Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[Espeonage]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

1. I'm assuming people are also somewhat on the same page as me here and calling beef ww over mafia.
2. The not paying attention to simple details is the exact behaviour that led to my lynch as miller, which was a wagon spearheaded by chill.

However, Beef never bussed wilky if ww, which is still a touch above. But I could lynch either because it's a fucking coinflip.

[Thor665]

Also Thor, sell me on this Montosh turnaround because I don't see it.

The activity under the pressure at the start of the day feels reminisce of BuJ, and as the pressure dissipates, the play quality goes up. Does that not count as scum points instead of the opposite?

For the Montosh turnaround - if anyone else felt slightly close to the effort he was putting into gamesolving it probably wouldn't have swayed me. But his stance paired with his position as regards the Beef wagon feels more likely to be town than wolf to me - why do you not get that at all?

As to your TChill situation - why didn't you interact with him much for werewolf sorting even if you did clear him as Mafia?

@N_M - I don't want to give you up and hurt you either, but you're ducking the question, why?

I answered

The extent of your answer was 'I bus' without actually providing any meta.
Everyone buses to some level - that's not what I asked you.
You're literally sitting around doing nothing - you're not even trying to advance your scumreads - why do you care so little at such a pivotal point?

[Espeonage]

I haven't interacted much with Beef either. But I made my PoE clear.

And mostly because Montosh's play change also co-incides with our acceptance that the numbers favour a ww lynch. I have Montosh as second in mafia pool right now.

[Thor665]

So your theory is Montosh is mafia, came under suspicion as a werewolf, and upped his game when he realized Mafia should favor a werewolf lynch?
He seems to be doing a decent amount of Mafia hunting though, which is not how I would describe some other scumspects play (like, specifically, TChill) so why aren't you twigging there in any way? Or are you twigging but just taking exception to Montosh being town piled by me for some reason?

[Tchill13]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

1. I'm assuming people are also somewhat on the same page as me here and calling beef ww over mafia.
2. The not paying attention to simple details is the exact behaviour that led to my lynch as miller, which was a wagon spearheaded by chill.

However, Beef never bussed wilky if ww, which is still a touch above. But I could lynch either because it's a fucking coinflip.

You need to stop worrying about that other game. I was SCUM. You were TOWN. We were DIFFERENT alignments with DIFFERENT win conditions.

[Tchill13]

If it came down to beef or montosh I think montosh is the way to go.

Effort shouldn't be his saving grace.

[Beefster]

I'm pretty sure Montosh is scum one way or the other. Whether he flips wolf or mafia would help with identifying the other two scum. If he flips wolf, we go after Thor. If he flips mafia, we go after Esp (wolf) and then NM.

I guess I can say the same about Esp except I think he could be town.

[Beefster]

VOTE: Montosh

[Thor665]

Effort shouldn't be his saving grace.

What's your reasoning for lynching him?
Last I checked you were voting Beef but unvoted when someone suggested he was less likely Mafia, I asked you about that and you never responded, and now you have an issue with me thinking Montosh is town, and now Beef (who you may or may not wolfread, i have no idea) has voted him.

Like, see, the nice thing with Montosh is I could actually describe to you where he stands currently, even if I don't fully agree with it.
I can't do that with a lot of the rest of you.

That sort of effort *is* pretty telling in my opinion.

[Tchill13]

No i think montosh is ww and beef is scum.

[Thor665]

Why are you not voting either of them?
Are you just hunting for the last Mafia or something else?

[Thor665]

Effort shouldn't be his saving grace.

What's your reasoning for lynching him?

[Espeonage]

vote: chill

[Tchill13]

VOTE: beef

[Thor665]

I feel like half this game is just starting to randomly vote people to see what catches.

[Thor665]

@Espeo - why the Tchill vote right there?

@Montosh - semi-crazy theory but I'm feeling it right now; Tchill is the wolf, he's mafia hunting, ducked explaining why, has actually kind of avoided voting you all phase despite calling you the wolf. What are your thoughts on that case and would you move off Espeo to pursue it?

[Espeonage]

Because it is either chill or beef today as per our earlier convo. And I have building scumfuck on chill. Beef's little AtE is kinda hitting me.

[Montosh]

Well tbf I didn't post the rest of that day because it ended pretty quick at the end and they weren't active days for me. (I'm most active at work.)

And after the A50 wagon which I kinda spearheaded withoutbeing on it, and chil''s support in that, I kinda figured I'd been brash. I've done some dick moves as scum and I was kinda holding a grudge for a loss I felt was undeserved.

Also you are kinda glossing over the fact that I have beef and chill close in my lynch pool for ww. I don't see chill as maf after the way he pushed A50 without any obligation but I can see ww.

Well I didn't see you say much about chill before this post. Actually you seem to be under the assumption that we have some way of knowing your opinions without actually posting them.

I'll ask you a question then, who is in your mafia lynch pool and why?

Also Thor, sell me on this Montosh turnaround because I don't see it.

The activity under the pressure at the start of the day feels reminisce of BuJ, and as the pressure dissipates, the play quality goes up. Does that not count as scum points instead of the opposite?

That's not what happened at all. The pressure on Bujaber did not dissipate because the play quality suddenly increased from him, it dissipated because A50 replaced into the slot and people let up for a bit because they didn't feel like lynching someone who just replaced in.

The reasons for my increase in posting Day 4 are as follows:

1. We have fewer people left and flips from both factions, and so I feel like I have a better idea of how to sort people and gamesolve without shooting around in the dark a lot.
2. I've been off school for a week, granting me some more time.

Now, I'm fine with you dismissing my increase is posting, but what exactly places me in your mafia pool?

If it came down to beef or montosh I think montosh is the way to go.

Effort shouldn't be his saving grace.

VOTE: beef

So I'm the better lynch, but you're going to vote beef. Are you even going to care a little about consistency?

Why am I a wolf? Explain it to me. Give me details and quotes. Actually put some opinions out there rather than sheeping.
More importantly, there's pretty much a consensus that lynching the WW is a good idea. Do you disagree with it? If so, why are you not voting your wolf read?

Here's one explanation. You're a wolf, and you really don't want to lynch your 'wolf read' because then all the people saying I'm obvwolf are going to start re-evaluating everything, including you. Why is this not the case?

@thor I'll get to your question.

[Montosh]

I was arguing that only beef could be town from that whole group. As in I agreed with the rest of his scum reads but would argue beef being scum.

So you were scumreading wilky, skitter and myself at that point, and soft scumreading beef?

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

Yet I am the wolf for essentially the same actions?

@tchill Please answer these q

[Montosh]

I was arguing that only beef could be town from that whole group. As in I agreed with the rest of his scum reads but would argue beef being scum.

So you were scumreading wilky, skitter and myself at that point, and soft scumreading beef?

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

Yet I am the wolf for essentially the same actions?

@tchill Please answer these questions. I'd specifically like references to posts where you mention any of these people as scumreads before the posts I referenced originally.

I'd especially like this with regards to wilky, and for you to answer my question "why the turn on wilky?", when you had seemed inclined to defend him and go after N_M not long before.

I would also appreciate you expanding upon why those actions clear you as WW but similar actions indict me as WW.

[Montosh]

Sorry about 1018, thought I hit preview.

[Montosh]

@Montosh - semi-crazy theory but I'm feeling it right now; Tchill is the wolf, he's mafia hunting, ducked explaining why, has actually kind of avoided voting you all phase despite calling you the wolf. What are your thoughts on that case and would you move off Espeo to pursue it?

I'm definitely feeling it to some extent. Tchill has mostly been a general scumread, but he pings me as a wolf specifically for a few reasons:

1. Going along with leash werewolf idea. I thought it made N_M scummy as a WW for proposing it, but if it's within N_M to propose an idea like that as town, then I could see ww!chill sheeping a fairly pro-WW idea like that.
2. His interactions with wilky Day 3. He appeared to be on the verge of defending wilky but then pretty suddenly switches his stance and sheeps N_M's vote.
3. I've got Esp as a mafia read at this point, and I think the whole policy replace out if we don't lynch affair makes it a lot less likely that they're the same alignment.

A lot of this is conditional on tchill being able to answer my (and other's) questions and actually describe his own stance

[Thor665]

@Beef
@N_M

How about each of you weigh in with your thoughts on Tchill as a theory wolf also? You're both too quiet and I'm bored.

[Not_Mafia]

What's the vc?

[Thor665]

Not really sure.
If anyone is at L-1 right now it's probably Beef.

I'm not currently voting, I think Tchill has 1-2 votes on him, and Espeo might have 1 on him.