furthermore, this is also exactly what scum who doesn't actually intend to bus would say
because everyone's gonna shout at him "NO DONT HAMMER YET"
which gives him an out for not hammering
and hoping that the extended day redirects the lynch
kop should've been replaced imo
the fact that you can't policy lynch in this setup is ludicrous, mixed with the lax activity expectations
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 877, Sky_Paladin wrote:Dino asked for me to provide meta reason for Sheep/Tora being scum, here's the one on Sheep.
Please take a look at this and let me know your thoughts. I'll do Tora next.
TL/DR
I think Sheep's play this game has a lot more in common with their scum-meta than their town meta.
I have only seen one real town game and two real scum game from Sheep, and this setup seems to encourage idleness.
Summary:
Key differences between town!sheep and scum!sheep:
Town sheep directly engages with players and asks questions often. Feels like they're trying to solve the game.
Scum sheep talks a lot 'about' the game or 'about' players; mainly empty content posts that have the illusion of being involved.
The current game we're playing feels different from the other games played (doesn't feel intuitively like scum!sheep, doesn't feel intuitively like town!sheep) which is interesting; there's only been a month or so since they're last game and I wouldn't expect this big a change. Possible that their RL situation has changed and they're able to focus more.
Aggression this game is consistent with overall play and is non AI.
Main matches with scum game:
Hands out strong townreads early game - Dino, Cy (reversed Cy read later). Mutual townclear is not alignment indicative, it just seems that sheep hands out early townreads more frequently as scum.
A lot more high level meta posts/feeling of talking about the game/players instead of directly engaging with players.
Examples: 43 57 61 69 153 150 170 178 184 211
etc etc almost every post is empty content/filling up the thread with actual nothing until near the 700's when a vote for Diamond appears once a wagon has begun there.
Last post is commenting that Hyule posted but no actual feedback on anything Hyule has said.
Key difference between scum!Sheep and this game:
Scum sheep seems to care a lot more about the game and puts in more effort, especially when they or their buddies are under threat.
Details about examined games behind the spoiler.
Spoiler:
Games that the player started in (games they replaced into don’t count, games they replaced out of do).
Requirements for a deepdive:
Games that had at least 100 posts of content.
Games that had at least 10 posts from the player in question.
Ideally I look for 3x scum games and 3x town games in order to feel like there are enough data points to make a meaningful decision.
Unfortunately Sheep does not have a lot of games in the above category.
Overall summary:
Frequently posts lots of small posts that are relevant to the game the longer the game goes on.
Most posts are directly engaging other players (questioning reads typically).
Posts read lists.
Frequent votes changes at the start of the game
Lots of shit posts
Read lists
Semi-frequent posts that question other players
Occasional strong statements eg 'never having strong reads is usually cautious scum'
Frequent posts that engage and discuss with players.
Took about 5 days RL to become meshed with the game.
Frequent citation of being busy in RL. also i know from past experience to never trust my gut simply put, i should never trust my gut
Highly aggressive at the start of the game; see 53 to 74.
Almost every post is directly engaging or in response to other players. Highly indicative of a player who is trying to figure stuff out/figure out other players alignment. Even before post 100 there is a strong feeling that Sheep is involved/impacting this game.
Posts like 166, 192, 204 straight up asking players to explain their reads/vote/position.
Look at this gorgeous reads list. Complains about wall
States town goal "disagree with this
town goal is to find scum"
Argues against somebody elses townread
Generally a lot of posts engaging with/discussing/asking other players to do things. See 727.
Response to pressure is lots of small one-liners, finally joined in a single post, eg this one
2x scum games
Scum game 1 – Pick your poison
Early RVS votes, directly engages player after prod dodge in 152 179 appeal to town; small number of empty content posts talking about game/players not related to town/scum.
Kind of hard to explain - the feeling is that sheep is talking to players at meta, gives the appearance of being engaged but is not really.
examples 267, 276 Wall post not especially interesting except we never see these really from Sheep.
Game over really quickly; general feeling is that scum!sheep walks lightly and rarely interacts but gives the impression of acting. Strong feeling difference from town game 1.
Frequent vote changes early on.
Hands out strong townreads very early on some players Also aggressive early on Backing up other players, obv buddying to town player x2
Feeling of offense by being scumread asks for explanation
Throws out town reads on town players but no scum reads.
Fairly strong post push on town.
Reads list has scumbuddy in null slot.
Posts around 200 onwards fairly aggressive and pushing.
posts like this show evidence of scum hunting, interesting that it comes from scum!sheep.
Strongly active near phase end trying to manage the (mis)lynch. Reads list
Generally a lot of town-looking posts. Sheep tried hard and cared a lot more in this game than in the other games I have read. Generally aggressive at the start, as the game went on became more passive and was mainly content to let the town do whatever it wanted, until it was near hammer when they appeared to be more active.
Handed out town reads very early on (mirrored with our game) on non-buddies, placed buddies as null read.[/spoiler]
Given time I can do this for all the players in the game but I prefer not to as it is a significant time investment and feels like cheating.
***
As I couldn't really get enough data points to fill in what feels like a concrete argument for sheep is scum, I can really only conclude that this game seems to have more in common with Sheep's scum game than their town game.
Dino, now that I have gone and done this, what are your thoughts? Do you think there is anything here?
@Diamond
we need to decide what we're going to do about this push on Cy and if we are both going to vote for it (or not).
I am not overly impressed with Cy/Lalendra. The fact that their voting seems to be tied at the hip with Red/Hyule concerns me. It's also very strange that...well, at the moment you could see it is a competing wagons between Dino and Cy. Presumably Cy/Lalendra would have a personal investment in wanting to persuade players who might be wanting to vote Dino (e.g you and I given we had been there for most of the day) to revote Dino because otherwise they'd be dead.
However this has not really eventuated.
So I guess I'll semi-address this to Cy/Lalendra: Are you guys voting Dino because you believe scum!Dino, or is it because you're trying to keep your head above water?
@Momo/Kop
I see you are still voting RedFlavor but I haven't really got any other meaningful interactions out of you to see what you think/feel. Can you please comment on some of the latest things e.g vote changes, and perhaps your thoughts on the whole Dino/Sky drama we had earlier?
I still think that you're discounting the possibility of "town won't hammer because if they do Dino will deathtunnel them" when it comes to the lack of hammer. We can't afford deathtunnels on D2 because two mislynches means scum win.
So because Dino is a loud player we shouldn’t lynch the most likely player to be scum? Wtf?
I agree with you that I don't think Lalendra is correct, I don't think you read her work correctly.
There's one lurker out. Sorry Lalendra, but it's apparent that Math!team is completely hellbent on just sitting on a plurality wagon until the end of time, so I can't win out a waiting game here.
But Math, if/when they flip green, I call the shots tomorrow. And none of that "Diamond hammered so they must be scum" bull crap.
But before the day ends, Math, you realize that your little scheme has more holes than a wiffleball made of swiss cheese, right? Me holding the wagon at a standstill by threatening people to not hammer
doesn't
help scum!me. There will be a plurality lynch at deadline anyways, so stalling the wagon flat out doesn't work.
Also, I'm hammering it because a. not hammering won't fix a thing with sheep being scum and you acting like a child with their fingers in their ears like "la la la I can't hear you", and b. Partially just because I feel like proving you wrong that I wouldn't flippantly vote and that I won't hammer.
“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”
if it's not game over - please make sure not to be stupid and vote right out of the gate. Two wrong votes on the same player and scum can quickhammer for gg.
In post 1035, DiamondSentinel wrote:But before the day ends, Math, you realize that your little scheme has more holes than a wiffleball made of swiss cheese, right? Me holding the wagon at a standstill by threatening people to not hammer doesn't help scum!me. There will be a plurality lynch at deadline anyways, so stalling the wagon flat out doesn't work.
Also, I'm hammering it because a. not hammering won't fix a thing with sheep being scum and you acting like a child with their fingers in their ears like "la la la I can't hear you", and b. Partially just because I feel like proving you wrong that I wouldn't flippantly vote and that I won't hammer.
1. You didn't ask to see the evidence that I offered, so I will take that as a concession to my argument that
SCUM CAN BUS
. I ask myself what I'd do as scum in this setup in various scenarios, and what you guys have done is very similar to what I think I'd have done as scum with Lacy. I often play to catch behaviours that I'd expect from scum-me.
2. If your best theory is me being scum with sheep, then
no shit I'm not going to listen to you.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
cytheflyguy - Mafia Polygamist - Lynched Day One
Lalendra - Mafia Polygamist - Committed Suicide Day One
hyung - Mafia Polygamist - Committed Suicide Day One
RedFlavor - Mafia Polygamist - Committed Suicide Day One
Town Wins
Mafia loses
I will allow 72 hours for any players to choose if they wish their private topics to be revealed. I will honor any request to keep topics private.
Thoughts tomorrow. Have spent last bit getting podcast notes ready and its late now.
Haha. Well, that was disappointing. Lurksack scum.
Anyways, I will point out that, contrary to what you said, none of the scum bussed.
“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”
And I will point out I was wrong on you Diamond but right on the theory
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In fact, there was not even a vote count where they bussed.
PEdit: Which theory was that?
“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”
90% of the site cannot. I don't aim to be unreadable. I merely play entirely emotion-based which doesn't fit in with the site-meta.
“Why was I chosen?'
'Such questions cannot be answered,' said Gandalf. 'You may be sure that it was not for any merit that others do not possess. But you have been chosen, and you must therefore use such strength and heart and wits as you have.”
That the cy wagon was scum based on voting patterns.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
90% of the site cannot. I don't aim to be unreadable. I merely play entirely emotion-based which doesn't fit in with the site-meta.
Yeah as an aspie I read extremely literal too literal at points anywho we got the scums.
Gg all
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
