed.
@PP: Sorry to have dropped in to spoil your party. I know I get irritated when I'm cruising as scum only to get a late replacement catching me. Blawb was all over you from the start, but I'm not sure where notscience would have stood.
In post 1733, Blawb wrote:I really didn't suspect any townies other than CK and texcat. I've only had 5 suspicions this game, and 3 of them were scum. PP, Arona, CK, SSBM, and texcat. Meanwhile, PP has just gone with the flow this entire game.
That really doesn't count. As scum you already know who's who. The thing is yours looked like genuine pushes on scum, while PP's looked like forced distancing. I still don't get why aruna was bussed. Things were looking good for another mislynch at the time.
@Blawb: I still don't understand the relevance between nonscience replacement and the slot being confirmed.
@PP: Sorry to have dropped in to spoil your party. I know I get irritated when I'm cruising as scum only to get a late replacement catching me. Blawb was all over you from the start, but I'm not sure where notscience would have stood.
If scum sent an action to kill someone, they had to have been active, right? Notscience was inactive well before last night. Only case in which your slot isn't confirmed is if notscience sent an action last night, but purposely avoided posting on the thread to get a replacement. I'm kinda new to this site; am I understanding that incorrectly?
Also, good game everyone! Notscience probably wouldn't have been as decided as you were today, so I would've fought a bit harder, and who knows what would've happened.
was lynched. It took some doing, but the combined efforts of the
town
proved to be enough.
He was the final
Mafia Goon
, and with his lynch, the game is won for the
town
!
Congratulations Blawb, Almost50, Firebringer, TTTT, Creature, chilledtea, Titus, CloudKicker, texcat, and Transcend!
And many thanks to all the replacements as the game moved forward, and to every player in the game.
Dead thread and mafia thread to be released shortly. As no mafia requested for me to hide any posts in the mafia thread, I will not be doing so.
I'll also be here to field any questions. This was my first moderated game, how did I handle it? I promised a post-game discussion about the notscience replacement, so I'll be talking about that too.
"You're the oddest juxtaposition of reasonable and unreasonable I've ever seen."
OIC. Now I got what you mean about the replacement. Also, I have my good days and I have bad ones. When I'm one of my bad days I genuinely look like a moron.
In post 1739, Not Chara wrote:I'll also be here to field any questions. This was my first moderated game, how did I handle it?
I say you did GREAT. The VC were frequent enough, and the flip flavour was genuine. Also thanks to the players for actually playing the game. It made reading throw it enjoyable too. I hardly ever read through 69 pages in one go.
regarding notscience's replacement: i'm sorry it had an effect on the game. unfortunately, i couldn't replace notscience due to my own ruleset. prod timers reset when the day rolls over, and none of the days were long enough for notscience to be replaced due to inactivity.
as Penguin pointed out, it might have been better had i halted the night and looked for a replacement for notscience before it ended. i'm sorry that i didn't.
an ego-search of notscience shows that he had no posted onsite for two in-game nights, so even before night 5, he had not been active or available to send in a night action from the mafia. however, despite that fact, the timing of notscience's replacement
did
make it seem as though he couldn't have been mafia. i only realized that in hindsight when Penguin mentioned it, so for that the scum team has my apology. i could have solved this one of two ways, and i did neither.
the other way would have been to continue the game with an empty slot until notscience hit his inactivity limit and was force-replaced.
that said, i'd still call this a genuine win for the town. good job everyone.
"You're the oddest juxtaposition of reasonable and unreasonable I've ever seen."
There goes the bonus from the previous quote. 
