Open 692 - Two-fold Matrix6 (Game Over)

[Rory]

Guys, I'm role claiming.

I'm double voter.

VOTE: Judge
VOTE: Ari

I scumread Judge's sarcasm. I can understand human being sarcastic, but this is coming from a person complaining about lack of content. Smells hypocrisy when he being sarcastic about it especially the fact he has done nothing.

I mean, is it really possible that from Judge's perspective, EVERYTHING IS NAI AND EVERYTHING IS MEANINGLESS? Can't he even have scumlean or townlean?

almost had me there

[Rory]

Before anyone asks, I have townreads but not publicizing it now.

why not?

[Kasumeat]

Lane, please give me thoughts on the game. Alarmed that his lack of contribution is going unnoticed

I've noticed it, but I would never vote him for it. Wouldn't accomplish anything.

But what was the point in saying its multiball in response to my post. Tell me about that

You're saying it's illogical to SR the person with scum on his wagon. But because it's multiball, there can be scum on scum's wagon, no bussing required.

[davesaz]

Quick catch up read. Work is being its usual self, which is to say very demanding.
I misread parts of the giant wall but then figured it out partway through. Townish.

[Kasumeat]

And who were you agreeing with when you said you agree rory is town?

Wino.

Lane is really climbing in my SRs. Not putting forth any opinions or making any contributions. Just look at this useless white noise question. Does it actually serve a purpose other than upping his postcount?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Woah, that ultra wall was a prank. Disappointing.

no it wasn't. it was to show how kantrip has been coasting by looking busy while saying nothing

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Guys, I'm role claiming.

I'm double voter.

VOTE: Judge
VOTE: Ari

I scumread Judge's sarcasm. I can understand human being sarcastic, but this is coming from a person complaining about lack of content. Smells hypocrisy when he being sarcastic about it especially the fact he has done nothing.

I mean, is it really possible that from Judge's perspective, EVERYTHING IS NAI AND EVERYTHING IS MEANINGLESS? Can't he even have scumlean or townlean?

and I scum read you back. that vote switch is what some scum would do to reposition themselves on a lynch wagon so they would not appear like having joined it early in later vc analysis. for better understanding consult titus.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

i would like to offer my apology to everyone not called kantrip for the long contenteless wall post. it was made to make a point though and i suspect most of u did get the hint loud and clear.

If you expect me to read a wall that long you are out of your mind. Make a summary and I'll consider reading.

the tldr is katrip is busy doing nothing and is asking questions that do not serve the game. my post isnt really that long if you only count what i myself said. the rest is kantrip wall quoting on multiple occasions just to make his post look big and impressive

[BTD6_maker]

Day 1 VC 6

Aristophanes: PMysterious, Realeo, Kantrip, Rory
PMysterious: WhyMafia, Aristophanes, Davesaz
oldwino: lane0618, PenguinPower
PenguinPower: oldwino
Judge Joseph Dredd: Raya36
WhyMafia: Kasumeat
Kantrip: Judge Joseph Dredd

Not Voting:

Deadline is in (expired on 2017-07-03 07:30:00)

Still searching for a replacement for PenguinPower and Raya36.

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

[Kantrip]

Just catching up but holy geez Judge you are being a jerk.

Sorry I'm not familiar with this site and editing quotes. Saying my posts are devoid of content is disingenuous though, I refuse to believe you honestly think that. Stop scumreading everyone who disagrees with you and use some perspective, please. I joined this site because I missed playing mafia but you're gonna make me regret the decision.

[lane0168]

Lane, please give me thoughts on the game. Alarmed that his lack of contribution is going unnoticed

I've noticed it, but I would never vote him for it. Wouldn't accomplish anything.

But what was the point in saying its multiball in response to my post. Tell me about that

You're saying it's illogical to SR the person with scum on his wagon. But because it's multiball, there can be scum on scum's wagon, no bussing required.

No, I'm saying it's illogical to question the person with scum on the wagon, and do no questioning of the wagon and never did. That's not real. Regardless of Multiball or not.

[lane0168]

And who were you agreeing with when you said you agree rory is town?

Wino.

Lane is really climbing in my SRs. Not putting forth any opinions or making any contributions. Just look at this useless white noise question. Does it actually serve a purpose other than upping his postcount?

I didn't remember anyone town reading rory. And that comment seemed really out of place. Possibly planting the rory is town seed.

Funny I ask you a couple questions and all of a sudden I'm climbing your scum reads. That's some pretty serious poo you're flinging right there.

To answer your question, yes it does.

Do you know a lot of scum who post just to have a higher post count?

I post when there's something I need to post about.

[Kasumeat]

I post when there's something I need to post about.

That's a very, very scummy way to play mafia.

[Kantrip]

lane I'm gonna have to stop you there for a second. You initially shared this sentiment:

I don't see the logic in questioning the person who you think has scum on his wagon... That doesn't flow

You're clearly saying here that you don't understand why PM would question Realeo when he thinks there is scum on the wagon.

You later rescinded your stance to thinking it's fine for PM to question Realeo but you don't understand why he didn't

also

question people on the wagon.

Answer me this: Do you think PM is scum? Your vote is still on your RVS target, do you not have anywhere else you see fit to put it?

[Kantrip]

Kasu - Do you still think lane's lack of contribution is not worth voting him over, or have his newest posts changed your mind?

EBWOP

Of course it's not a completely good method, but I feel like a townie would make this mistake
Additionally, you're voting me for a theory reason? That seems stupid lol. That seems to be reaching. It is of my opinion that just voting someone does nothing to get them to post, it just seems towny. I'm not going to vote someone for it, but it pings me, and supports a scum read if more evidence/gut comes into play

OK, now I get what you're saying about the multiball, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't think it's significantly more likely to come from a clueless townie as it is to come from scum who is just making a fake case a little carelessly.

I'm not voting you for a theory reason, I'm voting you because you're accusing somebody of being scummy because he's putting a vote on a lurker and encouraging that lurker to participate. That is very scummy of you. And meta.

Could you clarify the first point for me? Are you saying that it's just as likely to be a town slip as it is to be scum making a fake case? Or that you think scum is more likely?

Could you also expand on why WhyMafia calling Judge's lurker vote a scumtell is so scummy to you?

[Kantrip]

For the record Judge I'm not going to acknowledge your wall post by principle so if you have any questions or comments in it that are actually relevant and aren't just sarcastic drivel to prove a point please post them separately.

[Kantrip]

Rory - I initially liked Kasu's entrance into the game. I liked that his read on me showed a thought process that involved re-reading and reconsidering first opinions which I find to be more common in town (when the thought process looks genuine, at least). While the setup is multiball so scum has incentive to scumhunt too, it still gave me a good impression to see him coming into the low-activity state of the game with an opinion of the most prevalent wagon, a scumread of his own, and a stance that showed he was actually looking to re-evaluate his reads.

However, his recent behaviour towards lane where he said the low contribution wasn't something worth voting him over and then later telling lane his preferred style of play is really scummy prompted me to reread Kasu's posts and some things stood out to me that look inconsistent. Something rubs me the wrong way about the way he tells people their behaviour is scummy in response to them as opposed to making a statement that he thinks X person is scum for Y reasons. Like with lane, for example, I don't know if he thinks lane is scum or if he's just informing lane that what he's saying could be perceived as scummy. I don't know if it's intentional but it's the kind of thing that could give a back-door in the future which I don't like. Similarly, he used a lot of qualifiers and useless questions when calling things scummy in his first post.

Example 1 (paraphrased): "I like the Ari wagon because his posts seem empty. Does anyone have experience with him? Is this typical behaviour?"
I don't think anyone answered this question but I also don't get the impression Kasu was interested in the answer. It again feels like a way to be less committal with a read.

Example 2 (paraphrased): "WhyMafia calling Judge scum for voting a lurker is scummy. Does anyone see a town reason to do this?"
Again, I doubt Kasu is interested in an answer to this question. I also disagree with the premise of his WhyMafia read as stated but I'm going to wait and see how he replies to my questions to him.

I'm interested in what contributes to your scumread on him, Rory. Also, what makes you scumread Raya?

[Kantrip]

Judge - Are you serious about scumreading Realeo for voting you then voting back to Ari again? Could you provide a full reads list actually, and try to keep emotion out of it? I'll do the same in exchange.

Town:

PMysterious, Realeo, Rory, oldwino

Mixed leaning town:

WhyMafia

Mixed leaning scum:

Judge, Kasu

Scum:

lane, Ari

Everyone else: null

[Kasumeat]

Lane has joined Ari and Whymafia in the "players I would murder without hesitation" camp.

Kasu - Do you still think lane's lack of contribution is not worth voting him over, or have his newest posts changed your mind?

EBWOP

Of course it's not a completely good method, but I feel like a townie would make this mistake
Additionally, you're voting me for a theory reason? That seems stupid lol. That seems to be reaching. It is of my opinion that just voting someone does nothing to get them to post, it just seems towny. I'm not going to vote someone for it, but it pings me, and supports a scum read if more evidence/gut comes into play

OK, now I get what you're saying about the multiball, but I'm not sure I agree. I don't think it's significantly more likely to come from a clueless townie as it is to come from scum who is just making a fake case a little carelessly.

I'm not voting you for a theory reason, I'm voting you because you're accusing somebody of being scummy because he's putting a vote on a lurker and encouraging that lurker to participate. That is very scummy of you. And meta.

Could you clarify the first point for me? Are you saying that it's just as likely to be a town slip as it is to be scum making a fake case? Or that you think scum is more likely?

Could you also expand on why WhyMafia calling Judge's lurker vote a scumtell is so scummy to you?

I think that somebody saying "he's legitimately scumhunting, therefore not scum" is a logical fallacy in a multiball game, and for an experienced player to do so I think it's slightly more likely to be coming from
a) scum who got lazy and pushed player how they normally would in a 1-scum-faction game, than
b) a townie who forgot it's multiball or made the same mistake

There is very obviously nothing scummy about pressuring a lurker to participate. It's townie, if anything. Pushing a player because they did something townie is scummy. Seriously, why would you even ask this question? Do you think otherwise?

[Kantrip]

So either way you believe it was a mistake on Realeo's part? I agree with that much, for sure. Is your rationale for thinking it's slightly more likely to be scum due to the fact that, while scum

can

scumhunt in this setup, they still have less incentive to do so than town does? Like scum would be less motivated to scumhunt and so more likely to scumread for reasons that don't make sense for the setup?

As far as the WhyMafia and Judge interaction goes, I think it comes down more to the context. WhyMafia didn't say anything about Judge's vote until someone else gave him town points for it. At that point he disagreed with that sentiment and said he had the lurker vote as scum. That's as far as he went with it and even went as far to say it didn't warrant a vote on its own. From that I got the impression that WhyMafia didn't have a strong read on Judge one way or the other.

The way I see it, the game was pretty stagnant and lots of people were either straight up inactive or posting mostly filler. Judge was vocal about his disdain for this on multiple occasions but wasn't seen doing much about it past consigning himself to the fact that the lynch would be "basically a guess." He then voted one of the inactive players saying they "needed to post more." WhyMafia asked him how that helped the game progress and Judge got snarky back rather than explaining the rationale. This already bothers me because when given an actual question about the action he took "to progress the game" he chose to get defensive about it rather than just explain it, which I don't think was warranted by the interaction. As I pointed out before, Judge was the first one to get aggressive.

I think Judge's countless posts about the state of the game and a random vote on one of several inactive players serves to

look

like he cares about progressing the game, but the way he has reacted to people who question him or his intentions shows that it's the appearance he cares about and not the result. I also believe that's what WhyMafia was feeling when calling the lurker vote scummy and, considering he only did that after someone else tried to call Judge town for it, I don't get the impression that he was trying to push Judge for it at all.

For that reason, WhyMafia comes across as caring more about the game progressing and Judge cares more about keeping up appearances. This is why I think WhyMafia looks townier and Judge looks scummier. There's still a lot of strange things in their interactions and things they've said that confuse me no matter what their alignment which is why my read on them is mixed rather than solid, but that's how I currently stand on it.

[Kasumeat]

Example 1 (paraphrased): "I like the Ari wagon because his posts seem empty. Does anyone have experience with him? Is this typical behaviour?"
I don't think anyone answered this question but I also don't get the impression Kasu was interested in the answer. It again feels like a way to be less committal with a read.

Example 2 (paraphrased): "WhyMafia calling Judge scum for voting a lurker is scummy. Does anyone see a town reason to do this?"
Again, I doubt Kasu is interested in an answer to this question. I also disagree with the premise of his WhyMafia read as stated but I'm going to wait and see how he replies to my questions to him.

Ari answered my question about him, telling him that he's normally very active. That answer certainly didn't change my SR on him.

Example 2 is bullshit. Here are my posts on Lane:

Lane, please give me thoughts on the game. Alarmed that his lack of contribution is going unnoticed

I've noticed it, but I would never vote him for it. Wouldn't accomplish anything.

And who were you agreeing with when you said you agree rory is town?

Wino.

Lane is really climbing in my SRs. Not putting forth any opinions or making any contributions. Just look at this useless white noise question. Does it actually serve a purpose other than upping his postcount?

I post when there's something I need to post about.

That's a very, very scummy way to play mafia.

I acknowledge his lurking/low-content, which is something that AFAIK only Whymafia had done at this point. Then I explain that I'm becoming more suspicious of him and I point out a garbage scummy post of his. And then I say his playing is "very, very scummy." And you're accusing me of being non-committal? And I'll make this very clear: My top 3 scumreads are Ari, Whymafia, and Lane. And you're right behind them.

[Kasumeat]

Kantrip, that's not what happened:

VOTE: davesaz

need the replacement to talk more

What would a vote on that accomplish?

WhyMafia because of so few posts and those were empty. He voted Gamma and unvoted when questioned, voted Ari for no reason and questioned Judge's vote on Dave when I think Judge's vote made sense (getting Dave to participate).

When did I vote Ari? I was never questioned on my vote on Gamma? It was a joke vote/RVS banter. There is no point to vote on someone if they're inactive. And 1 vote on someone to pressure someone to post hardly ever works. If they go through D1 without posting hardly any stances, that's a cause for concern.

Judge - Complained game is moving too slowly, voted Dave to try to move things along which I was thinking of doing. Scum would let us wallow in RVS as long as possible.

I have this as scum. That vote literally does nothing. And complaints are just complaints. Back it up with action, his vote on Dave barely does that.

He clarifies that it's scummy later, but Whymafia's initial accusation comes immediately after Dredd's lurker vote.

I do agree with you about Dredd being very concerned with himself. The reason I don't SR him for it as I would most players is his posting is quite rude and disrespectful, and being self-centred is very typical of rude and disrespectful people. He's also done enough things I TR him for that he falls just to the town side of null for me.

[Kasumeat]

Whoops, I'm not responding to example 2 here with my "bullshit" comment, but rather your accusation of me being non-committal with Lane.

Example 1 (paraphrased): "I like the Ari wagon because his posts seem empty. Does anyone have experience with him? Is this typical behaviour?"
I don't think anyone answered this question but I also don't get the impression Kasu was interested in the answer. It again feels like a way to be less committal with a read.

Example 2 (paraphrased): "WhyMafia calling Judge scum for voting a lurker is scummy. Does anyone see a town reason to do this?"
Again, I doubt Kasu is interested in an answer to this question. I also disagree with the premise of his WhyMafia read as stated but I'm going to wait and see how he replies to my questions to him.

Ari answered my question about him, telling him that he's normally very active. That answer certainly didn't change my SR on him.

Example 2 is bullshit. Here are my posts on Lane:

Lane, please give me thoughts on the game. Alarmed that his lack of contribution is going unnoticed

I've noticed it, but I would never vote him for it. Wouldn't accomplish anything.

And who were you agreeing with when you said you agree rory is town?

Wino.

Lane is really climbing in my SRs. Not putting forth any opinions or making any contributions. Just look at this useless white noise question. Does it actually serve a purpose other than upping his postcount?

I post when there's something I need to post about.

That's a very, very scummy way to play mafia.

I acknowledge his lurking/low-content, which is something that AFAIK only Whymafia had done at this point. Then I explain that I'm becoming more suspicious of him and I point out a garbage scummy post of his. And then I say his playing is "very, very scummy." And you're accusing me of being non-committal? And I'll make this very clear: My top 3 scumreads are Ari, Whymafia, and Lane. And you're right behind them.

[Kasumeat]

Example 2 is bullshit because the question you're referring to is very clearly rhetorical:

My strongest SR is Whymafia. I've played with him before and I townread him very quickly (when he was town) but it's the opposite here. I really, really don't like his push on Dredd. It just seems like scum stretching to find something to push someone for. Does anybody here really think that "what do you possibly hope to accomplish with a vote???" is a legit thing from a townie? Maybe I'm biased because I tend to play more on shorter-deadline sites, but isn't voting people to get them to post totally standard here too?

VOTE: Whymafia

[Realeo]

With 4 days remaining; if the choice of lynch is either PM or Aristo, I'm definitely Aristo.