Open 709: Masons and Monks (Game Over)

[Archwing]

@Jay: Statistically speaking; the BEST way to avoid being lynched/NK'd in Mafia is to avoid PLAYING Mafia. NEVER has anyone NOT playing in a game been lynched/shot in said game.

Almost50 ---------- Town (if I didn't have my roe PM I wouldn't have been able to tell, tbh)
mozamis ---------- Town lean (Lots of content, but nothing superbly AI, and NOTHING SCUMMY so far)
Dunnstral --------- Null (Probably modding a game and doesn't have time for this game!)
Kotoko Utsugi ---- Null (I remember Dunn posted a question mark. I don't think this slot posted at all)
ShadeadMelee --- Null (see above)
Beefster ---------- Null (I remember the avatar more than anything they've posted)
JaydragonKing --- Town lean (Hard to be conclusive when I've never seen Scum!Jay, but I've seen Town!Jay before and it looks like this)
davesaz ---------- Town lean (Voice of reason. Always asks "strange" questions, but that's how he scum hunts)
momo ------------ Town lean (If this is also how he plays Scum he's bound to get caught sooner than later)
talon152 -------- Null (Not sure if they posted yet)
Raya36 ---------- Null (one day I'll be able to tell the difference between her Scum!lurking and her Town!lurking)
Assemblerotws - Null (Nice hat)
Archwing -------- Null (I know he's posting, but the only time he tried giving feedback it was "piggybacking" Jay's meta)

Suffice it to say we're into page 4 and all I have is a personal preference to the more active posters. THIS DOESN'T LOOK GOOD!

So, maybe it's time for some of my own crazy shit (this trademark is under the protection of the law. Do NOT redistribute without explicit authorization from the original shitter. This shit is hazardous, toxic, radiant and highly inflammable, and could cause serious damage to you leading to your lynch if used improperly.)

IF YOU WERE TO ROLL SCUM AND WAS GIVEN THE CHOICE TO PICK ONE PARTNER FROM THIS GAME PLAYER LIST, WHO WOULD THAT BE? EXPLAIN.

This post seemed pretty forced to me on my initial read, and even moreso now. Obviously this kind of a thing was needed, as the game felt like it was stalling a bit coming out of RVS, but I don't like how everyone on the read list is either town lean or null. No real scumspects on there? I'm a firm believer in the power of a town PoE pool, but I mean... no one is scummy?

[Archwing]

Well, I'm town reading you for 85-87, if that makes you feel better.

Elsa, mind explaining why? I don't see it. I see more forced activity from A50. It's easy as scum to hide in plain sight - avoiding activity lynches is one way to stay alive, and activity usually makes people TR you more, so as scum, it almost makes sense to be a little more active. I found A50's 85 to be kind of weird, with the whole "*sigh*" thing, as if we should all just sheep A50 and we are asinine in thinking otherwise. Momo is fully entitled to have their SR on Moz there, and snarky exasperation's like that have no place, IMO.

[Archwing]

Actually, i think this is my first really serious vote of the game
VOTE: archwing

looking at his ISO, he has posted enough to post content, and yet there is no real content.
the closest he gets to scum hunting is asking me a question which i have already given an answer to. (i had already said almost=meta read, and he asked me why i thought almost was scum) scum do sometimes miss things as they are skimming over stuff.
i think its time we got a proper wagon going.

just to officially respond to the question I asked you moz, I looked back and saw that after the fact. I think I glazed over that, and to be fair, i thought it was a bit of a weak reason to state townreading people, but it was a fair point that I never got back to you on.

[JaydragonKing]

@momo: By now you should know I do pay attention to WHY people TR me, even if they don't say it explicitly. If I can't find a convincing reason for the TR I would ask them for one, and if still unsatisfied I'd probably be suspicious of them.

It was half because I didn't have any other alternatives at the moment, and half to see if he would call me out for blindly sheeping him like he said he would in this comment. He never did.

[davesaz]

I'm less confident of mozamis as town after looking at it in iso.
Dunn can be lurky and a streak poster, but I find the 2nd post promise of a read-up to be a little sketchy.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

If Beef is town, talon and Raya look the most opportunistic of the people on the wagon.

2nded

[Archwing]

Honestly I'd be pretty cool with speedlynching in this setup. I have a strong suspicion that the longer the day goes on, the more scumsided it'll eventually get. Masons and monks are gonna get pretty obvious over time. Plus, ideal strategy is for mafia and wolves to shoot town (and not destroy each other). I'd rather not give them more time to figure out the entire setup.

So yeah let's speedlynch Beefster.

I don't follow this line of reasoning. The scumteams already have a pretty low chance of killing the other scum if done completely randomly. I don't really see how a short day makes things any different.

The way to win is to get 4 correct lynches in a row. Short days do not help achieve that.

VOTE: Mathdino
OMGUS, but I don't care.

so I don't know anything at all about Beef.... but this is so fucking scummy, like I don't really.... does Scum!Beef really go down this road?

[Archwing]

Finished skimming. Here is where I lie...

I think Moz is prob town. I think Dino is town, but I wanna metadive them first before I stick to that claim.
Dave gives me weird vibes. Kinda same thing as A50. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them flipped scum. I gotta go back and look at their interactions.
Elsa is null to me. Momo is a scum lean, like i stated earlier, but apparently that's town!momo.. i dunno.
I forgot that Dunn was a player until I looked at the player list. That goes for Talon, Raya, and Assemble.
VOTE: Assemblerotws I want more from him. Also, I think beef wagon is shit. I don't think Dino is scum because of it, but I am fos'ing others on that wagon.

[Kotoko Utsugi]

Sauron coming in with the trufacts

[Mathdino]

Yo so all good wagons should have scum on them because multiball.

Raya's vote, while possibly coming from scum, was fine. L-1 is a scummy place to vote because you get blamed for any hammers. I actually think she's town.

I talked about the meta thing before. You're likely to find that I change my playstyle based on the setup more than my alignment. But you can at least get an impression of how I think and how I come to my opinions, which might be useful.

It's definitely town momo.

You're not gonna get more content from Assemble just because you're voting him.

[Almost50]

Archwing:

God! Beef is so scummy I can't even. Let me vote Assemble.

Obviously, this looks scummy AS HELL on level surface, but I don't think a Scum buddy would do this at this point. If Beef is lynched and flips Scum; Arch would be the default lynch for many.

I'd suspect Kotoko more though if Beef flips Scum. Her vote on Assemble is more subtle than Arch's and both serve to derail the Beef wagon smh. (Not totally excluding Arch, but just saying it's unlikely).

The other scum pair appear to be Jay+Raya (not too confident there, but it looks promising). I thought Jay may have been Scum with Beef, but if so then a distancing attempt went out of proportion and Jay got stuck on the wagon.

So, I'm going into the night with Jay/Ray as one scum team and Beef/Kotoko as the other team (which is obviously bollocks if Beef is lynched and flips Town)

[momo]

If this ^^^ is correct...I will nom you for paragon

[JaydragonKing]

... How in the fuck did you read me and Raya as even closely related?

[davesaz]

^ Scum reaction?

[Mathdino]

Yeah he's not correct. Jay/Raya is a weird team. Tbh out of the Beef wagon A50 is my biggest suspect but w/e.

Anyway, we just need to hear from Dunnstral and Talon before we get a hammer right?

[JaydragonKing]

^ Scum reaction?

Well fuck you too Dave.

[Archwing]

Archwing: God! Beef is so scummy I can't even. Let me vote Assemble.

Great misrep! Did you also notice the part where I said Beef's wagon was shit, and I don't actually think he's scum?

[Almost50]

Anyone can ISO Jay/Ray simultaneously to see how it's not so far fetched to put the two in the same basket. Raya only has posted thrice after all, so it's not hard to see what I see.

[JaydragonKing]

UNVOTE:

Almost and Dave just made me feel uneasy about this shit now. Appearantly I have two separate scum partners in their mind. I'm going to look at some other options.

[Almost50]

Archwing: God! Beef is so scummy I can't even. Let me vote Assemble.

Great misrep! Did you also notice the part where I said Beef's wagon was shit, and I don't actually think he's scum?

I did. Now did you notice where I said YOU were scumy but I don't think you're Scum? (That would've been a better response if you really wanted to make me look bad)

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

Almost and Dave just made me feel uneasy about this shit now. Appearantly I have two separate scum partners in their mind. I'm going to look at some other options.

Who did dave associate you with? I must've missed it.

And how does me accusing you of being Scum with Ray make you feel uneasy about your vote on Beef?????

[JaydragonKing]

Dave just decided to point an arrow saying "scum reaction" is what made him uneasy to me. You looking for a weird and probably non-existent connection between me and Raya made me uneasy about you.

Beef is a valid option but now I'm seeing that we can also eliminate another possible scum who's causing paranoia among everyone.

[Mathdino]

Jay's play was confusing me so I did a quick meta dive. Their play seems to be closest to the town play I saw in a few of their games. They seem a lot more relaxed as town whereas as scum they seem to be a little more tryhardy and not as relaxed and fluffy. I'll give a slight town lean but I'm still going to keep an eye on them since I find their play really hard to read.

This is the only interaction/mention before A50 called it out.

Yeah, cuz scum opens the day with a mini-case on their own partner.

Nope.

[Archwing]

And how does me accusing you of being Scum with Ray make you feel uneasy about your vote on Beef?????

Yeah this pinged me. That was a pretty bad unvote IMO, or at least, a bad reason for it.

I did. Now did you notice where I said YOU were scumy but I don't think you're Scum? (That would've been a better response if you really wanted to make me look bad)

Yes, I did. My intent there was not to make you look bad, although if that was a side effect, then that's wonderful. You are not my target right now.

[davesaz]

Dave just decided to point an arrow saying "scum reaction" is what made him uneasy to me.

You left out the question mark, which is extremely important.
I'm commenting strictly on your reaction. If this connection is nonexistent why react so strongly to it?