♥ ♠ Open 711: Stack The Deck - Game Over ♣ ♦

[Mathdino]

the worst had surprisingly good reads for someone vigshot

NSG and skitter definitely did well for going against general town consensus in chasing their scumreads. I can see a universe where Montosh gets lynched, lego pulled a guilty on N_M, and Jay gets lynched for still being alive on D5.

Ultimately, the cop counterclaim fiasco did town in. I thought Sky was pretty town by play, but I had the benefit of omniscience xD

[Montosh]

Yeah Jay was kinda on a timer there, and I was getting more lynchable by the second, so Jay and I kinda just went all in Day 3.

From a town POV I really do think no-lynch would still have been a bad move not knowing that Jay was scum.

[Sky_Paladin]

Ultimately, the cop counterclaim fiasco did town in.

This sadly is true :C I'm still in denial about it but I'm just X__X

[JaydragonKing]

I kept the footsie game at the end to make sure Montosh was actually staying around before I submitted my vote too. That exchange was fun.

[skitter30]

I argue that a lynch of Not Mafia would have been the correct move, as Jay would have 0 excuse for still being alive D4, AND we'd be down a scum ^_~ But I would have trainwrecked us in the next day phase because I would have pushed hard for a Screen lynch :/

I'd argue that a vig on creature slot or nm slot probably would have been the best play, which iirc I was advocating way back when, but yeah

p-edit: yeah I just couldn't concieve town!sky cc'ing because it was such a bizarre thing to do from a town pov as all it accomplished was outing a pr.

And then the the vig/nk/bg clusterfuck n1. Between the two of those town cohesion basically got majorly messed up.

p-edit: I wanted to leave all the claism alive and lynch montosh and let nk's sort it out at least partially. But then sky retracted so it wouldn't have worked anymore lol

[Espeonage]

@Esp I really thought that I'd be the target that last night, what made you choose Una?

Occams

So night 1 I was looking at a list of all town which kinda sucked, I ironically picked the worst of them thought all things considered. Any of the others wouldn't have messed up the game so hard.

Night 2 my list was you, Jay and then later Una. I also looked at NSG because it seemed like irrational white knighting but I didn't want to make a reads based kill because my reads were off. You were on there because of worst, Jay was on there because the flip was starting to feel required, and una was on there bc of the 'block'.

[Mathdino]

A speedy no lynch would've been the correct move today

I argue that a lynch of Not Mafia would have been the correct move, as Jay would have 0 excuse for still being alive D4, AND we'd be down a scum ^_~ But I would have trainwrecked us in the next day phase because I would have pushed hard for a Screen lynch :/

@Sky/Montosh:

The problem is that town DIDN'T know Jay was scum, and there was the small chance that
1. Jay-blocker could block a kill, while
2. An as-of-yet unrevealed Cop/Tracker finds scum.

Since you guys didn't know if there was a Cop/Tracker out there, that extra night could've saved town. And in the universe where Jay is town and just get shot by mafia, at least it tables that constant paranoia of Creature's slot.

No lynch is bad if someone is SUPER CONFIRMED TOWN. But Jay wasn't confirmed town by any means; he was just treated as such.

[Espeonage]

I argue that a lynch of Not Mafia would have been the correct move, as Jay would have 0 excuse for still being alive D4, AND we'd be down a scum ^_~ But I would have trainwrecked us in the next day phase because I would have pushed hard for a Screen lynch :/

I'd argue that a vig on creature slot or nm slot probably would have been the best play, which iirc I was advocating way back when, but yeah

p-edit: yeah I just couldn't concieve town!sky cc'ing because it was such a bizarre thing to do from a town pov as all it accomplished was outing a pr.

And then the the vig/nk/bg clusterfuck n1. Between the two of those town cohesion basically got majorly messed up.

p-edit: I wanted to leave all the claism alive and lynch montosh and let nk's sort it out at least partially. But then sky retracted so it wouldn't have worked anymore lol

I would never shoot a policy when there is any chance of game breaking. If you wanted anyone that wasn't universally townread to be killed night 1 you need a different person playing vig.

[JaydragonKing]

I'm going to get a huge ego check when I finally lose my first scum game. But then again, I seem to be continuously improving, especially compared to even a month ago.

4/0 Scum Record baby!

[Mathdino]

I gotta say, I cracked the fuck up when I saw that both mafia AND vig decided to shoot the worst, WHILE A50 GUARDED HIM (A50 thought the worst was vig)

I got a bit of FOMO a few times through the game, thinking "Oh man it would be so cool to be playing/talking strategy at this point" . I hope it was as fun for you guys to play as it was for me to watch.

Always open to any feedback on moderation and whatnot. First time for everything!

[Sky_Paladin]

I think you modded perfectly; there were no screw up's and tallies were available for a good chunk of the game. The balance was fair I think, and the flavor added a nice touch

[Montosh]

It was definitely a fun game, the early claiming action made it pretty interesting and there was a lot going on.

I think you did a great job Math, you were well and present in our scum chat if I needed clarification for a rule so I appreciated that. Plus a good number of accurate VCs.

And I really liked your flavour. It was nice to read but not overdone.

[Mathdino]

Thanks! The flavour was super fun to search for. But oh man is there always that constant fear of screwing up xD

Stack The Deck holds a special place in my heart for being my first innocent child game and the closest game I got to a "perfect" victory . Semi-opens are interesting to strategise for.

Interestingly had the worst not been quicklynched, Espeonage and Jay could actually have directly confirmed each other by targeting each other. If Espeonage's kill goes through, Jay is scum (obviously). If it doesn't, either Espeonage is lying about being a vig, or Jay accurately blocked his shot.

Sometimes the mechanical decision is actually the correct one, but it needs some teamwork to execute

[Espeonage]

I gotta say, I cracked the fuck up when I saw that both mafia AND vig decided to shoot the worst, WHILE A50 GUARDED HIM (A50 thought the worst was vig)

I got a bit of FOMO a few times through the game, thinking "Oh man it would be so cool to be playing/talking strategy at this point" . I hope it was as fun for you guys to play as it was for me to watch.

Always open to any feedback on moderation and whatnot. First time for everything!

Why did A50 block two kills?

[JaydragonKing]

Espeonage, how do you like what my "Survivor" style evolved into? Pretty fun, huh?

[Espeonage]

It really badly hurts your town play though.

[Mathdino]

Good question. You and A50 submitted your actions early, and mafia had the worst in their NK-pool a few hours into the night, so I had time to check with LlamaFluff (shouts out to the leaving listmod!)

The Bodyguard PM is worded such that rather than blocking a nightkill, it instead dies in the target's place if the target were to die at night. It thus resolves AFTER both kills; the mafia and vig shots kill the worst, and THEN A50 replaces the worst's death with his own.

[JaydragonKing]

Well my record clearly shows that. But I'm getting better, at least.

Nine completed games: 5 victories, and 4 of them being my scum games and my one town win being when I died day one for doing the same exact thing I did here.

[skitter30]

Yeah I was puzzling through the mess that was n1 after the worst flip and I sent a list of questions to Math about what would happen in various scenarios lol (if a bg protected someone, and a vig shot the same person, and in the interest of being thorough, if a strongman shot them too),

[Espeonage]

Good question. You and A50 submitted your actions early, and mafia had the worst in their NK-pool a few hours into the night, so I had time to check with LlamaFluff (shouts out to the leaving listmod!)

The Bodyguard PM is worded such that rather than blocking a nightkill, it instead dies in the target's place if the target were to die at night. It thus resolves AFTER both kills; the mafia and vig shots kill the worst, and THEN A50 replaces the worst's death with his own.

Not understanding this factored in to shooting Una.

[JaydragonKing]

I figured out the wording factor and that it COULD double protect when I realized you shot him too. But I pounced on the fact nobody elsa had that info.

[Mathdino]

And I wish I could've clarified it in the game thread without mod spewing what the actions were!

That said, Llama and I ended up agreeing that the answer to the NK questions are self-evident in the Bodyguard's PM.

It was a really weird 2 nights for sure.

[Espeonage]

It's a critique of myself not of you math. You modded well.

[Mathdino]

Mod PT link fixed.

[skitter30]

Subject: Open 711: The House (Mod PT)

Today might come down to who Jay claims to have roleblocked. From Espe's perspective, the singular kill means either he or mafia were blocked. If Jay claims that he blocked Espe, Jay can be "confirmed town".

From scum's perspective, they know there's no roleblocker, so they know that A50 protected the worst. To them, a vig doesn't exist yet.

Yeah I realized this and I was going to go back and try to reread day2 with this in mind but keeping track of like four layers of what various people could've known when depending on if they were town, scum, or unrecruited traitor was getting kinda confusing and so I wasn't really able to come to any conclusions from this.

I just settled for noting that scum would be behaving weirdly around the tvt of the worst and esp and that's pretty much what solidified the montosh scumread.