Open 729 - Cul de Sac!

[mutantdevle]

Mutant >> Unreal

These are the only 2 off the UD wagon (aside from myself and UD himself). With UD flipping red I am willing to reverse my read(s) and especially so on mutant (because I obviously haven't had good reads before).

Also, checking UD's read list I see he called Unreal scummy and mutant towny so mutant >> Unreal.

VOTE: mutant

Lol. I was sheeping your slot and you know it.

[Scioness Sajj]

I thought you were scumreading me?
----
In other news, i think I should reconsider a 50

[mutantdevle]

like how mathdino called duck town and used PT interactions to justify it. PT interactions that probably don't exist. PT interactions which probably took place in the scum PT.

That can easily be disproved by a massclaim of neighborhoods. I'm sure we still can work out the whole circle if we claim them now.

That would not disprove it since they could be scum AND neighbours.

[mutantdevle]

I thought you were scumreading me?
----
In other news, i think I should reconsider a 50

I am scum reading you. But I was town reading UD based on math's confidence. A50 didn't give any reason not to trust Math's confidence.

[mutantdevle]

Also, I am scum reading you based on sheeping NSG

[mutantdevle]

Maybe I should stop sheeping?

Nah, I don't feel like attacking wavemode.

[Scioness Sajj]

So you don't have your own reads okay

[mutantdevle]

So you don't have your own reads okay

I don't feel like attacking wavemode.

[Scioness Sajj]

Exactly

[Lavos]

VOTE: Wavemode

[wavemode]

lol

[UnrealSeal]

alright now I'm convinced

VOTE: Lavos

[Scioness Sajj]

lol

[Lavos]

not really wanting to make a big case but what i see in this is that his progression on uglyduck isn't really realistic. the part where he sorts the guy isn't really there; instead it's like he

knows

the guy is scum from the start. for example bujaber's push wasn't constant; he seeks scumhunting activity elsewhere regularly and later sets up a Tor/lavos lynchpool as uglyduck takes a backseat. these kinds of fluid reads are things that often come from town.

wave decides UD is scum at one point and has exactly 0 doubt thereafter. his push on invis before this gets dropped; he hops on unreal at deadline because he kinda has to do that but jumps back on uglyduck asap. in general it feels at all times like he actually *knows* that uglyduck is scum.

and i already know what people are going to say about this; "but lavos! he was voting scum! that means he can't be scum!" and my answer to that is- no it doesn't. people on this site bus LITERALLY ALL THE TIME but hold the belief that scum wouldn't do the same for some reason I don't know.

like. let's look at recent normal games with scum lynches. if the playercount gets too low or 1 scum is left or there is a guilty i don't care about the data because it's irrelevant.

mini 2015: both wagons d1 were on scum and d2 was a guilty so this is hard to gather data from but one scum did vote another scum day one.

mini 2010: lynch on shoshin contained 1 scum, and the scum that wasn't shoshin and wasn't bussing shoshin was bussing the scum who was bussing shoshin.

mini 2009: scum bussed d3

mini 2002: cultofathena lynched d1. rare example of a time when there was no scum bussing, BUT one scum WAS voting another scumbutt.

mini 1996: implosion lynched d1. scum was on the wagon. the bussing scum, Mumble, had an earlier wagon which implosion was on. scum #3 was a lurker.

to be fair I haven't looked into just how far the bus went during these games but I do know that I have hardbussed my partner on my main before so I know it's definitely possible. in a 2-scum game the LAST thing you want is to be associated with your partner, period. because then scum loses. it's like white flag.

[wavemode]

Lavos... please be scum

Like, if you're town and you think that case makes the slightest bit of sense... I weep for you

[wavemode]

By the way, go read Open 694 or pervect LUV Mafia or Literally Mafia or Large 207 if you think I don't regularly catch scum on day 1

[wavemode]

In fact, the case I made on azeru when I replaced into Literally Mafia is almost the same as the case I made here against UglyDuck. Noobscum tend to have the same bad habits

[wavemode]

In fact, the case I made on azeru when I replaced into Literally Mafia is almost the same as the case I made here against UglyDuck. Noobscum tend to have the same bad habits

[wavemode]

And the case I made against Game burger in open 694 was also similar, iirc

[wavemode]

not really wanting to make a big case but what i see in this is that his progression on uglyduck isn't really realistic. the part where he sorts the guy isn't really there; instead it's like he knows the guy is scum from the start. for example bujaber's push wasn't constant; he seeks scumhunting activity elsewhere regularly and later sets up a Tor/lavos lynchpool as uglyduck takes a backseat. these kinds of fluid reads are things that often come from town.

This paragraph is almost a scumclaim, essentially. How can you read uglyduck's interactions with me and unrealseal and not see how inherently scummy they were? In fact, ALMOST EVERYONE agreed! UglyDuck was going to be the day one lynch, and literally the only reason he wasn't was Mathdino. And that wasn't even based on in-thread interactions, but on their private thread!

Like, my question to you would be, what should have been the turning point? Point me to the day 1 post of UglyDuck that should have remotely given me a sense that he was actually town. Go ahead and try to find one. Hint: you won't, because he did exactly nothing day 1 besides defend himself. So where is this even coming from with you?

[wavemode]

also,

THE PROGRESSION WASN'T THERE ??

now I know for certain that you really did not read my conversation with UglyDuck on day 1

[wavemode]

right now i would color the game like

wavemode

mutantdevle

StefanB

BuJaber

Unreal Seal

UglyDuck
northsidegal
wingedcatgirl
Scioness Sajj
ArcAngel9

Myloninja13

Mathdino

Invisibility

Okie dokie catch up done:

ArcAngel (Null) - Same boat as myself, no content yet.

BuJaber (Towny) - Talking, pushing the game with questions.

Invisibility (Towny) - Interacting, and the only opinion really has been on the "how to use the Neighbor thread" and I agree with what they said.

Mathdino (Towny) - Only played with Town!Math so far, and this feels the same as the other games. Opening with the Neighbor claim also just seems like something there would be no reason to do as Skum.

Mutant (Towny) - I find the opening bits they put in about game set up and how to use the PTs to be towny. There was one post that said something like "I don't see how it helps skum, but nor how it helps town" that I really liked. As Math pushed him through the day so far I thought they have done a good job at answering and defending so far so yeah town.

Mylo (Skummy) - Honestly just a gut feeling thing more than anything. Hasn't really had an opinion or anything so far, but has somehow posted quite a bit. Feels off, obv not super solid on that though.

NSG (Null) - Asks a lot of questions and like openly and lightly has been ignoring certain things not seeming to care. I don't know what that means, so null sauce for now.

Scioness (Towny) - Just seems helpful at this point. Answering and asking questions, not flooding with fluff, alsooooo I should mention the only other game I played with them they were my Skum Mate and this is like 100% opposite of the play style they used in that game.

StephanB (Towny) - Thoughts and responses regarding claiming of neighbors and how to use the PTs is just both from a straight up Town perspective. Answers all questions directed their way, all of which I get no paranoia from.

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - Just a few posts, but the first one is sarcastic disagreement with Math's "2v11 we are all doomed" post, but also finds Math towny for it. And then the very next post is them agreeing with Math that "Town plays shitty, and using the hoods to try and work together is a horrible idea". Not to be whatever, but it came off to me almost like "sheeping Math's ideas" if that makes sense? As Math is gonna come up with a lot of ideas, being on the bandwagon early is probably advantageous from a skum perspective (speaking from experience on that one, bc the alternative sure as shit doesn't work). Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

WaveMode (Null?) - This is my idfk person right now. Like, everything they say is a disagreement with someone else - but I can't decide if that is skummy or towny. They also clearly have a strong opinion on open thread vs using the PTs - the opinions seem skummy, but the way they are presented seem like they come from a town mind. The thing that drops it into Null from Towny for me is posts like #101 - we can still work together and use the PTs, which I am fairly certain most people are aware would be the gameplan. Black and white mindsets strike me as skummy most the time, town tends to find that paranoid/grey area more often then not.

WingedCatGirl (Null) - No content other then hello post.


OK that is just summary, but I have read up and should be around

Also VOTE: UnrealSeal

can you be more specific about what you feel is "100% opposite of the play style" scioness used in the past

can you be more specific about what you feel is "100% opposite of the play style" scioness used in the past

Scioness was active in skum pt to an extent and non wxistent in main thread.

she had more than twice as many posts in the main thread as the scum thread but ok

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - ...snip... Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

what post are you referring to here and why did it rub you the wrong way

she had more than twice as many posts in the main thread as the scum thread but ok

UnrealSeal (Skummy) - ...snip... Oh also, the peace out RVS post really rubbed me the wrong way.

what post are you referring to here and why did it rub you the wrong way

No she didn’t?

And the fact that anyone tries to back out or absolve themselves of the RVS stage i find skummy. I mean i hate RVS but to just openly say i am not going to do it seems anti Town.

wait when did I say I was backing out of RVS.

i'm actually confused by this.

No she didn’t?

89 posts main thread

40 posts mafia thread

?

also, I second seal's confusion, what are referring to, where did he say that

wait when did I say I was backing out of RVS.

i'm actually confused by this.

hard to read currently, most peoples post currently is RVS silliness and i'm bad at reading in general. call me again when I can deathtunnel someone

I like StefanB's posting though, I think he's town.

I assume you refer to the "call me again when I can deathtunnel" which was in fact a joke my dude.

you are also ignoring the two other posts before that in which I participated in RVS

I assume you refer to the "call me again when I can deathtunnel" which was in fact a joke my dude.

you are also ignoring the two other posts before that in which I participated in RVS

Not ignoring just highlighting this one - and as we have never played together Idk why you would expect me to know that was a joke.

Not ignoring just highlighting this one

Isn't your point that they avoided RVS though? So you'd have to be ignoring those posts to make this point or you know your point is wrong.

I don't get why that's so bad anyway though :3

Which is a fair opinion - i stated i find it skummy, doesn’t mean you have to findnit skummy

recoloring

wavemode

mutantdevle

BuJaber

StefanB

Unreal Seal

northsidegal
wingedcatgirl
Scioness Sajj
ArcAngel9
Mathdino

Myloninja13

UglyDuck

Invisibility

actually I would strongly favor an UglyDuck wagon at this point

VOTE: UglyDuck

Wave: if I misssd it I'm sorry but reiterating it is helpful anyway. Any reason why you feel so strongly about an Uglyduck wagon?

well the reason I think he's scum is that his catch up post is mostly game narration and large swathes of it sound manufactured. person A is towny because they're "talking", person B is towny because they're "interacting", fluff like that. as we've seen, the few possibly worthwhile points he made in his post turned out to be bullshit. he treads super light with his scumlean on mylo in a way that makes him seem pointlessly nervous ("obv not super solid on that though" - er, yes it IS obvious that your read is gut, so why make it a point to reiterate this). combine this with the fact that most of the post is townreads and it sounds like someone trying to fly under the radar and not step on people's toes. overall it was a long post dressed up to look like game analysis but was actually mostly meaningless. players like this flip scum most of the time

but to answer your question, the reason I feel *strongly* about his lynch is on policy. he spells scummy with a K

can you point me to where my progression was "unrealistic"? which part of my sorting "wasn't really there"?

[Almost50]

except it doesn't disprove since Mafia can in fact live next to Mafia according to the wiki page for this setup.

Well, you said "a PT that probably doesn't exist", so this is a way to prove it does for starters. THEN you can change your argument accordingly.

Do you see any downside to claiming neighbors at this point though?

[Almost50]

Mutant >> Unreal

These are the only 2 off the UD wagon (aside from myself and UD himself). With UD flipping red I am willing to reverse my read(s) and especially so on mutant (because I obviously haven't had good reads before).

Also, checking UD's read list I see he called Unreal scummy and mutant towny so mutant >> Unreal.

VOTE: mutant

Lol. I was sheeping your slot and you know it.

Who's your other neighbor again?

[UnrealSeal]

except it doesn't disprove since Mafia can in fact live next to Mafia according to the wiki page for this setup.

Well, you said "a PT that probably doesn't exist", so this is a way to prove it does for starters. THEN you can change your argument accordingly.

Do you see any downside to claiming neighbors at this point though?

keyword probably

I don't see a downside although I wasn't exactly against outside of the fact that it doesn't clear you.