Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[Tchill13]

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

[Not_Mafia]

I don't think Beef is flipping town anyway, I just can't see a mafia configuration in Espe/Thor/Montosh. Maybe Espe Montosh I guess

[Tchill13]

I'm trying hard to be able to reevaluate reads based on actions but I don't understand why I should be the kill under any circumstances.

[Not_Mafia]

Happy scumday

[Beefster]

@Beefster - without using your role PM as the reasoning, how does Thor/Esp make more sense than Beefster/Esp?
I'll also accept Tchill/Esp if you can't handle the above, I'm just making a point.

I'll take a look. I mean Beef/Esp makes sense from a distancing type of perspective based on our interactions. I believe we've both had votes on each other at some point and I'll admit I look pretty scummy due to my pathological laziness.
Esp has soft associatives on Thor due to not voting him until today, then switching over to me not long after. I don't think he'd jump off a mislynch to bus at this stage of the game. So in that regard, almost anything makes more sense than Beef/Esp.
Thor/Beef honestly makes more sense than either.

Not_Mafia has voted just about everyone at some point.

My conclusions:

• Unless Thor is pulling a gambit, he can't be a wolf because he would have gone for a skitter mislynch instead of killing him. I townread him for most of the game, which leaves me more confused.
  
• I could see Esp wolf due to RVS vote on wilky and reluctant vote on him yesterday, but I'd still bet more on Montosh being the wolf.
  
• Esp and N_M are probably different alignments based on Esp's interaction, so a Esp/NM mafia team makes no sense. I can't really see that being staged.
  
• I think Tchill is town for redeeming the slot. Korina's frustration could have been genuine. Immature and unsportsmanlike, but genuine.
  
• I'm town

These can't all be true, so one of them has to be false. Problem is, I'm not sure which it is.

The easiest domino to fall would be that Esp is actually the wolf. This would imply that the mafia pair is Montosh and Not_Mafia/Thor. I'd probably bet more on Thor.

VOTE: Espeonage

[Beefster]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

[Tchill13]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

[Not_Mafia]

multiball + endgame paranoia is really annoying this game

[Tchill13]

I agree.

[Thor665]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

@TChill - why are you Mafia hunting?

[Montosh]

I was arguing that only beef could be town from that whole group. As in I agreed with the rest of his scum reads but would argue beef being scum.

So you were scumreading wilky, skitter and myself at that point, and soft scumreading beef?

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

Yet I am the wolf for essentially the same actions?

[Montosh]

My conclusions:

• I could see Esp wolf due to RVS vote on wilky and reluctant vote on him yesterday, but
  I'd still bet more on Montosh being the wolf
  .

Why?

I think Tchill is town for redeeming the slot. Korina's frustration could have been genuine. Immature and unsportsmanlike, but genuine.

As a response to this, i'll quote an earlier post of mine:

Eh, scum can just as easily be frustrated with a wagon. I don't get this fascination with frustration as a towntell that some people seem to have, everyone has differing emotional tolerances. And survivalism is most certainly not a towntell at all. Scum do not want to be lynched, often more than town, since it better furthers their win condition.

[Tchill13]

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

[Thor665]

Yeah, I think Tchill is probably some flavor of scum.

Unvote: Montosh

Montosh is try-harding so well it's really selling me right now.
So if Espe is town for the slip, and Montosh is town for actually trying to sort anything in the phase most important for town to sort stuff since game start - that's the three town.
But that means I'm totally wrong about one of them, or I'm wrong about N_M and the odds of bussing.

So for me the real question is - does TChill/Beefster make sense?
I think my town read I'm most likely to be wrong on is Espe, as that slip is absolutely within his scum game both as an intentional fake slip and as a 'derpa-dee!' real accidental slip.

@N_M - you bussing, is that worth clearing you over or is it within your town game to aggressive bus? I want to hear some self meta.

[Thor665]

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

Probably because he has been by people you haven't been randomly sheeping.

[Not_Mafia]

We've played a Jungle Republic game where I bussed before

[Not_Mafia]

Here's the game

[Beefster]

Bussing requires context. People don't usually go out of their way to bus.

[Tchill13]

Bussing requires context. People don't usually go out of their way to bus.

Well if you wanted to be a good player then that's exactly why you'd bus out of context

[Thor665]

@N_M - I don't want to give you up and hurt you either, but you're ducking the question, why?

[Thor665]

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

I'm going to revisit this question a bit more seriously now, especially considering how it curls my toes slightly that this question came right after I said I was going to look at the two of you in context to each other.

@Espeo
@Tchill

There was some mild attention from the Espeo slot against the Tchill slot when the Tchill slot was Korina.
After that, Espeo threw up the soft little policy/replace stance that went nowhere fast.
After that you both basically stopped interacting and both of you had the other as soft town for no readily discernible reason.

Can both of you explain from your own perspective your overall thoughts towards the other during the game and how/if they changed?
Because if I was saying policy or replace I feel like I would have needed a revelation not to have that be a thing for me going forward.

[Espeonage]

Well tbf I didn't post the rest of that day because it ended pretty quick at the end and they weren't active days for me. (I'm most active at work.)

And after the A50 wagon which I kinda spearheaded withoutbeing on it, and chil''s support in that, I kinda figured I'd been brash. I've done some dick moves as scum and I was kinda holding a grudge for a loss I felt was undeserved.

Also you are kinda glossing over the fact that I have beef and chill close in my lynch pool for ww. I don't see chill as maf after the way he pushed A50 without any obligation but I can see ww.

[Espeonage]

Also Thor, sell me on this Montosh turnaround because I don't see it.

The activity under the pressure at the start of the day feels reminisce of BuJ, and as the pressure dissipates, the play quality goes up. Does that not count as scum points instead of the opposite?

[Espeonage]

I was arguing that only beef could be town from that whole group. As in I agreed with the rest of his scum reads but would argue beef being scum.

So you were scumreading wilky, skitter and myself at that point, and soft scumreading beef?

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

Yet I am the wolf for essentially the same actions?

?

[Not_Mafia]

@N_M - I don't want to give you up and hurt you either, but you're ducking the question, why?

I answered