Open 734: Paris Mafia (13-player variation) - Game Over

[Kmd4390]

Vote Count

DoubtingThomas - 2 - Fink, Thor665
Thor665 - 1 - lane0168
Almost50 - 1 - Eragon
lkdkdkdldlllkkk - 1 - UnrealSeal
lane0168- 1 - Sesq
Lady Angel - 1 - GuiltyLion
Eragon - 1 - FA_Q2

Not Voting - DoubtingThomas, Lalendra, lkdkdkdldlllkkk, Almost50, Lady Angel

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is August 29 at 6:45PM EST

[Thor665]

Well I don't know what grok is...

http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=grok

But burden of proficiency eh? Do we know each other? Have we ever played with each other? Should I know you? I don't know what burden of proficiency has anything to do with it. Explain that.

Yes.
I don't think we know each other.
I don't think we've played together.
I don't know if you should know me - should you? Have I suggested you should in any way? This is weird.
Here's an explanation of burden of proficiency; http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=burden+of+proficiency
tl:dr - he's a good enough player I hold him to a higher standard than players I am less familiar with.
Make sense to you now?

[lane0168]

This logical fallacy is based on the assumption that renowned players are expected to find scum. The attacker asserts that because the player in question has not yet found (enough) scum, they themselves are more likely to be scum...

So because he didn't find scum by the 4th post... He's the most likely to be scum?

I honestly thought you were confused about what burden of proficiency and were using it incorrectly

[Thor665]

I literally explained how I was using it.
Are you intentionally trying to be dense or did my actual explanation translate to what you're saying here?
I don't mind explaining myself, but if you're playing dense for reactions I'm already bored.

[Eragon]

Because you have an equal scum read to them as someone you are voting - so what's the difference? Is your goal *not* to apply pressure with your vote? What are you doing voting if you need a case?

@Eragon

thats the point...

whats the difference?

there is no difference from changing an RvS vote to a vote that isnt my, so why would i do it?

[lane0168]

I literally explained how I was using it.
Are you intentionally trying to be dense or did my actual explanation translate to what you're saying here?
I don't mind explaining myself, but if you're playing dense for reactions I'm already bored.

I'll let read again, and ask if I need to. It was kinda my thoughts after I skimmed through the first time. Then going back and noticed that so I talked about it. Not trying to be dense on purpose no

[lane0168]

I literally explained how I was using it.
Are you intentionally trying to be dense or did my actual explanation translate to what you're saying here?
I don't mind explaining myself, but if you're playing dense for reactions I'm already bored.

As far as I can tell you explained it as "burden of proficiency". So please, explain it again because I seem to misunderstand how sesq not finding scum yet makes him scum.

I've been thinking about this mime issue. I'm with thor as far as not worrying about lynching a mime. Well have rely heavily on vig and watcher to take care of it. At least personally I don't think I'll be able to tell the difference between scum and mime. After one is lynched, hopefully we'll have info on partner.

[Thor665]

there is no difference from changing an RvS vote to a vote that isnt my, so why would i do it?

To create more pressure, elicit stronger reactions from people for or against the wagon, and to advance the possibility of a lynch.
Why wouldn't you move?

As far as I can tell you explained it as "burden of proficiency". So please, explain it again because I seem to misunderstand how sesq not finding scum yet makes him scum.

To repeat myself;

tl:dr - he's a good enough player I hold him to a higher standard than players I am less familiar with.

To restate the original question you asked me;
"Why are you voting Sesq over some people who did lackluster non-wagon votes later, wouldn't doing it later make them more suspect than him?"
Taken together - I consider the lackluster voting potentially scummy because they're not advancing town wincon.
BoP on Sesq is a base standard of - I believe moreso about him than the others that he should know better.

Make sense now?

[GuiltyLion]

hello hello! sorry I haven't had time to sink my teeth into this game yet, I skimmed through it yesterday but gonna do a reread and bring some thoughts shortly

[GuiltyLion]

Basically the same Q goes to thor though - why vote there when there is a decent case (at least for this early) that he is the mime? It feels like you just want to jump on any wagon at all....

this feels like scum-mindset shade for the sake of shade

Thor made it clear he's down to wagon multiple people, there's a bunch of potential town reasons/explanations for this, yet you toss out this vague & indirect accusation as if that's supposed to be intrinsically scummy

[GuiltyLion]

the only good music is techno, which does not feature lyrics.

techno is dope as hell but let's not forget house music

also there's a crazy world of good indie stuff out there rn, like literally yesterday boygenius dropped three tracks and I am ~here~ for the sadgirl voltron

alright back to the game

[GuiltyLion]

not changing my vote because its real this time

wait also when and why did the lane vote become real

[GuiltyLion]

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

yes yes I am townreading all the active posters, blahblahblah

VOTE: FA_Q2
this dude is scum

also I don't really care about the Mime thing unless we lynch one, generally I feel like trying to distinguish between Mime/Mafia play is gonna be a barrel of WIFOM and not worth it

[FA_Q2]

Basically the same Q goes to thor though - why vote there when there is a decent case (at least for this early) that he is the mime? It feels like you just want to jump on any wagon at all....

this feels like scum-mindset shade for the sake of shade

Thor made it clear he's down to wagon multiple people, there's a bunch of potential town reasons/explanations for this, yet you toss out this vague & indirect accusation as if that's supposed to be intrinsically scummy

It is not shade for the sake of shade - it was an honest question.

Hence why I did not vote for thor when he answered. His logic makes sense though I don't really agree with it.

[FA_Q2]

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

yes yes I am townreading all the active posters, blahblahblah

VOTE: FA_Q2
this dude is scum

also I don't really care about the Mime thing unless we lynch one, generally I feel like trying to distinguish between Mime/Mafia play is gonna be a barrel of WIFOM and not worth it

Why town DT?

If anything, DT has been the least town so far.

[Almost50]

This game is going too slow there's hardly anything for me to comment on. Are we waiting for replacements?

[UnrealSeal]

UNVOTE:

@mod V/LA due to injury

, taking time off to let it heal, will try to be back by Friday. Will try to monitor thread as closely as I can.

Noted

[Fink]

This game is going too slow there's hardly anything for me to comment on. Are we waiting for replacements?

You could respond to this:

No! That's a NOOB MIME read. He wants to get lynched, but he made it so obvious he won't be lynched. Mafia may also do it IF we didn't have a Vig. Having a Town Vig rules out the Mafia possibility even for a noob. Got it?

So newb mafia know we have a vig but newb mime don't. Got it.

Anyone who read the setup at all would know we have a vig. Is there a reason to expect mafia read the setup but mimes don't?

My argument the other way is that trying to look a bit mime-ish on the first post would seem like a clever move if your role is mafia because of that initial "but what if they are a mime!?!" wifom response, which could help later, while Mimes would be worried about getting that same response. A bit of "but what if MIME" read from early game is good for Mafia avoiding lynches, bad for Mimes wanting to get lynched. It's a small thing, but people go back and look at the first posts of the game all the time.

And really, how likely do you think it is that your directing all the PRs based on the first page of the game is going to actually decide what they do? Do you think that's going to outweigh things like the counterwagon to a mislynch wagon or partner interactions with a lynched scum?

[Almost50]

@Fink: Mimes aim to get LYNCHED. If they could accomplish that on D1 they don't need to worry about the Vig. "Act scummy --> Get lynched" is what a noob Mime would think. I do not expect a NOOB to go about the consequences beyond that point. Planning for multiple moves hardly makes someone a NOOB.

Mafia do NOT want to get lynched. A noob Mafioso would NOT try to act scummy in the first place. If they do (in order to avoid being lynched) then they are NOT a noob either. NOOB NOOB NOOB. A Newbie who has not yet developed the sense to plan ahead for multiple steps and will only go for the next move is what I'm talking about.

FTR, when I play Jester I never manage to get myself lynched. When I played Martyr I couldn't get myself NK'd (I wonder if that'd be the case knowing I'm currently one of the most popular N1 kills on MS, but I was a NOOB back then and didn't know how to draw the NK unto myself. Hell I couldn't even decide who was a killer, since if I targeted one who was doing the kill on that night they would have killed me instead of their intended target).

[Thor665]

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

[DoubtingThomas]

Don't see any questions/comment people have on my new sets of posts that I made after the first 3 meaningless song lyrics

[DoubtingThomas]

FA just missed my post or ignoring my question?

[DoubtingThomas]

okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town

Lane?

you have your vote on me. you dont want to ask him why he town reads me?

[FA_Q2]

FA just missed my post or ignoring my question?

I didn't miss your post - I flat out ignored it. I already answered your question. Going around and around and stating the same thing over again is pointless and not helpful scumhunting.

[DoubtingThomas]

Guys, I will have wisdom teeth surgery tomorrow and, consequently, will have to relax and play less mafia.

Be prepared to see me less for a couple days, especially with classes starting next week :/. I will try to keep track of the thread tho.