Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[Scioness Sajj]

Analyzing gamestates is hard. But right now I'm inclined to VOTE: northsidegal.

could you elaborate

[BuJaber]

Point I'm trying to make is that this low activity is making uglyduck and Sajj find things that IMO are just not there.

what have i said that you felt you need to dismiss it?

You've touched on this with mutant and it might be a perspective thing. But basically I think Seal's RVS posts that you talk about are neutral and quite normal for RVS. In your opinion you might be seeing something scummy like you told mutant but I don't and it felt to me that the quietness in thread is motivating you and others to look for things for the sake of looking.

Now if I didn't have a townread on you I'd be interpretting this differently but as you can see I'm quite open to the possibility that you did in fact find it scummy and have good reason to. So 3 options:

1. You are scum.
2. You are town and this is just how you tend to read people(you could be right or wrong)
3. You are bored town and trying to move the game by voting people for insignificant things

I thought it was 3 hence the comment. By the way 217 is incredibly hypocritical coming from you. Guess it's a good thing hypocrisy tends to be a towntell, unlike inconsistency which tends to be scummy.

Wave: if I misssd it I'm sorry but reiterating it is helpful anyway. Any reason why you feel so strongly about an Uglyduck wagon?

I'd really like to see reactions of people who TR/townleaned cat after the gem that is 224

For the record I think nsg has one of those metas where it's almost always better to not lynch them early.

[mutantdevle]

Soley based on the fact I think Math is town I would be prepared to wagon NSG but I do agree she is better left for later.

[wavemode]

Wave: if I misssd it I'm sorry but reiterating it is helpful anyway. Any reason why you feel so strongly about an Uglyduck wagon?

well the reason I think he's scum is that his catch up post is mostly game narration and large swathes of it sound manufactured. person A is towny because they're "talking", person B is towny because they're "interacting", fluff like that. as we've seen, the few possibly worthwhile points he made in his post turned out to be bullshit. he treads super light with his scumlean on mylo in a way that makes him seem pointlessly nervous ("obv not super solid on that though" - er, yes it IS obvious that your read is gut, so why make it a point to reiterate this). combine this with the fact that most of the post is townreads and it sounds like someone trying to fly under the radar and not step on people's toes. overall it was a long post dressed up to look like game analysis but was actually mostly meaningless. players like this flip scum most of the time

but to answer your question, the reason I feel *strongly* about his lynch is on policy. he spells scummy with a K

[BuJaber]

Cool thank you. I asked to get a read on you before joining the wagon. I felt people were too quick to townread you based on the 1v1 with Dino. Didn't really need justification for the vote.

VOTE: uglyduck

[Scioness Sajj]

Point I'm trying to make is that this low activity is making uglyduck and Sajj find things that IMO are just not there.

what have i said that you felt you need to dismiss it?

You've touched on this with mutant and it might be a perspective thing. But basically I think Seal's RVS posts that you talk about are neutral and quite normal for RVS. In your opinion you might be seeing something scummy like you told mutant but I don't and it felt to me that the quietness in thread is motivating you and others to look for things for the sake of looking.

I don't think Seal participated in RVS. It was not random at all.
First 24 hours after the game started the thread was pretty active and that's also the time when Seal posted for the first time.

Now if I didn't have a townread on you I'd be interpretting this differently but as you can see I'm quite open to the possibility that you did in fact find it scummy and have good reason to. So 3 options:

Where's that townread coming from even? What makes it so strong that you didn't reconsider it but you did with UglyDuck?
You are open to the possibility that what I find scummy is a product of boredom.

I thought it was 3 hence the comment. By the way 217 is incredibly hypocritical coming from you. Guess it's a good thing hypocrisy tends to be a towntell, unlike inconsistency which tends to be scummy.

He asked a question and I have answered the question exactly how it was asked, what's hypocritical about it? If you have 218 in mind then idk. I never complained about the game state.

For the record I think nsg has one of those metas where it's almost always better to not lynch them early.

What about NSG meta makes her always better to lynch her later instead of earlier?

[HeWhoSwims]

VC3

wingedcatgirl (1) (L-6)

: StefanB

UnrealSeal (1) (L-6)

: UglyDuck

mutantdevle (2) (L-5)

: UnrealSeal, Scioness Sajj

wavemode (1) (L-6)

: mutantdevle

Scioness Sajj (1) (L-6)

: northsidegal

Invisibility (1) (L-6)

: Mathdino

northsidegal (3) (L-4)

: ArcAngel9, Invisibility, wingedcatgirl

UglyDuck(2) (L-5)

: wavemode, BuJaber

Not voting: Myloninja13

StefanB will be prodded

[UglyDuck]

Wave: if I misssd it I'm sorry but reiterating it is helpful anyway. Any reason why you feel so strongly about an Uglyduck wagon?

well the reason I think he's scum is that his catch up post is mostly game narration and large swathes of it sound manufactured. person A is towny because they're "talking", person B is towny because they're "interacting", fluff like that. as we've seen, the few possibly worthwhile points he made in his post turned out to be bullshit. he treads super light with his scumlean on mylo in a way that makes him seem pointlessly nervous ("obv not super solid on that though" - er, yes it IS obvious that your read is gut, so why make it a point to reiterate this). combine this with the fact that most of the post is townreads and it sounds like someone trying to fly under the radar and not step on people's toes. overall it was a long post dressed up to look like game analysis but was actually mostly meaningless. players like this flip scum most of the time

but to answer your question, the reason I feel *strongly* about his lynch is on policy. he spells scummy with a K

It sounds like narration bc that’s what t was. By the time i got around to the post i had to read the whole game. Just was attempting to post my opinions on the matters that took place, since i was out while it was happening.

Also i disagree with you on the too many TR thing - i feel like most skummy reads list cast far more broad suspicion.

[Scioness Sajj]

another thing

i'd welcome a wagon on wingedcatgirl if they prodge once more.

or myloninja. d1 flash wagon doesn't sound super bad at this point.

[BuJaber]

A) I townread your posting. I don't think you've done anything particularly valuable to town (nor would I expect this so early but just saying this to say that there isn't some particular thing you've done that is definitely townie) I just don't think your posts come from scum. Not with that attitude and frequency of posting.

B) Small point: I don't equate the boredom with finding something scummy. Sure I don't know you but it'd be rather insulting if I thought that your most effective scumhunting is a product of a random ping on something you found while bored. I like to give people more credit than that. So the options in my mind were legitime scumhunting and genuinenly considering Seal's posts are scumtells OR bored and read too much into something that isn't there.

C) it's hypocritical of you, the person who has probably called out the most number of people to elaborate more, to answer mutant's question with just a 'no'. You don't think mutant, who asked that question, (and any other person for that matter), would be interested in your additional reasons for suspecting him? Why is it fine for you to answer with one word but everyone else has to explain their votes/reads and justify them? That's a rhetorical question. Everyone should elaborate. The hypocrisy comes from you recognizing the importance of elaboration but not elaborating yourself.

[UglyDuck]

A) I townread your posting. I don't think you've done anything particularly valuable to town (nor would I expect this so early but just saying this to say that there isn't some particular thing you've done that is definitely townie) I just don't think your posts come from scum. Not with that attitude and frequency of posting.

B) Small point: I don't equate the boredom with finding something scummy. Sure I don't know you but it'd be rather insulting if I thought that your most effective scumhunting is a product of a random ping on something you found while bored. I like to give people more credit than that. So the options in my mind were legitime scumhunting and genuinenly considering Seal's posts are scumtells OR bored and read too much into something that isn't there.

C) it's hypocritical of you, the person who has probably called out the most number of people to elaborate more, to answer mutant's question with just a 'no'. You don't think mutant, who asked that question, (and any other person for that matter), would be interested in your additional reasons for suspecting him? Why is it fine for you to answer with one word but everyone else has to explain their votes/reads and justify them? That's a rhetorical question. Everyone should elaborate. The hypocrisy comes from you recognizing the importance of elaboration but not elaborating yourself.

this is @ Scioness, correct?

[BuJaber]

Oh sorry D) NSG insists she puts a lot more effort into the game as town than she does as scum and there are past games that support this claim. I have experienced some games of both alignment. Although I admit our last game together her boost in motivation came a little too late. I don't want to speak about that horrid game though point is regardless of what alignment she is and whether or not we lynch her it's best to wait and see if she exposes her alignment through her posting. Inactivity can be a scumtell for her but inactivity is also difficult to read for any player so it's best to wait until we have some posts of hers to analyze.


Pedit - yes this post and my previous posts are directed at Sajj but you are encouraged to read and comment on them

[BuJaber]

Last 2 posts basically are @Sajj.. sorry for the spam and confusion

[Scioness Sajj]

wave just wrote to my in the hood

the game's officially dead

[Scioness Sajj]

BuJaber are you a jelly

[Scioness Sajj]

Oh sorry D) NSG insists she puts a lot more effort into the game as town than she does as scum and there are past games that support this claim. I have experienced some games of both alignment. Although I admit our last game together her boost in motivation came a little too late. I don't want to speak about that horrid game though point is regardless of what alignment she is and whether or not we lynch her it's best to wait and see if she exposes her alignment through her posting. Inactivity can be a scumtell for her but inactivity is also difficult to read for any player so it's best to wait until we have some posts of hers to analyze.


Pedit - yes this post and my previous posts are directed at Sajj but you are encouraged to read and comment on them

inactivity doesn't really work for NSG ime, yeah.
how long would you give her to display her alignment?

[wingedcatgirl]

Analyzing gamestates is hard. But right now I'm inclined to VOTE: northsidegal.

could you elaborate

Read some ISOs. Got some feels.

Rereading, I notice I'm making my usual mistake of forgetting inactive players exist.

[Scioness Sajj]

Read some ISOs. Got some feels.

that's not really elaboration I was looking for

be more specific, please

[ArcAngel9]

10 pages already. Oh lord, I am behind in this game too.

Okay, I so don't believe this neighbor hood PT's help. those PT's going to stall anyway. I am neighbour with Mylonnija and Uglyduck. Nothing much happened except Mylon claimed that he is lurking.

Sure! What's on your mind Invisibilty?

math is town
probably wavemode too

I agree with Maths theory, I don't think not using the QT is the right move (I will not answer Wavemodes question, because they are directed to Math)
I feel better about wavemodetown here, than of Mathdino who is more tricky (I am not scumreading Math here, just paranoid).
So I agree with Wavemode probably town, Maths theorys are probably better for town.

Pre-edit: Hello Brass

Match theory is false. How does it help sort someone's alignment. I dont buy this.

I'm surprised that "Town is better off having discussions in the open thread" is such a controversial opinion. I thought this was common sense? I've asked repeatedly what sort of discussions people want to have in private and nobody can give me an example of one?

So okay now it is a question for everyone, okay I was holding back, since you asked Mathdino exspecially.
First of it can be used to scumhunt your neighbour, sometimes more easy than in here.
Second if you townread someone it is great to have someone to excance thoughts. (Having masonhoods in recent games was great)
Third Banter & Fun.
Fourth If people really know each other it is exspecially more easy for them.
Fifth: I can be storred last thoughts to get across to town in the night.

Just out of the top of my head, PS: I don't envy Sajj being between us.

Do you expect the scum neighbors act anything different that what they do here?

Math I don't know what your deal is but either one of these things is going on regarding your read on me:

- You are scum picking on me because you know I'm an easy day 1 lynch and then I get harder to lynch as the day goes on.
- You majorly overestimate your ability to read me.
- You overestimate my ability to look townie.
- You don't actually scum read me but know that I'm most likely to scum tell as a day 1 wagon and hence want to get me to that position as your plan for reading me.

I don't think it's the first option since I wouldn't expect you to also be calling NSG out as scum and this point and I can only hope it's the 4th option.

But seriously, if you are scum reading me because my town game is blatantly obvious and I don't look townie enough yet, then stop. using. that. as. a. tell. for. me. Both you and the worst seem to expect me to look townie from the get go. That's not how I work. In our last game, I wasn't obvious town until after you died. That was day 3.

Meta is a great tool to use at the early game phase. If Math says he got his meta read on you. Why wont it work out for town? assuming if he is town.

[ArcAngel9]

No rest for the wicked

Bold prediction: one of arc/ugly is scum.
VOTE: Arc

Scum claim. Nice

VOTE: BuJaber

8 pages already. Give me time to go over.

lets start with this one VOTE: NSG

why?

It was RVS darling.

Okie dokie catch up done:

ArcAngel (Null) - Same boat as myself, no content yet.

BuJaber (Towny) - Talking, pushing the game with questions.

Invisibility (Towny) - Interacting, and the only opinion really has been on the "how to use the Neighbor thread" and I agree with what they said.

Mathdino (Towny) - Only played with Town!Math so far, and this feels the same as the other games. Opening with the Neighbor claim also just seems like something there would be no reason to do as Skum.

Mutant (Towny) - I find the opening bits they put in about game set up and how to use the PTs to be towny. There was one post that said something like "I don't see how it helps skum, but nor how it helps town" that I really liked. As Math pushed him through the day so far I thought they have done a good job at answering and defending so far so yeah town.

Mylo (Skummy) - Honestly just a gut feeling thing more than anything. Hasn't really had an opinion or anything so far, but has somehow posted quite a bit. Feels off, obv not super solid on that though.

NSG (Null) - Asks a lot of questions and like openly and lightly has been ignoring certain things not seeming to care. I don't know what that means, so null sauce for now.

Scioness (Towny) - Just seems helpful at this point. Answering and asking questions, not flooding with fluff, alsooooo I should mention the only other game I played with them they were my Skum Mate and this is like 100% opposite of the play style they used in that game.

StephanB (Towny) - Thoughts and responses regarding claiming of neighbors and how to use the PTs is just both from a straight up Town perspective. Answers all questions directed their way, all of which I get no paranoia from.

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - Just a few posts, but the first one is sarcastic disagreement with Math's "2v11 we are all doomed" post, but also finds Math towny for it. And then the very next post is them agreeing with Math that "Town plays shitty, and using the hoods to try and work together is a horrible idea". Not to be whatever, but it came off to me almost like "sheeping Math's ideas" if that makes sense? As Math is gonna come up with a lot of ideas, being on the bandwagon early is probably advantageous from a skum perspective (speaking from experience on that one, bc the alternative sure as shit doesn't work). Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

WaveMode (Null?) - This is my idfk person right now. Like, everything they say is a disagreement with someone else - but I can't decide if that is skummy or towny. They also clearly have a strong opinion on open thread vs using the PTs - the opinions seem skummy, but the way they are presented seem like they come from a town mind. The thing that drops it into Null from Towny for me is posts like #101 - we can still work together and use the PTs, which I am fairly certain most people are aware would be the gameplan. Black and white mindsets strike me as skummy most the time, town tends to find that paranoid/grey area more often then not.

WingedCatGirl (Null) - No content other then hello post.


OK that is just summary, but I have read up and should be around

Also VOTE: UnrealSeal

I hate posts like this. How is Bujaber is towny. He hardly said anything. And since when asking questions and pushing is AI?

VOTE: UglyDuck

Point I'm trying to make is that this low activity is making uglyduck and Sajj find things that IMO are just not there.

Btw TW is the original duck and you're all fake but also I feel like I'm out of the loop.. what caused the sudden increase of duck avatars?

And back to the game Seal as far as I'm concerned Dino's doomsaying is extra motivation for me. Like I've never been in a 2v11 mountainous.. Mafia scum record is about to be broken

Btw why do they call it mountainous? I asked before in a different game and nobody answered. I don't see the relationship between mountains and vanilla.

I'm trying to come up with a way we can use the neighborhoods to send messages like a broken telephone sort of game and have that expose scum or confirm town somehow. Anybody got any ideas?

Duck avatar topic is irrelevant.
Why are you asking for any ideas to talk about neighbors. It been discussed already by Stephan and Dino. What part of it that you didn't really understand?

Cool thank you. I asked to get a read on you before joining the wagon. I felt people were too quick to townread you based on the 1v1 with Dino. Didn't really need justification for the vote.

VOTE: uglyduck

Didn't you already scum read UD, why did you need justification from someone else?

[BuJaber]

BuJaber are you a jelly

What is a jelly?

inactivity doesn't really work for NSG ime, yeah.
how long would you give her to display her alignment?

2 day phases max. Less if they're long days.

[Scioness Sajj]

B) Small point: I don't equate the boredom with finding something scummy. Sure I don't know you but it'd be rather insulting if I thought that your most effective scumhunting is a product of a random ping on something you found while bored. I like to give people more credit than that. So the options in my mind were legitime scumhunting and genuinenly considering Seal's posts are scumtells OR bored and read too much into something that isn't there.

so there were two options in your mind and you decided to reduce my input itt to irrelevant? alright

C) it's hypocritical of you, the person who has probably called out the most number of people to elaborate more, to answer mutant's question with just a 'no'. You don't think mutant, who asked that question, (and any other person for that matter), would be interested in your additional reasons for suspecting him? Why is it fine for you to answer with one word but everyone else has to explain their votes/reads and justify them? That's a rhetorical question. Everyone should elaborate. The hypocrisy comes from you recognizing the importance of elaboration but not elaborating yourself.

well, he didn't ask me for my reasons, so I believe my answer satisfied him.
if you think that I should be producing more content, with my 5 posts per page raito, then I disagree.
if you think that everybody should be spewing everything they think of then you are wrong.
this is totally unnecessary tbh

[Scioness Sajj]

@WHS could you fix that quote from above for me? thank you.

jelly is food? don't mind me, silly shitposting

[BuJaber]

Arc none of your points match up to my version of reality.

-post 183 is not a scum claim
-I don't think it's accurate that I 'hardly said anything'
-My question about neighborhoods had nothing to do with the previous discussion involving Dino & co. They spoke about whether or not it is helpful to say things in hoods but not in thread. I asked about a specific way of using the hoods. I understood them just fine I was opening a new discussion about a similar but different thing.
-I didn't need justification to vote. I wanted to hear wave's justification for

his

vote. I didn't vote for duck earlier because 1. I'm happy voting either of you or duck and 2. I was scumreading wave until his justification of the duck vote.

And btw I think there is

only

one scum between you and duck so if you're town he isn't and vice versa. This is not because of any connection between you (though now you told us he's your neighbor maybe we'll see something) but it's a statistical bet based on things I've noticed from scum opening posts. I believe that statistically if you have 25% or more of the players starting the game with some sort of apology for lateness or their inactivity then 1 of them is scum and just piggybacking on the others' excuses.

[BuJaber]

(Duck + cat + arc + nsg = 4 / 13 ) I already discussed nsg and I should have probably clarified that I consider cat one of you 3 that I'm willing to vote for if that wasn't clear. That's where the 25% comes from.

The original ping was me not liking your first post or duck's post in the same page complaining about the number of pages.