Open 744 - Lovers and Losers [endgame]

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Michael Scott
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Post Post #575  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:51 pm

In post 552, LolWagons wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78158&start=125

Its mostly me lamenting having to deceive the MS slot because I’d be super happy to play with them as town

:')
Look forward to playing in a different setup where derping won't cost me the game :P

Michael Scott
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Post Post #576  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:53 pm

In post 574, Bambi Jay wrote:Hey, I was literally fighting Lolwagon tooth and nail and Egi Appearantly tipped you off of something. Even taking the convoluted route is "optimal because of the circumstances".

Yeah, *any* route was fine agree I decided that Clem had the BoP and was scum, though. My reads in endgame were informed majorly by that.

yessiree
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Post Post #577  (ISO)  » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:58 pm

In post 570, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 568, yessiree wrote:I thought town lacked a protown voice, which would have really helped.

But... Me :(

I thought you deffo tried to be the town leader, but failed to get town to listen to you. 5/5 plan, 1/5 execution. Also a bit of bad luck with an inactive lover (in keeping with Michael’s character)

Michael Scott
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Post Post #578  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:01 am

How would I get Clemency to listen to me though? He was extremely tunneled throughout and I can't think of anything I could say to make him listen.

Impossible situation

Michael Scott
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Post Post #579  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:04 am

And Muh, I thought you were a much better player than this, why'd you just sheep Clem? And your reasoning later was also lacking

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Post Post #580  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:05 am

By convincing him I was scum instead of you. Obviously he knew 1 of us was lying, and he thought it was you.

Michael Scott
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Post Post #581  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:06 am

As soon as Muh voted for Overkill, I realized the scumteam couldn't possibly be {Clemency, Muh, Overkill}, because Muh's vote put Overkill at 3 votes, and I had publicly insisted that both Mcqueen and Ruby should vote for Overkill. So it would have been an incredibly stupid gambit for scum to vote their partner here, as they would either have to immediately unvote Overkill upon a fourth person voting for Overkill, or run the risk of Overkill just getting straight up hammered.

But I thought this simply meant the scumteam was {Bambi, Ruby, Overkill} rather than {Clemency, Muh, Overkill}, which is why I didn't immediately unvote. Muh's vote for Overkill really surprised me, but I still thought LolWagons was town.


- Volxen

Michael Scott
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Post Post #582  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:14 am

In post 580, Bambi Jay wrote:By convincing him I was scum instead of you. Obviously he knew 1 of us was lying, and he thought it was you.


Clemency flat out refused to listen to us or work with us. He literally just screamed "MS IS SCUM!!!" the entire game, all the while advocating for anti-town strategies like lynching in the claimed town lover pool rather than the claimed VT pool.

While Wagons was scum here, he was 100% correct in that the pro-town strategy is to lynch from the claimed VT pool rather than the claimed town lover pool. I'm assuming Wagons realized someone would eventually realize this and bring this up, so he figured he might as well get towncredit by coming right out of the gates at the beginning of day one by strongly pushing for lynching from the VT pool and refusing to back down on this strategy (which he was consistent on throughout the entire game).


- Volxen

Bambi Jay
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Post Post #583  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:17 am

Should have memed it like I did. Clem likes memes.

yessiree
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Post Post #584  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:20 am

In post 578, Michael Scott wrote:How would I get Clemency to listen to me though? He was extremely tunneled throughout and I can't think of anything I could say to make him listen.

Impossible situation

Townhunting, getting correctly townread, and getting your townreads to work with you really come with experience

Michael Scott
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Post Post #585  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:20 am

Also, BTW. If I re-evaluated my reads and voted Lolwagons, Clem and Muh would've voted 0ver since "MS IS SCUM LULZ", so there was no way we we're winning after Dong was hammered.

Michael Scott
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Post Post #586  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:22 am

In post 584, yessiree wrote:
In post 578, Michael Scott wrote:How would I get Clemency to listen to me though? He was extremely tunneled throughout and I can't think of anything I could say to make him listen.

Impossible situation

Townhunting, getting correctly townread, and getting your townreads to work with you really come with experience

What would you have said to Clemency in this particular game that you think would get him to listen to you?
Shitposting?
Cause then, nah

yessiree
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Post Post #587  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:26 am

you could have worked around him and tried to win his lovers, town had 6 votes for the first lynch

Michael Scott
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Post Post #588  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:28 am

Yep, I think the Dong vote was rushed -- idk, I dunno if Muh would've had a change of mind, but meh

yessiree
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Post Post #589  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:28 am

But yeah after the first vt lynch town had virtually no way of coming back

Pedit: :P

yessiree
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Post Post #590  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:33 am

The first lynch was supposed to give town grounds for the second, but it didn’t really work well in this case. There wasnt much progress to be made in the 2 remaining vt claims. There SHOULD have been.

volxen
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Post Post #591  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:18 am

In post 590, yessiree wrote:The first lynch was supposed to give town grounds for the second, but it didn’t really work well in this case. There wasnt much progress to be made in the 2 remaining vt claims. There SHOULD have been.


We did follow the optimal strategy: lynching strictly from the claimed VT pool. Following that strategy in and of itself gives town a 2/3 chance of winning, we just put our trust in the wrong VT.

If Clemency at least agreed with us on that strategy (even while scumreading us), he would have advocated for lynching LolWagons on day one rather than our slot, since he was convinced that LolWagons was our scum partner. Obviously Bambi would have never agreed to a LolWagons lynch, and Bambi's push for a Michael Scott lynch but refusal to join a LolWagon's lynch would have (hopefully) been a big red flag for Clemency, since Bambi publicly agreed with Clemency's sentiment that the scumteam was Michael Scott/Mcqueen/LolWagons. Clemency could have tested Bambi by switching from his push on us to pushing LolWagons instead (Bambi obviously couldn't commit to this push).

That's what I really don't get. Clemency can scumread us to his heart's content, but he had no reason to reject the optimal strategy of lynching from the claimed VT pool. He should have been pushing for LolWagon's lynch rather than our lynch on day one if he was convinced that the scumteam was Michael Scott/Mcqueen/LolWagons. That alone could have changed the entire course of the game -- if everyone aligned with the town embraced the strategy of lynching from the claimed VT pool, regardless of which players they townread or scumread.

Although in the end we did lynch from the claimed VT pool, I think things really started to go downhill for town when the idea of lynching from the claimed town lover pool was embraced by some townies.

Neither Dong nor Overkill did enough to convince either myself or Auro that we should locktown them. Wagons did an excellent job at coming across as a strategic pro-town leader.

Egix96
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Post Post #592  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:27 am

Wait... we won? :eek:
Really sorry about that sub-out, guys, game was stressing me out too much. I just wanted to sign up for one more game before Xmas but didn't realise it would be this fast-paced.

PS: for Wiki page purposes, I'm going to put this as a "Win*" i.e. my faction won after I replaced out.
My wiki page (under construction)
The winking face is my favourite emote!

Egix96
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Post Post #593  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:30 am

Thanks Ruby for covering for me
Also thanks Bambi for being my frenemy and LW for putting on a very convincing act. ggwp
My wiki page (under construction)
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Clemency
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Post Post #594  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:12 am

sigh
keep blaming me for going after the scummiest player
Captain, hey! Welcome to the murder.
Check out the Paradigm Shift Podcast!

Clemency
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Post Post #595  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:17 am

In post 586, Michael Scott wrote:
In post 584, yessiree wrote:
In post 578, Michael Scott wrote:How would I get Clemency to listen to me though? He was extremely tunneled throughout and I can't think of anything I could say to make him listen.

Impossible situation

Townhunting, getting correctly townread, and getting your townreads to work with you really come with experience

What would you have said to Clemency in this particular game that you think would get him to listen to you?
Shitposting?
Cause then, nah

not using a plethora of scum tactics as town
if you're town, you wouldnt need constant shading, reverse psychology, trying to get the town to follow you rather than hunting scum
Captain, hey! Welcome to the murder.
Check out the Paradigm Shift Podcast!

Clemency
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Post Post #596  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:18 am

i kept tunneling you because you kept doing scummy shit
Captain, hey! Welcome to the murder.
Check out the Paradigm Shift Podcast!

Clemency
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Post Post #597  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:18 am

but sure, blame me for "not listening"
Captain, hey! Welcome to the murder.
Check out the Paradigm Shift Podcast!

Clemency
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Post Post #598  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:19 am

by all means, the first lynch should have been you based off policy if nothing else
Captain, hey! Welcome to the murder.
Check out the Paradigm Shift Podcast!

Clemency
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Post Post #599  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:21 am

and as if you ever fucking considered bambs in the first place
you kept tunneling me for the shit i kept calling you out on
Captain, hey! Welcome to the murder.
Check out the Paradigm Shift Podcast!

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