Open 718: MLOASR - Game Over


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Open 718: MLOASR - Game Over

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Open 718: Maintaining Law, Order and Shallow Relationships

Rules

[01] VOTING METHOD: Votes must be in bold or use vote tags. example:
Vote: Player
VOTE: Player If you do not bold your vote or use tags, it will not be counted. You do not have to
unvote
before casting another vote, but it would be appreciated.

[02] LYNCH: Lynching will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, any attempts to unvote will be unheeded.

[03] NO LYNCH: You may
vote: no lynch
– unless it is deadline, majority votes of this kind are necessary to end the day without a death.

[04] DEADLINE: This game will have mandatory deadlines of 2n+1 where "n" is the number of living players. If I deem it necessary a player being replaced may extend the deadline.

[05] DEADLINE LYNCH RULES: At deadline, a person will be lynched if they have a majority of voters voting for them. That means you can be lynched with just one vote if only one person is voting. If no one has a majority of the votes cast, it is a no-lynch.

[06] NIGHT CHOICES: Night choices need to be submitted within 72 hours of night starting.

[07] LURKING AND NOT POSTING: Lurking is not an acceptable strategy in this game. Anyone who goes more than 72 hours without posting, without advance warning, will be prodded. Failure to post in the 48 hours following a prod or excessive prods will result in a player being replaced. Mafia is a social contract. Everyone is expected to give information and comment to be analyzed. If this is uncomfortable for you, consider taking up solitaire instead.

[08] OUT OF THREAD COMMUNICATION: The game is not to be discussed outside the thread unless your role specifically states that you may do so – and then only in the manner stated in your role PM. Don’t quote any out-of-thread communications regarding this game in the thread, this includes role PMs.

[09] BAH POSTS ARE ALLOWED: Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. You may absolutely make one "Bah" post. It should be short and should contain absolutely no game related opinion or information.

[10] TOO CLEVER BY HALF RULE: No small or hidden text or obscure codes. Don’t edit/delete previously submitted posts either.

[11] VACATION? LIMITED ACCESS? If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in this game thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

[12] FALLIBILITY CLAUSE: Unlike other mods I am fallible. Please point out any mistakes I make gently. In particular, if I post a vote count that does not accurately reflect your vote, it is your responsibility to correct me -- otherwise your vote may be treated as it appears in the vote count.

[13] QUESTIONS: If you have any questions at all, please PM me or post the question in the thread.

[14] HUSH NOW, QUIET NOW: Excessive use of CAPS POSTING or spamming posts will not be allowed and may result in replacement without warning.

[15] GAMBLERS ANON: No bets, deals, promises, etc are allowed. Depending on the severity of one you may be modkilled or forceably replaced.

[16] IF IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK: If you fake breaking a rule, it will result in the same punishment as actually breaking the rule.

[17] FUN: Remember, it’s a game and it’s supposed to be fun. Be nice to your fellow players and your mod. I have very low tolerance for abusive posts.

[18]
I've reserved this color for any purposes I might choose. Don't use it or anything similar to it.
Last edited by LlamaFluff on Thu May 03, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:21 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Players:

Alive (8)

[01] Almost50
[02] Myloninja13
[03] Aubrey
[04] Montosh
[05] Flubbernugget
Floosh

[06] RedFlavor
Ahsoka Tano

[08] Mathdino
Lalendra

[09] wilky

Dead (2)

[07] profii - Compulsive Visitor - Died Night One
[10] Iconeum
Aneninen
- Compulsive Visitor - Lynched Day Two
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:25 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

This is an Open Setup: Maintaining Law, Order and Shallow Relationships

Roles will be as follows:
2x Mafia One Shot Paranoid Gun Owner
1x Cop
1x Jailkeeper
6x Compulsive Visitor

Every player will receive one of the following roles:

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia 1-Shot Paranoid Gun Owner, along with your partner [Player Name].

Abilities:
Paranoid Gun Owner: During one night of your choice, you may arm yourself. If any players successfully target you that night, they will die.
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [Link].
Factional kill: Each night you or your partner may submit the name of a player to attempt to kill, regardless of whether you're armed.

Win condition:
You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Cop.

Abilities:
Investigate: Each night you may target another player to attempt to learn their alignment. If successful, you will receive a result of Town or Mafia

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Jailkeeper.

Abilities:
Jailkeep: Each night you may target another player to jailkeep them. If successful, they will be prevented from performing any active abilities, and will protect them from kils. This will not prevent a Mafia Paranoid Gun Owner from arming themselves.

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Compulsive Visitor.

Abilities:
Visit: Each night you must target another player to visit them. Your target will not be told who visited them. If you do not submit an action, your action will be randomized.

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:40 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

All roles have been submitted. Please confirm by PM.

Day one will begin in 48 hours: Sunday March 25th, 7PM PST
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:18 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

It is now day one.

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline for day one is April 15th, 8:30 PM PST
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:22 pm

Post by Ahsoka Tano »

I was waiting for this!
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:22 pm

Post by Ahsoka Tano »

VOTE: Floosh [/vote]
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:24 pm

Post by Montosh »

VOTE: Almost50

Can't die night 1 if you're lynched day 1 :lol:
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:36 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Everybody please read the following carefully and try to digest it well before you say anything. If you don't get it the first time, please try rereading afain BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING.

This is how I think it works best:

First step: WE WILL NO LYNCH. We need the numbes for this plan to work.

The Top 5 players each visits the one below them on the list, withe the exception of #5 who visits #1 instead. The bottom five visit the corresponding name from the top half.

Put simply:

Floosh + Ahsoka Tano >>>> [01] Almost50
Almost50 + profii >>>> [02] Myloninja13
Myloninja13 + Lalendra >>>> [03] Aubrey
Aubrey + wilky >>>> [04] Montosh
Montosh + Aneninen >>>> [05] Floosh
[06] Ahsoka Tano
[07] profii
[08] Lalendra
[09] wilky
[10] Aneninen

This forces Scum in the top 5 players (if any) NOT to activate their PGO, because it will kill two at once and thus is an explicit guilty. We are thus guaranteed a macimum of ONE death at night (or none if we're luckyb and the JK either blocks the killer or proects the target).

Now the first thing I expect someone to say is that scum won't follow the plan. So? They are still forced to NOT activate theor PGO anyway, and that's the point of the plan.

Now the COP doesn't fololow the plan either. They check someone from the bottom 5 9someone of their own choice, that is. And
they do NOT crumb beforehand
)

Now scum don't know who the Vop is, so they cannot activate the PGO still, lest they do kill the 2 targetting them and get caught.

That's the plan for N1

Most likely outcome: 1 NK + 1 Cop result (Cop only claims if they have a guilty though).

There will be 9 of us at the start of D2, and if we assign 2 random players to visit #6 and let both the Cop and the JK choose their own targets we are very likely to start D3 as 8 players with 2 innos, and if the Cop claims that's be 3 confirmed Townies + the JK (who may or may not be one of the two Cop innos) and the game should be easy from there on because the JK can protect the Cop while we lynch from the remaining pool.

I know this is NOT 100% guaranteed to work, but it maximnized our chances GREATLY, because we are forcing Scum not to make multiple kills on the same night.

Now please go back to reread the whole thing once more, and FGS do NOT crumb your role.

Thank you.

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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by Aubrey »

In general, I'm not opposed to setting up a plan for known visitations. It is however ingrained in me to never let a day go by, and not lynch someone unless threatened with a premature game end. I'm not a big numbers person, so I'm not seeing how the NK is crucial here. To refuse to have someone lynched just doesn't seem like a game that will force much activity and scum-hunting within that day phase.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:04 pm

Post by Ahsoka Tano »

I meam, I can follow that!

Not seeing the NL requirement tho
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:12 pm

Post by Almost50 »

In post 9, Aubrey wrote:In general, I'm not opposed to setting up a plan for known visitations. It is however ingrained in me to never let a day go by, and not lynch someone unless threatened with a premature game end. I'm not a big numbers person, so I'm not seeing how the NK is crucial here. To refuse to have someone lynched just doesn't seem like a game that will force much activity and scum-hunting within that day phase.
D1 is not as important in this setup, but the numbers are. If we are reduced to 9 we no longer can cover as many players as we would want to.

We can alter the plan to "everyone visits the player below them" if you really can't live with a No Lynch, but if we have 2 NKs we won't be able to tell which if the two was caused by the PGO effect, so we would have to take our chances and hope the 1st lynch if the two is on scum, because if it's not we're in LyLo already.

We start with 8 vs 2
One mislynch = 7 vs 2
2 NKs = 5 vs 2
One mislynch (of 2 suspects) = 4 vs 2
Now if the other Mafia activates and kills someone with their PGO and their NK is successful we already lose
If they don't we are @ 3 vs 2 and we lynch the 1st Mafia (2nd of the 2 suspects) and we are 3 vs 1
AGAIN, if the last Mafioso activates and kills we already lose..

So that additional person going into the night is actually VERY IMPORTANT for us. The No Lynch on D1 has far far more advantage to Town than an actual Lynch.

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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:14 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Also my original plan puts much weight on the Cop results, so the sooner we end the day the better. We don't want to give the scum a chance to sniff for the Cop and shoot them already

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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:17 pm

Post by Almost50 »

And on D2 the Cop doesn't out unless they have a guilty. That way even if they die on N2 we know who they visited on N1 so that person is clear when we know who the cop is.

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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:16 pm

Post by Myloninja13 »

Okay, this idea seems easy enough. It's basically a slightly more complicated version of follow the cop.

So once everyone has posted, we just vote no lynch and end the day there?
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:36 am

Post by profii »

I agree with the no lynch plan on 1 caveat.

Almost50 subs with one of the bottom 5. If he activates his PGO, he also NK's and gets 3 kills.

So, trust tell, please swap

As I've come up with the idea, not with me obviously.
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:39 am

Post by profii »

actually just re-read the setup, would you sacrifice yourself and leave your 1 mate in a 1v6 = probably not.

I'm happy with it as is.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:38 am

Post by Aubrey »

(Under the assumption we all agree with this plan)

I kinda wish you would have held onto this idea of yours until mid day, or closer to the end of day, just so some actual scum hunting would have gone down.

The fact we’re basically giving up a day, and a player, is unappealing. However there isn’t much scum hunting that will be profitable without the threat of a lynch.
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:54 am

Post by Lalendra »

I'm not a numbers person, I'm a gut-play kind of person, so I'm usually willing to follow someone who has put that much thought into the setup. I'm not sure what scum!A50 stands to gain from proposing this idea so I think I like it. I also am not usually a NL fan but I see where he's coming from in terms of how a mislynch is only going to hurt us.

Now what I don't understand is, assuming we all target as instructed etc., and scum doesn't activate PGO as you mentioned (because it would be near suicide to do so), how does this position us for D2? We get only one NK as mentioned, but if we don't couple this approach with scumhunting, how do we find scum? How do we tell the difference between a townie and a scum who didn't activate their ability? Do we basically just lather/rinse/repeat the above until the cop gets a guilty (which will probably guarantee the cop's death) and then try to find remaining scum?
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:51 am

Post by profii »

Actually Lalendra you are right, the numbers might be worth considering here:

let's assume that both scum being in the visit pile is too obvious when we get the double kills, but 1 on 1 off might be a sacrifice they are willing to make - let's see how this player out.


Day 1 = No lynch = 10 alive. (0% chance of scum death)
Night 1 = normal scum kill = 9 alive (0% chance of scum death)
Scenario 1 = Scum make a PGO gambit = 2 kills = 7 alive (0% chance of scum death)

Enter day 2: 2 scum vs 5 town.
Town are wholly confident of the gambit due to the double PGO kill and lynch the scum player = 6 alive (100% chance of scum death)
scum make a normal night kill = (1 scum v 4 town)
If I was the remaining scum and I knew the visitors were compulsive, I'd activate my PGO again here to try and get it down to 1v3

Enter day 3
Worst case scenario
1v3 - we mislynch, 1v2, scum kills, 1v1, draw.
Next worst case
1v4 - we mislynch, 1v3. scum kills and day 4 is a 2v1 finale.


That plan also considers no possibility of Cop/JK influence which would turn the game.
worst case scenario is cutting things fine though
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:29 am

Post by Montosh »

The main issue I see as of now is that the idea is to guarantee that each of our five visited players have two visitors, to ensure that a PGO kill would make us absolutely confident in who the scum was.

But:

- Cop/JK won't follow this plan, and they'll target whoever they want.

- Scum obviously can't follow the plan, and wouldn't, and probability says there

- This assumes all the visitors will come onboard this plan

Given that, we're talking 3 or 4 groups with 1 or less players in them at the minimum. profii's gone over the scenario in which a visited scum activates the PGO and is lynched, but what is a scum visited by one of these smaller groups does as well?

Well, scum kill the one person visiting them through PGo and then faction kill someone visiting another person. We go into Day 2 with 2 v 6. Two people are then under suspicion, the scum and the townie they tried to frame. So it's a 1 v 1. Worst case, we hit the townie, a kill goes through, and we're at 2 v 4, now we lynch the scum for sure, but then tonight it's 1 v 3, so scum only has to make one visit kill plus one faction kill to win.

I'm not sure how this compares to not going through with this plan though, will have to look more closely at that.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:00 am

Post by Aneninen »

V/LA
Sorry
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:05 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 17, Aubrey wrote:I kinda wish you would have held onto this idea of yours until mid day, or closer to the end of day, just so some actual scum hunting would have gone down.
Let me reiterate: This plan/idea puts weight on the COP being alive. If we lose the Cop on N1 we lose more than 50% of the plan's effectiveness.

It thus had to be put out for discussion (and hopefully approval) as early as possible.

You say we missed out on a chance to scum hunt and I say Scum missed out on a chance to PR hunt.

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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:19 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 18, Lalendra wrote:Now what I don't understand is, assuming we all target as instructed etc., and scum doesn't activate PGO as you mentioned (because it would be near suicide to do so), how does this position us for D2? We get only one NK as mentioned, but if we don't couple this approach with scumhunting, how do we find scum? How do we tell the difference between a townie and a scum who didn't activate their ability? Do we basically just lather/rinse/repeat the above until the cop gets a guilty (which will probably guarantee the cop's death) and then try to find remaining scum?
I have an idea on what to do on D2, but I don't want to preemptively tip scum on how to counter it. It all depends on the NK target (if that's me, you are free to do as you wish obviously, but don't forget the Cop will have a result anyway).

You see, when I played this setup first (about 2 years ago) I proposed a similar plan. Titus was scum and opposed the plan strongly and tried to lynch me for it. That lead to a face-off between me and her that Ranger gracefully dissolved and got Titus lynched on D1, but not before Titus fake-claimed Cop and thus drew a CC.

I do not wish for the Cop to be outed here, and I was hoping someone would realize how the plan is strong enough if Scum don't kill the Cop, so I was counting on at least one scumster to strongly oppose it.

Seeing as that didn't happen, that's the first attempt of catching scum off their guard failing. But there are other tricky moves a perceptive Townie van make to maximize our chances of winning still.

P.S. First time I played this is on my wiki. Probably 2nd or 3rd game I played on MS.

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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:22 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 20, Montosh wrote:Cop/JK won't follow this plan, and they'll target whoever they want.
Oh, but they must, and especially so the Cop. Otherwise we won't know who they inno'd if they accidentally flip on N2.

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