Open 703: Masons and Mafia Town Win!

[Almost50]

why isn't 2iam stronger?

He's a naughty child who never eats his vegetables nor drinks his milk, that's why!

[Gamma Emerald]

Stop giving joke answers to my questions.

[Almost50]

The question wasn't directed at me though!

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't care. It feels like you're trying to discredit my attempts to interrogate people.

[Almost50]

It feels like you're trying to discredit my attempts to interrogate people.

Sorry if that's how it felt. I was only trying to make the game more enjoyable for everyone. I'll back off now, but I reserve the right to respond to everyone else's posts in any manner I deem fit.

[Hongzi]

I was saying I suspected someone without telling them I suspected them specifically. I was referring to Hongzi going softball on TIAM. I'm also not a fan of him just voting me without precedent.

@Hongzi, 2iam, jzhenson:

why are you voting me?

I made a scumread on you and voted my strongest scumread. Why do you keep insinuating that I have no rationale for my vote?

I'm not, it's just I think I know why everyone else did and I want to know your reason. And why isn't 2iam stronger?

Naw you're right you're not insinuating you are blatantly stating I have no rationale.

Listen if your "scumfuck sense" was tingling about me then why did you maintain your vote on A50? Other than the "surface-level play" accusation.

[Gamma Emerald]

Without precedent means there was no visible suspicion before then. As for why remain on A50 it was that plus his erratic opening. The opening is resolved and I see he's deepened his logic. And you know, the best way to prove you have rationale for your vote it to present it.

[Hongzi]

Gamma Emerald barks up the wrong trees just saying stuff that any alignment could say. Could be a mafioso wearing a townie cloak. I don’t like their posting about spitballing ideas. The tone in that one doesn’t sit well with me. I weigh most of my words heavily, so just throwing stuff out there and dismissing it later with little resistance seems like scum fluttering to me.

[Hongzi]

So, your continued assertion that I had no rationale is a contradiction. Other players had doubts about your claims of erratic posting, doubts which you never addressed and yet you continue to defend reasoning you have since abandoned.

Let's presuppose that you are town and this is a misguided wagon. Who's the scum in it? Work with the town, not bristle against everything in the town.

[Almost50]

Who's the scum in it?

I know you didn't ask me, but I want to answer this (in a serious manner) so here's how I see it:

If Gamma flips Town I'd be most suspicious of jz, then you. I'm leaning Town on Maz and 2IAM and I'm fairly confident fitz is Town.

[Gamma Emerald]

So, your continued assertion that I had no rationale is a contradiction. Other players had doubts about your claims of erratic posting, doubts which you never addressed and yet you continue to defend reasoning you have since abandoned.

Let's presuppose that you are town and this is a misguided wagon. Who's the scum in it? Work with the town, not bristle against everything in the town.

I had interpreted that as something else. It mainly seems to be playstyle.
I'm not certain there even is scum on my wagon. I don't think it's you at this point, and I can see mozamis has decent rationale. That leave 2iam, fitz, and jz. I haven't really looked at jz or 2iam, and fitz seems to have decent logic but I have a gut feeling there's something malicious there.

[Almost50]

@Gamma: Well, please do take a look at jz asap, bc that's where I rally want to look now. If it helps, I've quoted everything he had to say thus far in the following spoiler:

Spoiler: All 6 posts jz made so far

VOTE: Twoinamillion

The phrase is "one in a million" ... sounds like he must have a conspiracy to stack the odds in his favor. What organization would have enough power to do that? The mafia.

I rest my case.

Why is erratic posting scummy?

Seems more like a town trait at this stage of _the game_

I don't like this post. Erratic posting isn't a scumtell, but the same logic that shoots that down would also lead you to believe that isn't not a town tell either. Because the logic doesn't seem to be coherent, it feels disingenous.

UNVOTE: Twoinamillion
VOTE: rb

Since you guys don't seem to understand the set-up fully and already fucked one plan completely, let's get this out onto the table.

There are NO night kills. Masons and Mafia cannot talk with each other. They may leave hints in some of their posts that the other members of their team will be more observant of.

We can actually force the mafia's hand. Pick one person to be hammer and pick two people to be at L1. If one or both are scum, they'll be forced to use their daykill attempt or completely risk being lynched without attempting one.

We ensure this method works because anyone who steps outside of two people to put at L1 is immediately lynched the next day, no waiting period, no time for scum to decide to attempt their daykills to kill masons, they get lynched for mishammering.

Any objections?

I like this thought process, but I'm not sure it's completely foolproof. It could lead us to "clear" people undeservedly (like if we happen to put two scum at L-1, or scum uses the hammer to bus).

the odds improve as townies are lynched but that's not a winning game plan.

That would also improve the odds of scum shooting a mason.

Honestly, as much as having some kind of algorithm to approaching the game would be helpful, I'm not sure that there are any possible plans that would give us a higher probability of winning other than good old fashioned scumhunting. Taking the guesswork out of the game like that greatly reduces the amount of content in thread to draw reads from, allowing scum to hide behind "following the plan."

I find it difficult to get reads from speculating about the strategy. It's essentially a logic puzzle, and while people can be bad at solving a logic puzzle, analyzing it has very little to do with your alignment. Scum can easily join in on that discussion without having to give anything away. I said this before, but I think there are much more interesting discussions to be had.

I'm kinda offput by the amount of pushback Comm is receiving but A50 has some sound reasoning in his most recent post so I'll think on it a bit.

Like with this post. It's so noncommittal, and reads almost like "I want to have a say in this discussion but I'm not sure where it's gonna go so I'll chime in here and wait it out." A scummy take on (as I see it) a fruitless dialogue.

UNVOTE: rb
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

VOTE: jzhenson93

I don't like how this guy is approaching this game at all. He's an alt account, right?

Popping in tonight to address this, giving things a re-read tomorrow morning to see what comes of it.

I was on mafiascum when I was in high school and, even though I really enjoy playing mafia, I didn't have a mature enough handle on managing my time and ended up chronically replacing out of games.

Now that I'm done with my master's and settling into a more stable schedule, I came back to the site to get back into mafia as a hobby. So I guess you could call me an alt, but there's no main account with sizeable enough experience to really matter.

[Gamma Emerald]

18: RVS
67: kinda makes sense
85: raises good points imo
99: more good points
126: I feel his criticism is legitimate, it's the same reason I got the feeling Hongzi was scum from that post saying he would analyze 2iam
216: not really much here

So jz seems somewhat towny at this point.

[humaneatingmonkey]

scum often raise very good points. that's not how you play mafia. you should know that.

rb's pushback is meh. will watch him throughout the game.

might not be able to respond until tomorrow.

[Gamma Emerald]

But they're good theory points, where scum would try to mislead moe often.

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE: until I have a chance to read/review the game through the weekend.

[Gamma Emerald]

ok I think I was just cheesed off at fitz talking down me being open about things, not suspecting him much currently

[rb]

theory talk is NAI usually

[humaneatingmonkey]

Taking it all I have to not lynch Gamma.

[Gamma Emerald]

in case it wasn't clear 266 is a continuation of 260

[mozamis]

Gamma in full on survival mode...
Catching up properly tonight.
But I can't see I'm gonna change my mind. Case on Gamma is straightforward:
1) His first couple of posts were entirely empty.
2) He asked a entiely fake question of...someone, i forget who. It was very clear what the guy had said. Gamma was clearly asking the question for the sake of having something to post.

[Gamma Emerald]

1) tf? That's not a scumtell.
2) I wrote off the logic as something else. Also I had things to post about then.
And how is what I'm doing "survival mode"?

[mozamis]

You've upped your game dramatically since you've been near lynch.
There was a lot of discussion going on which you didn't comment on at all. That can be a scumtell because scum know what is being discussed doesn't matter. Town would have commente don what was going on.

[mozamis]

Gonna give Humanmonkey a townpass for Day 1 for sheer effort. It is possible that he's good scum, but he's not a day 1 lynch. And he probably IS town. The theory wall post stuff is...whatevr...but he is also giving out a lot of opinions.

[mozamis]

Where's wavemode? He's quite acive as town s a very minor Fos o fhim, plus his not in my townpile.