Open 745: 9:12 [Game Over]

[Eragon]

do most town players really think of those things as anti-town and to be avoided?

(this isn't a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious how other people view mafia)

i certainly dont.

im a huge fan of softing fake roles and reaction testing.

fake lol hammers are the best.

[Eragon]

hi
VOTE: sleepless
my nullreads are rooroo, coa, and sa
out of the three, coa is probably the worst
he hasnt presented that much original thought and also has done some weird shading ("There's no good reason for town not to share these thoughts.")
in fact i might put sleepless to scumlean
also im not really taking into account the pink ball nk
i mean it kinda makes sense if you think a scum doesnt like pinku because he might be a durdley PR trying not to reveal info and draw the NK
in fact it kinda makes sense for sleepless for force pink's hand and drop a few PR pings
yeah that makes sense

um wjat/

i mjust going to say that you said

"it doesnt even matter that sleepless killed pink and all that WIFOM bs is bs and should be ignored"

we good

[Eragon]

IMO more likely it was someone trying to get me to push SA, and draw my attention away. Im not going to bother diving into who this would be, because its dumb speculation that means nothing.

What, this?

I think on principle you're probably vastly overestimating the amount of thought that scum put into specifically deceiving you, and only slightly less overestimating how much thought went into the nightkill in the first place. I see people make both of those mistakes incredibly consistently.

My bet? There were ~4-7 posts of discussion about who to lynch and they chose someone because "he looks kind of like a PR" or "I don't think we can lynch him" or something similar.


Although, that's just my idea of how scum plays in general. I'd imagine if Slaxx is scum he probably went pretty deep into it. If SA is scum I picture the opposite for him.

another vote for follwing gut alrighty then

[Eragon]

where did you get the slaxx scumread

I feel like I've explained myself pretty well. If you have a more specific question, just ask.

how is kitcat "obvious town"

She's questioning Slaxx over perceived inconsistencies and scummy behavior and is pretty earnestly trying to understand his mindset as opposed to trying to, say, push a mislynch or convince others on something. This has happened all while she's already townread by both the person she's questioning and what seems to me like the rest of the playerlist, so I don't particularly see any scum motivation.

It's just sort of apparent to me, and I'm willing to look foolish if I'm wrong there.

why did you townread eyes

I liked 125, 129 and 130.

so cluelessness, lack of reads, and cluelessness?

thats towny?

really your only explanation is PoE and you dont like slaxx's accpetion of the "bait"

i agree kitcat is towny.

i dont see obviously though

[CultOfAthena]

if it's not poe then why are you scumreading SA?

I've played with SA before. He was good – really good. He was a big part of the resaon town won, and I might've even called him "powertown".

Now, that game was a while ago now—maybe even a year, now that I think about it—and I get that it's not necessarily fair to expect someone to play the same in every single game. Even still, he's just not here this game. Hasn't really asked any good questions, hasn't had any good presence. Those things are enough that I'd take them as scum-indicative on their own, but for SA especially it's noticeable.

Sure, he's had big effort posts like 297, but that seems to me like scum forcing themselves to put a lot into a game rather than town naturally having investment into a game.

so basically

you scumread SA more than Slaxx, yes?
However, you feel Slaxx has a greater scum equity and (pardon me if this isnt your intention) you think slaxx is less likely to get lynched later on so why not just nip the flower in the bud and get it over with.

am i right?

Sure.

[Eragon]

I would appreciate it if you took a moment to read, if not the whole thread, just a few posts ahead before you respond to something.

id rather make my own reads than be influenced by what other people think of posts.

id appreciate it if you let me analyze the way i feel fits me best

[CultOfAthena]

so cluelessness, lack of reads, and cluelessness?

No, no, and no.

really your only explanation is PoE and you dont like slaxx's accpetion of the "bait"

i agree kitcat is towny.

i dont see obviously though

Sure, you can believe that if you want.

If you agree with me I really don't care to continue this conversation.

[Eragon]

if it's not poe then why are you scumreading SA?

I've played with SA before. He was good – really good. He was a big part of the resaon town won, and I might've even called him "powertown".

Now, that game was a while ago now—maybe even a year, now that I think about it—and I get that it's not necessarily fair to expect someone to play the same in every single game.

Even still, he's just not here this game. Hasn't really asked any good questions, hasn't had any good presence

. Those things are enough that I'd take them as scum-indicative on their own, but for SA especially it's noticeable.

Sure, he's had big effort posts like 297, but that seems to me like scum forcing themselves to put a lot into a game rather than town naturally having investment into a game.

so basically

you scumread SA more than Slaxx, yes?
However, you feel Slaxx has a greater scum equity and (pardon me if this isnt your intention) you think slaxx is less likely to get lynched later on so why not just nip the flower in the bud and get it over with.

am i right?

Sure.

i see you have described yourself here
as well as rooroo D1
as well as pinkball early D1
as well as SA
as well as ofhrz before i replaced
as well as eyes

thats 6/9 players you could associate that too.
i dont see why its especially scummy for SA?


what makes the post seem forced to you?

[rooroo]

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

Is this at me? I don't believe that one alignment gets attention more than the other. It depends on the other players, not the player who attention is actually on. "Drawing attention" is a non-tell that new players tend to use as a tell.

I find this post scummy because it conflates attention-seeking with attention-receiving in order to discount a reasonable early townread and in doing so completely ignores motivation, which is often the primary thing town players are thinking about

Zippitty bippity bop

VOTE: Invisibility

Explain what scum motivation you see in Invis' play so far? This reads to me like voting someone just for not liking something that they did. You say that you don't like the amount of effort that he put into his vote – do you think that makes him scum?

Because I'm drawing attention? So you caught two scums because of calling attention? Is calling attention only a scum trait, or can town call attention too?

Is this at me? I don't believe that one alignment gets attention more than the other. It depends on the other players, not the player who attention is actually on. "Drawing attention" is a non-tell that new players tend to use as a tell.

You've seemingly indicated that I'm your first choice for a vote. Why? For that matter, why is Pink Ball your second choice?

Invisibility is town. Kitcat can be town. I would like it if rooroo would show herself to be town soon.

Still leaning scum on pink ball, but I'd like it if people would follow me onto here.

Unvote
Vote: ofrhz

hot take: athena didn't vote sa here because they're partners

this is the first time she's mentioned a scumread on sa and now only when he seems like a popular scumread even though I think his content was decently scummy on d1 and she supposedly expects him to be obvtown by meta

[kitcat]

but why is it scummy to do that in twilight? isnt it more likely scum just drops it and moves off the subject.

why does scum continue scumreading someone through twilight?

I don't know. It feels wrong to me though so I'm bringing it up. It felt over-confident almost, for the situation.

One of the things I'm trying to do on this alt is pay more attention to my gut feelings, even I can't really explain why I think something. I know saying something like this isn't super helpful but I'm hoping focusing on them more will help me figure out how to articulate them

Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently

scummy

but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well

do you think anyone else that voted eyes is scummy for their push?

if yes, ok.

if no, explain why only Slaxx's push was wolfy.

The lynch was: me, slaxx, SA, vizzy, and Eyes
I'm town.
Vizzy I'm pretty sure is town.
Eyes was town.
SA's vote was quite awful actually - he actually voted him in the same post he called him town, iirc. It felt kinda opportunistic to me

I feel like it might just be {slaxx/SA} but on some level I think that solve is almost too easy

[Eragon]

but why is it scummy to do that in twilight? isnt it more likely scum just drops it and moves off the subject.

why does scum continue scumreading someone through twilight?

I don't know. It feels wrong to me though so I'm bringing it up. It felt over-confident almost, for the situation.

One of the things I'm trying to do on this alt is pay more attention to my gut feelings, even I can't really explain why I think something. I know saying something like this isn't super helpful but I'm hoping focusing on them more will help me figure out how to articulate them

Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently

scummy

but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well

do you think anyone else that voted eyes is scummy for their push?

if yes, ok.

if no, explain why only Slaxx's push was wolfy.

The lynch was: me, slaxx, SA, vizzy, and Eyes
I'm town.
Vizzy I'm pretty sure is town.
Eyes was town.
SA's vote was quite awful actually - he actually voted him in the same post he called him town, iirc. It felt kinda opportunistic to me

I feel like it might just be {slaxx/SA} but on some level I think that solve is almost too easy

i totally understand you lol.

i just finished a game where D1 i gut scumread 2/3 of the scum and then just dropped it and by end of game i correctly read the third scum but not the others

thats why im leaning towards trusting my gut on SA

[kitcat]

can you express why this post is towny enough to not lynch rooroo?

Her annoyance at this situation is something that I think comes from town!her more likely than scum!her

[Slaxx]

but why is it scummy to do that in twilight? isnt it more likely scum just drops it and moves off the subject.

why does scum continue scumreading someone through twilight?

I don't know. It feels wrong to me though so I'm bringing it up. It felt over-confident almost, for the situation.

One of the things I'm trying to do on this alt is pay more attention to my gut feelings, even I can't really explain why I think something. I know saying something like this isn't super helpful but I'm hoping focusing on them more will help me figure out how to articulate them

Yeah the baiting felt bad to me.
I'm not sure it's inherently

scummy

but it does feel manipulative - like you were trying to set up a favorable argument for yourself against someone who couldn't defend themselves as well

do you think anyone else that voted eyes is scummy for their push?

if yes, ok.

if no, explain why only Slaxx's push was wolfy.

The lynch was: me, slaxx, SA, vizzy, and Eyes
I'm town.
Vizzy I'm pretty sure is town.
Eyes was town.
SA's vote was quite awful actually - he actually voted him in the same post he called him town, iirc. It felt kinda opportunistic to me

I feel like it might just be {slaxx/SA} but on some level I think that solve is almost too easy

If you think I bussed right out of the gate please do indulge me and vote SA.

I don’t like CoA’s recent posts, feels like the stance was decided and it’s being retroactively justified, not something that formed organically. Bonus points for the fact she voted SA after me despite it being iffy logic to do so based on her own post.

[Slaxx]

Sorry, she voted me above SA, not SA after me. Rough day.

[rooroo]

fwiw I just played a game with slaxx's alt where he was pretty overconfident in a lynch on town as well

(although I don't know his scum meta and I'm not going to say he's as towny here as he was in that game - he was pretty gut town to me in the other game)

[Eragon]

definitely possible @rooroo (the post about CoA) and i had the same thoughts

[kitcat]

thats why im leaning towards trusting my gut on SA

Yeah I'm basically trying to see if my gut has anything good to say lol

[Eragon]

so cluelessness, lack of reads, and cluelessness?

No, no, and no.

really your only explanation is PoE and you dont like slaxx's accpetion of the "bait"

i agree kitcat is towny.

i dont see obviously though

Sure, you can believe that if you want.

If you agree with me I really don't care to continue this conversation.

what do those posts mean then.

one was asking how players knew each other because they were new

one was saying he got no vibes fam

one was when he realized they were alts.

none of those are remotely towny, especially for a not-new player

[Eragon]

thats why im leaning towards trusting my gut on SA

Yeah I'm basically trying to see if my gut has anything good to say lol

my gut wants something good to eat if that means anything :^)

[Slaxx]

fwiw I just played a game with slaxx's alt where he was pretty overconfident in a lynch on town as well

(although I don't know his scum meta and I'm not going to say he's as towny here as he was in that game - he was pretty gut town to me in the other game)

Unfortunately I have to be overconfident as scum as well for it to match my town game.

In this case, though, I think it’s kinda silly to be voted for literally admitting to baiting someone. You’d think scum would be more subtle about it, but whatever.

[kitcat]

If you think I bussed right out of the gate please do indulge me and vote SA.

I don’t like CoA’s recent posts, feels like the stance was decided and it’s being retroactively justified, not something that formed organically. Bonus points for the fact she voted SA after me despite it being iffy logic to do so based on her own post.

Yeah I'm considering the possibility of bussing, not sure if I want to switch my vote at this time.

I'm not super feeling the scumreads on CoA honestly. Like I don't townread her but I don't scumread her either.

[rooroo]

@slaxx yeah I feel like you could be scum but not for the reasons people are suggesting

[Slaxx]

@slaxx yeah I feel like you could be scum but not for the reasons people are suggesting

Explain?

[kitcat]

In this case, though, I think it’s kinda silly to be voted for literally admitting to baiting someone. You’d think scum would be more subtle about it, but whatever.

I mean, I think it was fairly subtle - nobody really noticed it until I brought it up.

[rooroo]

idk 2010 join date basically and your early d1 play felt less aggressive than our other game

I would be townreading you by postcount/whatever if you were new