Open 706: C9++

[Jodaxq]

Cy is bothering me a lot. His game feels like a straightforward by-the-book scum game. Big, empty, inorganic posts that look townie if you don't look close enough followed by a lot of dead air

[Jodaxq]

This game has stalled out, and usually that's a sign that we're looking in the wrong place. I know that I've been a major part of the inactivity and I agree that Chip's inactivity is NAI, but I can't help but feeling we're losing some activity to some people liking the direction this game is moving

[Jodaxq]

Adding to the above post, I want to explore Cy first. Elmo is an okay lynch for me but it feels too similar to the assemble lynch.

VOTE: CytheFlyGuy

[Jodaxq]

Cheeky definitely seems the most townie to me (other than the IC of course) over the past few pages. Similar to my read on NSG, she seems to value game movement and interactions.
Dave is probably next but I'm less confident. I still would probably not lynch him today barring something big.

[CheekyTeeky]

This game has stalled out, and usually that's a sign that we're looking in the wrong place. I know that I've been a major part of the inactivity and I agree that Chip's inactivity is NAI, but I can't help but feeling we're losing some activity to some people liking the direction this game is moving

If it's stalling out couldn't that also be a sign that we're on the right track?

What are your thoughts on schism and SA?

So far I understand your reads as:

AC
CheekyTeeky
Davesaz
Chip
Elmo
Cy

Is this right?

[OhGodMyLife]

Good morning everyone! Happy to be here, thank you for the welcomes, etc etc. I'm living in the Central European Timezone right now so apologies if most of my posts this game show up when no one else is awake.

I'm in the midst of reading the game, but I have to meet my wife at the grocery store when she gets out of the gym in 15 minutes so I'll finish up when I get back.

Is there just the one hydra in the game? I've seen y'all signing your posts, thank you for that.

Mod: Can you put dead player roles in one of the opening posts for reference? Or add a link to wherever the flips are posted?

[OhGodMyLife]

OK, now that I've read the thread over once let's just start with the quick hits, shall we?

From the way RVS played, the ensuing feud with fitz, and more recent posting I have a town read on Jodaxq. I think she's got a pretty clear vision of the game here on day two, which I'll get to toward the end of this post. Now where was I? Oh yeah, the beginning.

This might sound mean but I am glad this tone person is dead already so I can look forward to not parsing any more of their posts. I wish there hadn't been so much ink spilled here on day one just discussing them.

Schism: in 164 and again in 176 you assert that everyone voting Assassin at the time is town. (Votecount in 152 for reference.) This stuck out to me. You were one of the four votes on Assassin at the time, though you switched your vote in 164 at the same time as you made the assertion. What made you so sure about this? What's your current stance on the other three people who were voting Assassin, and on Assassin himself?

Somebody said this somewhere on day two already, but I also take northside's 198 as an indication of intent to investigate Schism. There isn't enough information to pinpoint who killed who but I think it is most likely she was the mafia kill because she was giving off PR vibes by the end of the first day.

...the cattiness in the middle here between players and mod is a bad look on all sides, y'all

There's one post that basically turns the tide and all but guarantees assemble will be the day one lynch, and it's Sleepless Assassin's vote in 316. He turns around on day two and makes this misylnch the main issue in 400. There's just something about the way he does it ("I doubt anyone can tell me with a straight face scum stayed off the wagon. I'm fully aware that leaves myself and my scum reads.") that is rubbing me wrong.

428 from cytheflyguy is really classic active lurking, in my opinion. Which is pretty much what he seemed to be doing all of day one as well. But this particular post just reads like straight exposition - here's the story of the game so far y'all, wow, what do we think?? Cy doesn't actually give us anything remotely resembling a scumread, and is basically fishing for the vig at the same time.

Incidentally that is also what I was referring to with Joda's clear vision of the game.

Cy is bothering me a lot. His game feels like a straightforward by-the-book scum game. Big, empty, inorganic posts that look townie if you don't look close enough followed by a lot of dead air

I'm really squicked out by Joda getting wagoned up to L-2 on page 21, under the cover of sheeping the innocent child.

OK that's it for now, I have to make dinner and this is already more of a wall post than I meant to make. Whew, it's been a long time since I read a mafia game. Pending a vote count I intend to vote for Cy at this point. I also think it's important we take advantage of the time left before the day's deadline to get some more robust discussion going in general.

[davesaz]

Good post generally. On mobile so read it quickly.

[Almost Chara]

581 from OGML looks pretty townie to me, but I will only grant a Town Lean to the slot due to: a) My previous SR on Chip, and b) OGML's join date (he's an experienced player, so is much less likely not to know how to look Townie as either alignment).

That said, I still have Schism as a TR. So, Cheeky, Schism & OGML are off my lynch pool, and consequently Joda because she's being TR'd by 2 of them (inb4 Cheeky+OGML+Joda are the Scum team and I'm the most naive person on the planet)

UNVOTE:

[Almost Chara]

Btw, Elmo is no longer a TR. She's down to NULL.

~A50

[davesaz]

If a (weak) townread of mine is wrong, it's probably Sleepless Assassin. What do you think about him?

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Btw, Elmo is no longer a TR. She's down to NULL.

~A50

I should never be a townread

[Almost Chara]

Yeah. My bad!

~A50

[Sleepless Assassin]

Elmo is an okay lynch for me but it feels too similar to the assemble lynch.

How? Most of us openly admitted Assemble was a policy lynch but have actual reasons to suspect Elmo. If it's the fact that Elmo hasn't been very active, you could say that about most anyone in this game.

There's one post that basically turns the tide and all but guarantees assemble will be the day one lynch, and it's Sleepless Assassin's vote in 316. He turns around on day two and makes this misylnch the main issue in 400. There's just something about the way he does it ("I doubt anyone can tell me with a straight face scum stayed off the wagon. I'm fully aware that leaves myself and my scum reads.") that is rubbing me wrong.

I'm not gonna ignore a mislynch that I think scum would have jumped on just because I could be implicated by it. That would be poor scum hunting. What do you think of Schism's assertion that scum avoided the wagon combined with the fact that Schism was on the wagon?

I'm really squicked out by Joda getting wagoned up to L-2 on page 21, under the cover of sheeping the innocent child.

Does anyone in particular stand out as scummy for doing that?

[cytheflyguy]

{Almost Chara}
{Sleepless Assassin, Chip Butty}
{Elmo TeH AzN, davesaz}
{cytheflyguy, Schism, Jodaxq}

Ok this is where I'm at. I didn't need to ISO all of you again as when I confirmed Chip as town in my list, it helped me shuffle the rest of you around. I originally had Jodaxq next to SA but something in my gut is screaming she's scum so I'm going with it as my gut is surprisingly accurate, albeit often ignored late game :/ Because I don't believe Jodaxq works with dave I've moved him up a tier and I don't think Schism is scum with Elmo so he moves up a tier too. Cy is kind of easy posting, like dave was, plus the lack of interactions between Schism and Cy bother me

If Jodaxq is town then my SA read drops. I feel like these two are connected in that they do not share an alignment.

Phew! Now I get to keep up in real time

I don't like this read on Jodaxq and don't understand how she's at L-2. She's doing a solid job scum hunting. Everything seems town from her.

I got some time to iso cytheflyguy. I don't see much useful there at all. I'd say it's worth a weak scum read.

Now with that, we can assume scum killed tonereader. Now we must find out who had the biggest motivation to kill them and start from there.

This is an attempt to divert attention away from the idea of looking at who northsidegal would be a threat to.
Most likely a partner to whomever would be tagged by that analysis.

You're giving me too much credit.

@cytheflyguy what are your thoughts on Elmo?

@Elmo TeH AzN what are your thoughts on cytheflyguy?

Will bring that up in a post coming up soon.

Cy is bothering me a lot. His game feels like a straightforward by-the-book scum game. Big, empty, inorganic posts that look townie if you don't look close enough followed by a lot of dead air

That's just a problem with my play style in general. I wanted to join mafia partly so I could get better at making arguments. I'm slightly improving tho, haha.

I'm not trying to make an excuse, but I get this concern a lot in all of my games.

[Jodaxq]

This game has stalled out, and usually that's a sign that we're looking in the wrong place. I know that I've been a major part of the inactivity and I agree that Chip's inactivity is NAI, but I can't help but feeling we're losing some activity to some people liking the direction this game is moving

If it's stalling out couldn't that also be a sign that we're on the right track?

What are your thoughts on schism and SA?

So far I understand your reads as:

AC
CheekyTeeky
Davesaz
Chip
Elmo
Cy

Is this right?

I still don't like 400 from Sleepless. At all. I also remember not liking his early game very much, but his day one does look better upon reread. I would probably lynch Elmo ahead of him.

Schism seems town to me. I see that Dave has him on top of his scum list... is that just because of the kill on NSG? At least two people now took her Hurt:Schism as a soft claim for an investigation. I also felt she was just pretty obvtown for her D1 play. I don't think I'm willing to accept any scum read that's solely based on night kill analysis.
I feel like Schism's general annoyed/frustrated tone at the way town is playing seems genuine. I think he really feels like he and maybe the IC were kind of on their own at the end of D1 and that truly frustrated him as it limited his ability to scum hunt. I've skimmed through to try to find a more solid case on Schism, but I hadn't seen one. Did I miss it?

[Jodaxq]

Elmo is an okay lynch for me but it feels too similar to the assemble lynch.

How? Most of us openly admitted Assemble was a policy lynch but have actual reasons to suspect Elmo. If it's the fact that Elmo hasn't been very active, you could say that about most anyone in this game.

Maybe it's just me. To me, havingfitz was the best lynch on D1, and Assemble was the "omg. fine. this could be right." lynch. Today, I feel like cy is the best lynch and Elmo is the lynch I'd take if I can't have Cy.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm not gonna ignore a mislynch that I think scum would have jumped on just because I could be implicated by it. That would be poor scum hunting.

It's your wording in how you did it that set me off, not the fact that you did it.

What do you think of Schism's assertion that scum avoided the wagon combined with the fact that Schism was on the wagon?

[I was hoping we'd have another post from Schism by now but...] I find that pretty scummy

Does anyone in particular stand out as scummy for doing that?

Cheeky and Schism both do, to an extent. Moreso Schism, who kind of plus ones Almost Chara when they place the initial Joda vote but waits until Cheeky also votes Joda before jumping on the wagon. Cheeky was a little more natural, with her discussion of Joda coming just before AC made their vote. But the phrase Cheeky uses when she actually votes in 509 ("Joda will be a good lynch for information also") never fails to ping my scumdar. A so-called information lynch is really bad for town when we're possibly one lynch away from being in LyLo. And why does Cheeky need to hedge with the line about lynching for information when in 503 she says "something in my gut is screaming she's scum"?

I'd like to point out the Cy did show up since I posted but managed to ignore me altogether.

VOTE: cytheflyguy

MOD: Votecount Please?

[CheekyTeeky]

A so-called information lynch is really bad for town when we're possibly one lynch away from being in LyLo. And why does Cheeky need to hedge with the line about lynching for information when in 503 she says "something in my gut is screaming she's scum"?

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my posts. I was lynching a scum read and preferably one that gives us the most information as an added bonus. I didn't say I wanted to lynch them purely for information. I'm not sure how that is AI of scum.

You call it hedging I call it transparency. I have nothing but gut to go on with Jodaqx and I've made it pretty clear I want more to solidify a read there. It's kind of frustrating that you ignore all my other content to find a couple of iffy statements that aren't really AI one way or another. Your scum hunting seems shallow.

[momo]

Votecount

Votecount 2.3 #Pdodge

Haven't posted in a while, better pdodge....this game lol...btw, if you want anyone prodded, pm me and it shall be done...I don't like to prod unless the players think it's necessary.

Votes

:
Elmo Teh AzN (3): Sleepless Assassin, Davesaz, CheekyTeeky
Cytheflyguy (2): jodaxq, OhGodMyLife
Jodaxq (1): Schism

Not Voting: Elmo TeH AzN, cytheflyguy, AlmostChara

Note: Deadlines shrink every day. The deadline is the number of people alive, +1 days

(expired on 2018-01-16 19:47:30)

[davesaz]

Schism hasn't posted in more than 4 days.

That VC smells like both Elmo and Cy are scum. If they were both town and townreading each other I'd expect them to try to agree on an alternative wagon. Town and scumreading each other should be voting each other.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

That VC smells like both Elmo and Cy are scum. If they were both town and townreading each other I'd expect them to try to agree on an alternative wagon. Town and scumreading each other should be voting each other.

I would have to make a vote.

[Almost Chara]

The VC does smell indeed.

VOTE: momo

For trying to conceal our mere existence in this game.

~A50

[Sleepless Assassin]

That VC smells like both Elmo and Cy are scum. If they were both town and townreading each other I'd expect them to try to agree on an alternative wagon. Town and scumreading each other should be voting each other.

I would have to make a vote.

Well, deadline is two days away so...yeah.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

Haven't felt well past two days anyways. Was waiting on a VC. And didn't even post anywhere lately