Open 776: Korina is a Cultist

[insomnia]

No. I’m changing my meta.

It didn’t happen in TvA, happens now.

I’m gonna wall post. I’m going to be efficient. I’m going to catch scum. I’m gonna build a reputation and starting from scratch.

[insomnia]

I only replace in town slots by the way.

Your move cultists.

[insomnia]

So I pondered all night regarding what an "Anticyst" is when I saw the PM, I assume it's something like a scalpel?

[insomnia]

Not cult PoE :

Alyssa the sacrificial lamb
Klick
Auro
Sujimichi
insomnia
RCEnigma

Cult PoE:

Homura
Farkran (probably thread spewed at this point although that's probably a bad take so i'm keeping it here.)
Slaxx
Conspire

[insomnia]

VOTE: Homura

[insomnia]

^

I'm even more of a non-entity than Conspire. Korina never picks me N0.

namely

there's two players that are this hard-lurk type player in this game, and those players are perfect to hide a cultist in since it's harder to accurately decipher which one is cult and which one isn't later on in the game.

We're likely to use our only mislynch today based on setup anyways, so using it to also remove that particular option from Korina's options is helpful to every non-cult alignment since NOW, with only one such person in the game, it's not a guessing game if the game suddenly only makes sense if one cult is having a notably weak showing in this game.

You make the assumption that Korina picked me on the basis of knowing I am a hard-lurk player before the start of the game. As an unknown, the only way Korina would know that would be if they analyzed my games, where I demonstrated a fair amount of activity as a player. Furthermore, now that you pointed it out and started my wagon, the chances of Korina picking me after D1 are microscopic.

This bleeds survivalist.

>says Korina doesn't pick them and assumes he (Korina) knows them which is why they didn't pick them
>says Korina doesn't pick them and says that there's no way they knew them

in consecutive fucking posts. how did this get missed.

[insomnia]

Someone says that they're a non-entity and they use it as a reasoning to argue that Korina never picks them and you think it's stretched that I connected the dots and concluded that she argued Korina doesn't pick her because he doesn't know her?

[insomnia]

you right

UNVOTE:

i didn't read in full context.

[insomnia]

VOTE: Slaxx

[insomnia]

I'm using the ancient technique that's been passed on to me for centuries, first post scum hunting. I honestly think that's the highest chance I have at catching a scum today.

Slaxx has a typical first scum post. Doesn't look to gauge out reactions to help him infer anything, it's done with the mindset of "I gotta start strong, charismatic so I don't get lynched"

First

non treestump checking in

@treestump so who did you recruit?

Pedit: gdi

Gauges a reaction.

lol really?

you culted me n0?

Gauges a reaction.

My role PM says I'm the Antichrist, what does that mean?

Gauges a reaction.

My role PM says I'm the Antichrist, what does that mean?

It means if you combine with Christ you make water and a pillar of salt

I look so good.

[insomnia]

You don't feel like Homura/Conspire are easy pushes?

I know this isn't directed towards me, but I'll just say this is a bad angle to argue on because of Day 1 and only one person is scum, and they don't want the attention.

One person doesn't have the pull to setup these lynches, and your argument is based on the premise that "they're really easy pushes so they must be town" in a game where town are directing the narrative, at least for now.

Just because someone looks like a lynchbait here doesn't mean they're town.

[insomnia]

UNVOTE:

[insomnia]

Meh fuck it, Slaxx looks good in his other posts.

[insomnia]

VOTE: Conspire

Should be L-2.

[insomnia]

I think they have fun early game and the way we make them out themselves is if we, ourselves, the towns, don't have fun at all.

[insomnia]

At least one of Auro/Alyssa told the truth I think

~Esper

Why

Like I said, I’ve seen something like this happen before + as a VT, I think you’re just less likely to make that joke because why?

Anyone buying this as an actual thought that town would have?

[insomnia]

It’s not like they’ve done anything with it either...

[insomnia]

Anecdotally I disagree.

I’m not questioning the validity of the argument, but moreso, what did he achieve by saying that? Virtually nothing.

I’m questioning the both of them, but the second one is more scum indicative. Don’t tell me you’ve played this game and never in your life had someone trolled in one of your games and that trolling is more scum indicative.

[insomnia]

It’s always scum that say “I’ve seen it happen before” but what are the actual reasons in this game that make you feel like they’re openly confessing and not just trolling town?

Like there has to be something that leans you that way.

[insomnia]

I mean that sounds silly, the very thing about playing scum is that you have to push things to advance your agenda which you never believe in.

It’s creating a dichotomy between two good players and casting doubt. It’s not an actual thought.

[insomnia]

They don’t need to present it as some form of damning argument because they don’t believe in it. :shrug:

And just as much as mentioning one thing can create opportunities for scum that you don’t even think about.

[insomnia]

Probability > Possibility

I think Conspire’s the best lynch.

[insomnia]

How do you get a read on the game on page 1?

[insomnia]

Calmez-vous Sherlock. Ank is speaking on a macro lens, my page 1 analysis is not about that. It’s micro.

I assumed she’s talking about the state of the game and all cuz that’s what she always talks about.

[insomnia]

Eh, I guess I can see how Insomnia interpreted that.

5 more

[insomnia]

Stop talking about dissonance and whether or not it’s AI

It’s completely personality related and just theory

Read them for something else

[insomnia]

Place them at L-1 and let them talk

[insomnia]

Mindset analysis

[insomnia]

It was supposed to be for Korina in the PT, fat fingers

[insomnia]

Well if he's a cookie then I'd rather just eat him

[insomnia]

pretty sure it's just my insomnia and rl that keeps me up at night

[insomnia]

It wasn't a joke, they start out by having fun early, trolling, whatnot. The way you make it stop is by raising the bar for towniness not being to constantly troll, but to actually solve.

[insomnia]

And yes, unplanned dissonance comes a lot more from scum than town.

I was in a hydra with 4 other people and we played for like one phase and all our reads were really honed before posted and we'd think critically before we posted.

then someone slipped something in another game and got re-randed and we were re-randed to mafia

and we'd keep pushing separate agendas because it's so easy

just imagine, you can do two things at the same time and depending on the game state, you make the head that was scum reading player x who's getting heavily pushed come in, hard push him, move the vote on him, whatever and poof no responsibility.

[insomnia]

whoever plays to a wincon that they don't have yet is breaking site rules

or should be considered as breaking the rules at least. they're game throwing. it's literally the same thing.

[insomnia]

wow that's wrong in so many ways

ok then don't mind me setting up getting culted and not wanting to help town at all.

[insomnia]

I sensed overall awkwardness around Korina when he interacted with Ank on the first page, as if he didn't want to spew her town. Part of me wants to believe some subconscious thought of his was "ank looks bad on this, let's not spew it, cuz if we can get a lynch on her that'd be goat because i'm scared of her anyway" but was pressured because of potential spewing anyway which is why he appeared so flustered.

[insomnia]

Read page one and compare Korina's interactions with other players and then with Ank and tell me that doesn't read as awkward.

[insomnia]

I only remember your sexual advances towards the smart cookie

[insomnia]

I can't actually tell? Maybe that I was reading Korina's posts more than I let on. I've read quote names but when I see Korina's avatar/name next to the post I just skip to the next one.

Actually yeah that's a towntell in this circumstance that I didn't realise was there.

If I were scum I definitely would be reading Korina's posts in some capacity.

Would you really? I feel as though you'd pay more attention to him in the PT, planning and stuff. He's obviously trolling here, what do you have to gain by taking his posts into account from the thread, as opposed to the PT where he's actually being serious?

[insomnia]

Good point.

[insomnia]

I only replace in town slots by the way.

Your move cultists.

This implies that you read every slot you replaces in correctly, which I highly doubt.

If you meant that you see the alignment and then you decide to replace in, well then we have a big problem.

Do you have any statistics that make you doubt it? Or is it the anecdotal approach and you’re referring back to a game from last year (was it Access Point that you repped in?) and choosing to skate along with it, just because...?

“There’s no reason to believe that there wouldn’t be improvement”

I think all my reps in were town except for maybe one of them in my entire mafia career here, and that is based more on probability of 75% to replace a town slot and 25% to rep in a scum one, so it seems like a bad argument to fall on anyway.

But I already hate the shade for me being bad one year ago instead of scum reading anything I’ve posted in this thread thus far.

[insomnia]

I don't think so. Doesn't change my point because it applies to everyone in general. Declaration of meta change should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Oh then what made you think I was lying about public, verifiable information?

[insomnia]

Given that the only thing GIF could focus on was me and he calls me scum during his catchup, thinks that I'm lying about public verifiable information and also probabilistic truth, I am leaning it being a scum catch up because he didn't hunt for anything, just wanted to shade someone and look good.

He has no scum reads yet and is now arguing why I'm not enough of a reason to vote even though he only commented of posts of mine which have somewhat of a scum appeal, from his PoV.

Content with my vote there.

[insomnia]

I think it’s just him to be honest, I looked back in my ISO and thought I had some good suspicion towards the Conspire slot. GIF’s catchup is also really scummy but I can’t articulate this. I don’t think I’m gonna compromise on anyone else today.

[insomnia]

Ank makes more sense to be culted Night 1 if Korina has any meta with her. I think it’s a terrible N0 pick.

[insomnia]

I think leaving you N0 in order to build a platform of trust among towns and wiggling into the town leader spot is better if it implies you getting culted afterwards.

If you were culted N0, that wouldn’t have happened, you wouldn’t be town and I think you’d struggle with actually hunting, you’d just be going through the motions, and thus you’d neither be followed or trusted.

This all implies you have a weak scum game which I have no evaluation of, or maybe not weak but just “not in the mood” to play scum, I guess, I kind of associate your scum play with mine for no reason, probably because you like playing town more and are good at it.

[insomnia]

do you want to know the funny part about this setup?

I think town has higher odds of winning by mislynching day 1 than hitting cult

Realistically town only wins if the antichrist is targeted at night.

[insomnia]

I don't know whether I should be scum reading Farkran for his logic.

[insomnia]

Thought about it, and nah

Why not?

[insomnia]

Sell me on a better slot to lynch, Klick, and if I'm convinced I'll go there.

GIF.

[insomnia]

Farkran, can you summarize my reasoning for Klick cult and then demonstrate which parts of it are "bad"?

My perception of your scumread of klick is that you don't believe he would be forming a townbloc as town, he seems to be taking things too easy and he cannot get his things straight (i.e. inconsistency around the lurkers).

I don't think those are good reasons to scumread him - i don't see a cult agenda, he should be trying to identify the anarchist and push for a town mislynch, but there isn't a trace of that in any of his posts.

Why do you think you'd see his efforts to identify the anarchist here instead of the cult PT?
He's pretty blatantly been pushing for a "not me" mislynch - what do you mean? Shall I quote every post where he calls Conspire/Homura the best lynch, etc?

This is not AI at all. Actually, it actually refutes the cult agenda, because they mostly likely win anyway, even if they're lynched. A town would be more frustrated at being lynched here than a cult would. A cult knows they're culted and will most likely win, and it's on Korina's recruiting process whether the game keeps going well or not. A cult would much rather be lynched because that way, if they suggest a target and it turns out to be the antichrist, they're the sole reason they lose.

I don't agree with this read like at all.

Cult don't care if they die. They still most likely win, and Korina is forced to recruit anyway. It's all on Korina to decide the outcome of a game, it's literally just who he picks, it's a minesweeper game. You pick the bomb - antichrist - you lose, and Korina has the ultimate choice over that matter.

I'd actually argue that town are more likely to forcefully fight against their lynch, because they are definitely losing the game and are losing their chance of getting culted into a win.

On the other hand, GIF doesn't care. He said he's lazy, he's most likely not going to do any work, and asks for a deadline extension anyway. He uses laziness as an alignment indicative, even though he did spend time to try and hunt, or at least, going through the motions. Once pressed, he diminished his own contribution to hipfired reads that don't mean anything, although he was technically looking for scum - hence, he wanted to appear like town. That was his goal. He didn't come out with a cult, he achieved what he wanted, an entrance in this game by appearing to do townie things, going through the motions, and the actual outcome of his analysis doesn't matter, it doesn't need to come to a conclusion, we just need to be assured that he's done something.

Saying "Read my hunting as coming from a lazy PoV" is the equivalent to revoking the "you don't have any actual scum" PoV, while maintaining the idea that he was actually hunting. He wasn't. He just wanted to appear like he was. He doesn't care who scum is.

[insomnia]

Once pressed,

he diminished his own contribution to hipfired reads that don't mean anything

, although he was technically looking for scum

And he still preaches Enigma is scum as if he played the game from the get-go or has a red check on him or some sort. Does not compute.

[insomnia]

Like Klick is a dude who seems to play terribly but playing terrible town, not terrible scum.

How do you know he’s playing terrible?

[insomnia]

We don’t have to.

[insomnia]

Hammer?

[insomnia]

VOTE: RCEnigma

[insomnia]

Ame <3

[insomnia]

Should I lolhammer

Absolutely not, me and Ame are going to have to talk and bound our souls together before we are being separated by the night phase.

[insomnia]

TvA, Mini something something, I was scum reading bob and joges when i repped in but lost it because i was being pushed

Some off site game that is about to finish and I’ll quote it as soon as it’s over

Some more off site games that I’ve finished and had 2 out of 3 wolves PoE’d on Day One

[insomnia]

It’s more of a “let’s get this over done with already” type of thing.

[insomnia]

I wanted Gif but nobody wants it so I’m just willing to lynch anyone.

[insomnia]

VOTE: GIF

[insomnia]

No flip?

[insomnia]

Oh nvm i’m blind

[insomnia]

No antichrist lynch is a win for me

[insomnia]

I know I’m getting culted, but Korina finds it hard to lock it in, because I’m unpredictable.

[insomnia]

OK so we just lynch you tomorrow then?

As long as I get culted, shit, idc

[insomnia]

Noice.

Hehe we all know who’s getting culted hahaha...

[insomnia]

Korina i’m so embarrassed by that post can you ask jingle to delete it? I feel as though people will call me out on it

[insomnia]

Oh

[insomnia]

I thought slaxx was anarchist monkaS