Open 716: Making Friends and Enemies [Game Over]

[Something_Smart]

I also townread AS

Why

[Something_Smart]

Oh wow this is a good point. S_S probably town because this would be some wonky SvS
VOTE: BuJaber

Also wtf is this logic

[davesaz]

Which alignment benefits from misconceptions? Given that answer which alignment is motivated to fix misconceptions?

[davesaz]

I don't see an issue with ge there. What do you think is wrong with it?

[Something_Smart]

Which alignment forms misconceptions?

[Gamma Emerald]

I also townread AS

Why

I feel like their logic is pretty sensible

[Something_Smart]

It's not. BuJaber thought that I was arguing that the phrasing "objectively scummy" is used by scum to try to mislynch people because of their playstyle, and he was trying to refute that argument.

[Something_Smart]

This is about pops's logic btw

[Something_Smart]

I got a bit confused btw. I'm talking about pops's argument on Bu and Gamma's subsequent vote. My issue with Gamma's logic was just that he seemed to have Bu suddenly lockscum.

[davesaz]

Which alignment forms misconceptions?

For the point i was trying to make it doesn't matter where it comes from. A says something and b takes a tangent. C letting b take the tangent is more likely scum than d correcting the tangent. In this game I've been D correcting the tangent a lot. This is for the benefit of the misguided folk who may scumread me for it. The scum who try to mislynch will then have a harder time.

It's just info but it's something i can do productive on phone.

[davesaz]

Oh you thought it was about your point - nope. I'll look at that later.

[Aster]

Prodding Kop.

[Aster]

Vote Count 1.6

Votee	Voters
BuJaber (4)	GuiltyLion (177), Mathdino (360), popsofctown (415), Gamma Emerald (422)
verydark (3)	Kmd4390 (22), northsidegal (54), Agent Sparkles (233)
Myloninja13 (2)	Kop (253), davesaz (266)
davesaz (1)	BuJaber (409)
Gamma Emerald (1)	verydark (300)

Not voting:

Myloninja13, Something_Smart

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Fixed, hopefully.

[Something_Smart]

Yo Aster, Sando isn't in the game anymore

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm also voting BuJaber, not Sando or Something_Smart

[davesaz]

@mod pops is voting bujaber

[Something_Smart]

Vote Count 1.6

Temporarily removed: something went seriously wrong and shall be fixed.

Lol

[GuiltyLion]

Someone explicitly townread Agent Sparkles, not sure why.

GL did so in 178, which did stick out as weird to me.

the main thing was that I've played with Agent Sparkles before, we were both scum together, and I felt like he was playing more obviously transparent/genuine in his opening here than in that game. It's a pretty weak reason to townread him and not something I'd swear by - especially because that was one of his first games and he's likely a better player now - but I just wanted to start town-binning to try to put some PoE pressure on scum. if AS is town then I think people discrediting townreads on him (on D1) may be useful information later

[GuiltyLion]

It's not.

BuJaber thought that I was arguing that the phrasing "objectively scummy" is used by scum

to try to mislynch people because of their playstyle, and he was trying to refute that argument.

see but I think it's valid to think that scum!BuJaber is more likely to assume this than town!BuJaber. I feel like a townie would be more inclined to continue defending their reasoning, rather than jump to defending their alignment.

[GuiltyLion]

I forgot to vote VOTE: dave

BuJaber - what's your current read on verydark? I'm puzzled that you left a leading wagon to make a vanity vote here without giving us an update on your verydark scumread

[GuiltyLion]

oh and one other reason for townreading AS was that he did my pet "make one read in the process of catching up and then flip it a few posts later" towntell when he went from scum-leaning me in 152 to town leaning me in 158. Most scum don't bother to fake that especially since I wasn't a focal point at that stage in the game

[Mathdino]

GL who the fuck is the scumteam

we can't all be town

[Kop]

I'm not fully caught up, but this post did catch my eye. He has simply echoed everybody elses thoughts about Dark, and voted on it as it's a wagon that has momentum. It is the easiest wagon to join because it's getting very little resistance.

However, I do agree with your sentiments regarding the town block, but I won't go as far as suspecting them right now. I'd rather lynch outside of that town block, it'll all come down to process of elimination.

What did you like about Pops #139, what gave you town vibes? I read that post and I didn't see anything that would give me town vibes, or little one at that.

if you're not disagreeing with the reasons for verydark being scum this rings pretty hollow. if you think there are good reasons for the verydark wagon, what's scummy about agreeing with them? if you don't think so, why not?

(chainsaw, anyone?)

I have read through all of this, and feel thoroughly empty of opinions.

I'll read through it again when I'm a bit clearer in the head, but I agree that Mason-hunting and association-hunting should be avoided completely. Not sure how I feel about verydark lynch, I think I give a slight town lean. I'm liking Mathditto, but that's about the extent of what I got from that.

This feels fake and forced.

VOTE: Mylonninja

In what way? i think town is very decently more likely to make a post like that than scum – scum are forced to come up with false pushes eventually anyways, so i'd think scum would just start out by doing so and either come up with a false push or follow a push already happening. outside of a deliberate play for getting towncred, there's not a lot of benefit as scum to saying that you don't really have reads.

what about that is "forced"?

I don't disagree with the wagon, but the manner of his vote and echoing thoughts just tells me that he's gone for the easiest wagon, without any of his thoughts, and won't look bad on him as it would be others that would get the scrutiny if it's wrong. If he jumped onto the wagon with other reasons other than the ones put forward from others, it wouldn't give me the impression I'm getting.

As for the fake and forced, he's had to make a post just to make it appear that he has read the game, but has zero opinions. As for the forced bit, he can't actively lurk the entire game, and as scum, sometimes it's hard to form an opinion when your overwhelmed by the content that is in the game. He simply could have stated he was struggling but ask for suggestions that could help him view the game. His reads don't really appease my views on it, as he's simply gone on to state a town read on Mathdino which majority do, and a slight town lean on someone who's under heavy scrutiny. He could have easily gone after the wagon that's on Dark and tried to pick out who he believes could scum, and hasn't specifically said why it's a bad wagon. That's what I'd do if I didn't like a particular wagon.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not trying to nail a 3p scumteam on D1. I'd currently lynch BuJaber and verydark in that order probably, then hunt for a 3rd in Mylo/Kmd/pops/davesaz depending on flips. If either of the current leading wagons are scum, I don't think there's any bussing in the 1.6 vote count.

[popsofctown]

Like I think those 12 words are the scummiest thing in the whole game.

Only twelve of them? The other three are fine?

Also I disagree. He obviously interpreted an attack on his REASONING as an attack on his MOTIVATION, but (excluding overly paranoid scum which pretty much never happens) I don't see why scum is more likely to make that mistake.

Because justifying his reasoning, convincing you to help him lynch daveScum, and then doing so with you accomplishes the town wincon of "no scum players are alive and at least one townie lives"!?!?! Maybe that one?!?!? The one where his behavior maps to a Survivor's wincon and doesn't map to the town wincon?!?! That part!?!? That's the whole part. All 15 out of 15 parts.

Speaking of parts, this is the part where you should bus instead of pretending to politely disagree about a townread on a player who is not even in the discussion for today's lynch, then cuddling afterwards