Open 684: Stacking the Deck (Game Over!)

[CommKnight]

Yeah, seeing how Goon Cop can't catch the original goons (with extra powers) and making the goon cop useless. That's a pretty bad role to have in a set-up like this. No point in the mafia ever NOT taking the PRs.

But dang, losing our PRs early did suck.

[Lowell]

Where is Aubrey? I want to know what his reads are.

Why oh why did no one notice this?

Anyway, good game, folks, that was fun. Any game I get to LOLHAMMER twice is a good game in my book. And also probably a good game for my opponents in general...

FWIW I investigated shin, xnad, fitz, and aubrey in some order (I forget). But mostly I realized early on that my power was pointless.

[Aubrey]

Goon Cop is more useful when scum pick only one PR and recruit, where the role blocker is less useful here. Vise versa, if scum were to pick a number of power-roles it makes the role-blocker and tracker more useful. I think part of it comes down to the luck of the draw and how well that draw matches up with what scum picked.

I'm curious to know what made Gamma block me N1.

[Xayzeck]

Haha Shin u actually turned out to be scum

[MMM]

Yeah, seeing how Goon Cop can't catch the original goons (with extra powers) and making the goon cop useless. That's a pretty bad role to have in a set-up like this. No point in the mafia ever NOT taking the PRs.

But dang, losing our PRs early did suck.

This.

[MMM]

Fucking christ Lowell.
If I didn't forget there was a TRAITOR in lylo I would have noticed the god damn signs because Shinobi was a really obvious traitor in the end looking back at it SIGH.

[CommKnight]

Yeah, I was of the assumption that they recruited the traitor since they never hit him at night. Also I mean we're not perfect. No one knew the full scum team. We all had suspicions on them at one point or another. But we didn't hard-push them relentlessly.

[Xayzeck]

Even if we did hit the traitor, he wouldn't die.

[Shinobi]

Haha Shin u actually turned out to be scum

I wanted to light both of you on fire.
But I think I got my revenge later when you were on the chopping block. I hope I scared you.

[Aubrey]

I wanted to light both of you on fire.

<3 you

[Xayzeck]

<3 u too babyshin

[Aubrey]

(Testing something)

[mhsmith0]

Objectively speaking, recruiting the traitor is the WORST move you can make. Traitor is OP in this setup (BP AND can pick up the kill), and the cost of giving town an extra PR is substantial when the gain (not accidentally dropping your traitor's BP) is minimal.

There's also pretty ridiculous swing based on what roles town gets, as bodyguard and especially IC are trash. If scum take ZERO powers, then they're a bit vulnerable to vig/cop/tracker/rb, but there are only two PRs, and 9/3 with just two town PRs against essentially all goons (the BP traitor is about as good as a goon here, and better if there's a goon cop as one of the PRs), that's very scumsided on site meta.

[Creature]

It's mostly that previously balanced setups became unbalanced as the site scumhunting became weaker.

[mhsmith0]

This setup also mis-values the traitor role. Normally traitors are worth about half a goon, because they can be shot and get endgamed if the rest of the team dies. Here traitor gets a BP and can take over the kills if the rest of the team dies. This enables scum to have a number of interactions with a buddy where they legit don't know whether they're talking to a buddy, and limits the penalty for blowing the traitor read (losing a kill instead of losing a buddy). Moreover, if scum do NOT ever shoot traitor, then the fact that it's 9/3 means that it's first team to win 3 day phases, which is very hard on town with very few PR clears.

It's also very swingy based on what kind of PRs town gets. If town gets a vig and something else (vig is by far the strongest PR in this setup if scum don't take PRs, and even if they do take PRs it's decent), they are in ok shape. If they get like an IC and BG, they're basically doomed barring drastically outplaying the scum team.

Having played this once without fully considering the implications, I'm not super interested in doing it again. Too scumsided a setup compared to MS meta IMO.

[Creature]

Yeah, that gotta be fixed, otherwise it's literally 2 goons + 1 BP.

[mhsmith0]

I feel like it'd be closer to blaanced if town was guaranteed a goon cop or a vig for its first PR, and then everything rands after that. So if scum don't take more PRs, they're pretty vulnerable to goon cop or vig, and if they do, then town gets more clears. 10/3 instead of 9/3 probably is more balanced too fwiw.

[Gamma Emerald]

I fucking hate FEC
I was SRing Aubrey FYI

[Aubrey]

I fucking hate FEC
I was SRing Aubrey FYI

[LlamaFluff]

be